OneLight Posted September 24, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 24, 2007 I have to wonder if it really matters what people think about the timing of Jesus return? He is coming! Jesus told us to watch and be ready. He did not tell us to argue about the timing. Does it really matter when? snip ... Matthew 16 When evening comes, you say, 'It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,' and in the morning, 'Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.' You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. Couple of things yzf-r1, you have to study all the prophesies in order to try and make a time-line, not just the New Testament. If you are trying to make a point, you should not take scripture out of context. Matthew 16:1-4 is as follows: "Then the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and testing Him asked that He would show them a sign from heaven. He answered and said to them, "When it is evening you say, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted September 25, 2007 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted September 25, 2007 yzf-r1 posted, the next event on the prophetic time table is the catching away of the Church, then the antichirst is revealed to the world Can you back that up with bibical proof?.......I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted September 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2007 yzf-r1 First, please accept my apology for assuming that you are not studying the OT, for you were stating a time table that most state, which is from the New Testament. I see nothing about the destruction of Damascus, for example. I would be interested in seeing how you lay out your timetable. Please share. Secondly, I see so many people, today, stating that this preacher or that preacher is never wrong. They are human and are not perfect, therefore, they can be wrong. This is not to dispute anything about the two you mentioned, for I know nothing about either of them. I study the Bible and follow no man, even though I read others thoughts and see if they are creditable or not. Thirdly, Jesus was making a point to the Pharisees and Sadducees, that they needed a sign in order to believe, not that they needed to know when He would be back, as you referenced in your previous post. Being ready does not require that one knows when He will return. I agree that we need to watch the signs, for Jesus knows that we may "fall asleep" and not be ready. Again, His point was to be ready, not to know when. Please understand that I am not attacking anyone for wanting to know, for this argument has been going on since Jesus first made these statements, even into toady. If it were for us to understand, He would of clearly stated it would be pre, mid or post, but He did not. He did, however, instruct us to know the season of His return. Think about it ... if it were totally clear, then many would sit back and say that there was enough time, not to worry. This is not what Jesus had in mind for us. He wants us to be ready always, as you agreed. Is it not good enough to know that He will return for us? Why bicker about the timing? This only causes division among the real Church, for one group states "I'm Pre-Trib" and another states "I'm Mid-Trid" and another claims "I'm Post-Trib", dividing us along those grounds. Christ did not want a divided body. This leads me to believe that it is unimportant as to the timing. Instead, Glorify the Lord that He will return and leave the timing to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted September 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2007 Why bicker about the timing? This only causes division among the real Church, for one group states "I'm Pre-Trib" and another states "I'm Mid-Trid" and another claims "I'm Post-Trib", dividing us along those grounds. agreed, and I make a point of avoiding the issue in general small group sessions, but this is an eschatology sub forum, so I believe it's appropriate here, and I believe we can know the "dispensations of the times" Yes, this is the place, ain't it! Sorry ... I'd still like to see a time line, if you have one prepared. I have studied a little, but not to the extent as to being able to put things in a time line, so one would be nice to see. If you do not have one, maybe you could point me to a site that does. As I mentioned, I rarely study outside of the Bible. I do, however, have a concordance and a Greek and Hebrew dictionary. That's about the extent of my library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted September 25, 2007 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted September 25, 2007 yzf-r1. In post#214, you stated. the next event on the prophetic time table is the catching away of the Church, then the antichirst is revealed to the world, You could not provide any scipture to to give a conslusive answer, which isn't surprising, because no one else has been able to. so I will jolt your memory from 2thessalonians, 1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; NOTE. for that day shall not come except ther come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. In post # 214 you are saying the church will be raptured first and then the anti christ will be revealed to the world. Can't have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted September 25, 2007 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted September 25, 2007 yzf-r1, I don't want URLs about pre trib, there are many of them. What I want from you is an answer to my question which requires a simple one word answer. Which is first, the revealing of the anti christ, publically, or the rapture of the church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted September 26, 2007 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted September 26, 2007 Reply from yzf-r1, the Church, and the special ministry of the Holy Spirit to the Church, is "taken out of the way" before the "lawless one" is revealed Well, the a/c is going to have a field day, is he not? because he has only the unbelievers to contend with and they are going to experince God's wrath whether they take the mark or not. The believers and and the saints went in the rapture. So all of the warnings from the Lord for His people to be ready are wasted, because they are home and hosed anyway. God's warnings can't be for the unsaved, because they don't believe there is a Holy God anyway. That puts an end to the trib saints that were beheaded because thae did not worship the beast or his image and did not receive the mark on their foreheand or hands...........Rev 20:4. No way. I ