Trying to parse the scriptures about the End

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Satan loosed at the end of the 'thousand years'....end of the 'church age'.

Hi Heleadethme,

(TURNed out to be way long, don't need answers, just please reflect a little) and if 

you CAN believe that that millennium is NOW, you can believe it is later 
 

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,


We absolutely know  the first part of your response is EXACTLY what is going to happen.  We know it is truth.  


BUT then for some reason comes
'.end of the 'church age'.  Where does this come from?   What does the church have to do with WHEN SATAN is bound and WHEN he is loosed?  

CAN we Please wait to BRING 'THE CHURCH'  into the conversation when SCRIPTURE dictates that it should be and NOT  before then to see if we at least get this part right?  If not, and you want the 'church' to have some bearing upon this part NOW,  then please give the scripture and its relation and we will add that straight away.     



Till then, let's see if scripture NARROWs it down a little bit more.  Remember  we are told 

 

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the SPIRIT OF HIS MOUTH and shall destroy with the BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING 

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

BUT WHAT ELSE DO WE KNOW ABOUT HIS COMING?

 

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

 

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Now I have given Scripture that shows 

Satans working come BEFORE Christs return

That at Christs return, as Christ descends,  Satan will be 'destroyed aka bound and shut up'  by AN ANGEL  for 1000 years

ALSO at Christs return those who ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN WILL BE CHANGED and be forever with the Lord
WHERE ARE THEY?

 

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.



We should be able to go SEE THIS right now, right?  

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Zechariah 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

This is not a figure of speech.  It is not a spiritual happening.  It is not allegory.  This is JUST FACT.  

Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Zechariah 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

Zechariah 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

Zechariah 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

 

Instead of pointing out what I believe, I am going to ask you to tell me WHEN these events are to take place as they are events the prohibit me from believing we are in the Millennium (Lords Day/1000 years) now
and why I do believe it is yet future.  




 

Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Isaiah 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

Isaiah 61:4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.

 Isaiah 61:5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.

Isaiah 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

Isaiah 61:7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.

Isaiah 61:8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

Isaiah 61:9 And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed.

Isaiah 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

Isaiah 61:11 For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

Isaiah 62:1 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.

Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

Isaiah 62:3 Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.

Isaiah 62:4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.

Isaiah 62:5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

 



 

Isaiah 66:12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.

Isaiah 66:13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.

Isaiah 66:14 And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.

Isaiah 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Isaiah 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Isaiah 66:18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

Isaiah 66:19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

Isaiah 66:20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

Isaiah 66:21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.



 

Ezekiel 46:1 Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

Ezekiel 46:2 And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the gate shall not be shut until the evening.

Ezekiel 46:3 Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths and in the new moons.

Ezekiel 46:4 And the burnt offering that the prince shall offer unto the LORD in the sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish.

Ezekiel 46:5 And the meat offering shall be an ephah for a ram, and the meat offering for the lambs as he shall be able to give, and an hin of oil to an ephah.

Ezekiel 46:6 And in the day of the new moon it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish.

Ezekiel 46:7 And he shall prepare a meat offering, an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and for the lambs according as his hand shall attain unto, and an hin of oil to an ephah.

Ezekiel 46:8 And when the prince shall enter, he shall go in by the way of the porch of that gate, and he shall go forth by the way thereof.

Ezekiel 46:9 But when the people of the land shall come before the LORD in the solemn feasts, he that entereth in by the way of the north gate to worship shall go out by the way of the south gate; and he that entereth by the way of the south gate shall go forth by the way of the north gate: he shall not return by the way of the gate whereby he came in, but shall go forth over against it.

Ezekiel 46:10 And the prince in the midst of them, when they go in, shall go in; and when they go forth, shall go forth.

Ezekiel 46:11 And in the feasts and in the solemnities the meat offering shall be an ephah to a bullock, and an ephah to a ram, and to the lambs as he is able to give, and an hin of oil to an ephah.

 

Ezekiel 47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.

Ezekiel 47:2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.

Ezekiel 47:3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ankles.

Ezekiel 47:4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.

Ezekiel 47:5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.

Ezekiel 47:6 And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.

Ezekiel 47:7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.

Ezekiel 47:8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.

Ezekiel 47:9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

Ezekiel 47:10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.

Ezekiel 47:11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

Ezekiel 47:12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

Ezekiel 47:13 Thus saith the Lord GOD; This shall be the border, whereby ye shall inherit the land according to the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph shall have two portions.

 

Ezekiel 48:19 And they that serve the city shall serve it out of all the tribes of Israel.

Ezekiel 48:20 All the oblation shall be five and twenty thousand by five and twenty thousand: ye shall offer the holy oblation foursquare, with the possession of the city.

Ezekiel 48:21 And the residue shall be for the prince, on the one side and on the other of the holy oblation, and of the possession of the city, over against the five and twenty thousand of the oblation toward the east border, and westward over against the five and twenty thousand toward the west border, over against the portions for the prince: and it shall be the holy oblation; and the sanctuary of the house shall be in the midst thereof.

Ezekiel 48:22 Moreover from the possession of the Levites, and from the possession of the city, being in the midst of that which is the prince's, between the border of Judah and the border of Benjamin, shall be for the prince.

Ezekiel 48:23 As for the rest of the tribes, from the east side unto the west side, Benjamin shall have a portion.

Ezekiel 48:24 And by the border of Benjamin, from the east side unto the west side, Simeon shall have a portion.

Ezekiel 48:25 And by the border of Simeon, from the east side unto the west side, Issachar a portion.

Ezekiel 48:26 And by the border of Issachar, from the east side unto the west side, Zebulun a portion.

Ezekiel 48:27 And by the border of Zebulun, from the east side unto the west side, Gad a portion.

Ezekiel 48:28 And by the border of Gad, at the south side southward, the border shall be even from Tamar unto the waters of strife in Kadesh, and to the river toward the great sea.

Ezekiel 48:29 This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 48:30 And these are the goings out of the city on the north side, four thousand and five hundred measures.

Ezekiel 48:31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.

Ezekiel 48:32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.

Ezekiel 48:33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.

Ezekiel 48:34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.

Ezekiel 48:35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there.


What we need is a topic just on 'scriptures that pertains to events during the Millennium'.  I think there are tons more.  I think we could get a really clear view.         

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Zechariah 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

Zechariah 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Zechariah 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Zechariah 14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

 

 

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ A THOUSAND YEARS (1)

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until THE THOUSAND YEARS (2)  were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him A THOUSAND YEARS (3)

Revelation 20:7 And when THE THOUSAND YEARS (4) are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

[Sister]

On 6/11/2021 at 1:58 AM, Heleadethme said:

No way can we consider that the Kingship of Jesus Christ has been deferred to a later date.  He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings right now!

Heleadethme

Matthew 22:44   The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

The world is currently ruled by Satan and his wicked men.  All his men are in the high places that govern over the nations.  Corruption over the earth continues and escalates, but will come to an end.  All these corrupted leaders will be removed at the 2nd Coming and all the kingdoms of the earth will be given to the saints of the Most High who will rule over the nations with Christ their Lord. 

Can you see the purpose of the 1000 years coming?  Can you see the frustration the current leaders will experience?  Can you feel the joy of the saints and the peoples of the earth when Satan is locked away for a time and his kingdom stripped off him?  All his high ones, the men of this earth will be made low or destroyed, and put to  open shame.

Christ will be King of Kings and Lord of Lords over the whole earth.  He is our King now, and our Lord, but there comes a time when all will know him, and all the survivors will bow down to him after he has served justice unto the nations.

So Christ's enemies are not put under his feet yet, but it is coming soon.  Of course God can crush them now if he wants, but all must be fulfilled first and go according to plan.  And this is God's plan - to put his Son Jesus in charge of his Kingdom on earth to rule over the nations with a rod of iron.  He will rule in righteousness, and who ever does not obey will be quickly dealt with and will go without.  They will not prosper.  The new generations to be born have to learn also, but one thing for sure, they cannot make war until the thousand years are over because their men are not in top positions ruling over the earth and deceiving like they do now.

 

 

 

 

[Justin Adams]

7 hours ago, Sister said:

The world is currently ruled by Satan and his wicked men. 

Quite wrong. Yeshua has ALL put under His feet. He is in charge of it all.

When the NT says the 'ruler of this world' they are talking colloquially about the other nations being ruled; "the world" as they saw it and not Israel. 

Edited June 13, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

 

Can't help but think that's what the disciples were feeling when their leader was captured and crucified.  We are to walk by faith, not by sight....judging things by outward appearances can lead us astray.

If Jesus has already begun to reign and we are in what is called the 1000 year reign right now, it has a domino effect on some other things that we may not be looking at in quite the right way.  Doesn't hurt to at least keep it in mind and see what contradictions it resolves or other understandings it may tweek or correct.  We want the key to actually fit the lock neatly, not force the lock by ignoring or twisting things to try and make them fit.

"After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. 10They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”"

"On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south. 5You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him."

Tell me how we should see this in "may not be looking at in quite the right way".

And when did this happen and where is it recorded?

"On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south."

And what of the dozen other sayings about the return of Jesus of which we see zero evidence? I know He's the King and Creator and the Mighty God and always has been. Jesus came to earth, fulfilled His Father's will and left. I wish He was here. I 40 years of looking I can't find His physical presence on earth anywhere. No one records the dozens of prophecies of His presence on earth as occurred or extant.

You say He's ruling on earth? Then where is the evidence?

 

[Heleadethme]

14 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Here is my understanding of the end times:

I Thessalonians 5:1 "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you."

I Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

We know this “perfectly” because it is written in God's Word and Paul has told us in many of his writings that when Christ returns it will be at the last trump. The day of Christ's return is called "the day of the Lord.”  On this day, Jesus Christ will come to earth and establish His kingdom for a period of one thousand years (millennium).

I Thessalonians 5:3 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

This "travail" is mentioned in Matthew 24 and Mark 13, as well as other places, and Jesus called it "labor pains” because when it happens, the travail will be exactly as the contractions of a woman in labor. You will know ahead of time with plenty of warning, and as each prophetic event comes, those “pains” or events of these end times get closer and closer until the ones at the end are in rapid order, coming at the same time.

I Thessalonians 5:4 "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."

I Thessalonians 5:5 "Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness."

. . .

2 Peter 3:6  Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

This present earth age is going to end at the Great White Throne Judgment following the Millennium and we will have a new heaven and a new earth age (Rev. 21:1), the third and final one which will be for all eternity. 
 

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

A thousand years to us is simply one day with Him.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Again, we look forward to the purifying effect of God's presence, the consuming fire, which fire purifies gold and completely destroys chaff, straw and stubble.  —2 Pet. 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. (world #3)

There is a new heaven and a new earth coming.

I know that is the conventional belief of the modern church......however those scriptures tell us the wrath which destroys this present world and ushers in the new heavens/earth happen at the coming of the Lord.  They contradict the idea of a time limited reign after His coming....because after His coming there is the new heavens/earth....eternity, not a further 1000 years of time - and we are forever with the Lord. 

Mentioning "a thousand years is like a day" is EXPLAINING the longsuffering of the Lord in not bringing His wrath immediately, which period of longsuffering we are in now...a thousand years.  Also it says in the OT that the Lord will forgive sins to a "thousand" generations.....it's very possible what Rev says about Jesus ruling a thousand years is borrowing or building on that same allegory that already existed in those two scriptures before John's vision.  Because we are in the age of His longsuffering now....we are in the age of Him forgiving sins now.  1000 years of longsuffering and forgiving sins and Jesus reigning...an allegorical 1000 years that is just painting a picture of a very long time that will reach an end some day.

 

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

"After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. 10They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”"

"On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south. 5You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him."

Tell me how we should see this in "may not be looking at in quite the right way".

And when did this happen and where is it recorded?

"On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south."

And what of the dozen other sayings about the return of Jesus of which we see zero evidence? I know He's the King and Creator and the Mighty God and always has been. Jesus came to earth, fulfilled His Father's will and left. I wish He was here. I 40 years of looking I can't find His physical presence on earth anywhere. No one records the dozens of prophecies of His presence on earth as occurred or extant.

You say He's ruling on earth? Then where is the evidence?

 

First of all we need to be willing to lay down our preconceptions and be willing to look at this honestly and objectively, with fresh eyes.  When we bring our preconceptions to the study table it literally blinds us to what scripture actually is quite clearly saying...I know this from my own experience of it.  (These things are not “Christ and Him crucified” that we need to defend with our lives if need be....it’s important to understand, yes, but not necessary for salvation or cause for dividing from one another in itself.)

Scripture says He must reign until all His enemies are put under His feet.  Scripture also says all things have been put under His feet, He has the rule, authority and power now, but just that we do not yet "see" all things put under.  So He IS ruling and reigning now and in process of enforcing His rule over His rebellious enemies.  When He comes He will FINISH that work in righteousness....it will be a short work....His wrath poured out on His enemies and throughly vanquishing them.....at which time it will be "seen" that all things have been put under Him.

 

1Co 15:23-27

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (“finishing the work” and cutting it short at His coming)

For he must reign (in progress at the time of writing and still now), till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

This passage clearly says the coming of Christ ushers in the end (no mention of a “millennial reign”)  We are in the “thousand years” right now.  All these scriptures I’m posting used to confuse me when I used to believe there would be a millennial reign after His coming...now they are all calm and settling neatly in place , no contradiction and no confusion.  The key fitting the lock with ease, no need to force it.

I'm just talking about the millennial reign here.  As to the rest, I'm wondering about the idea that a lot has been fulfilled to the Jew first, and then to the Gentile.  Considering whether prophecies can be repeating cycles in a way... what we might term partial fulfillments until the last cycle.   Where Solomon wrote "What has been will be again." That would explain why we still see a lot of loose ends and details not having been fulfilled yet.  I believe the church is still waiting for the coming of the Lord, the blessed hope of His coming and our redemption.  Perhaps the wrath was only fulfilled in type to Israel/Jews in 70 AD. 

[Justin Adams]

2 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Perhaps the wrath was only fulfilled in type to Israel/Jews in 70 AD. 

Yes and since then the world has known some growing pains but many Christian scientists and doctors over the years have made leaps and bounds. He has guided man to great inventions and discoveries.

Many good men have died for our freedoms. It insults them and the Lord to say otherwise. 

It is His World and He is definitely in charge. Those that refuse to see it and proselytize bad things are to be pitied. It is up to us whether we live in victory or cower in the corner pretending a false eschatology will somehow relieve us. It is ours for the taking.

"All the is necessary for evil to abound is for good men to do nothing".

[Selah7]

2 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

I know that is the conventional belief of the modern church......however those scriptures tell us the wrath which destroys this present world and ushers in the new heavens/earth happen at the coming of the Lord.  They contradict the idea of a time limited reign after His coming....because after His coming there is the new heavens/earth....eternity, not a further 1000 years of time - and we are forever with the Lord. 

Mentioning "a thousand years is like a day" is EXPLAINING the longsuffering of the Lord in not bringing His wrath immediately, which period of longsuffering we are in now...a thousand years.  Also it says in the OT that the Lord will forgive sins to a "thousand" generations.....it's very possible what Rev says about Jesus ruling a thousand years is borrowing or building on that same allegory that already existed in those two scriptures before John's vision.  Because we are in the age of His longsuffering now....we are in the age of Him forgiving sins now.  1000 years of longsuffering and forgiving sins and Jesus reigning...an allegorical 1000 years that is just painting a picture of a very long time that will reach an end some day.

 

Hey there again 

When Christ returns, we will all be changed into our spiritual bodies; the Millennium (next 1000 years) will be a spiritual (not flesh and blood) existence for all of us, both the saved and the dead. Some of us who have already accepted and truly know Christ as our Lord and Savior will receive eternal life at His return (the first resurrection).

Have you read Rev. 20? 

 

[WilliamL]

On 6/11/2021 at 6:20 AM, Heleadethme said:

The promise to David was spiritual, not physical as such...it was a Messianic prophecy whose kingdom is NOT OF THIS WORLD.

Then Zechariah is a false prophet for claiming this:

Zechariah 14:3 Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. 4 On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east... 9 And the LORD will be King over all the earth; on that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one. ... 16 Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them.

Nothing could be more literally earthly here: earthly Mount of Olives, earthly Jerusalem, and an earthly King. (Which things do not at all deny any part of His heavenly reign.)

Edited June 13, 2021 by WilliamL
spanking

[WilliamL]

On 6/11/2021 at 12:07 PM, abcdef said:

Authority is rule.

No, authority (exousia; lit. power) is only the capacity to rule. That capacity can be manifested fully, partially, or not at all. Jesus has never manifested that capacity over human governments since His ascension, at least to any great extent. He supports His followers according to His will, but has not overthrown Satan's earthly dominion as of yet.

On 6/11/2021 at 12:07 PM, abcdef said:

He won't be returning to this planet.

See my post above, because it applies to you.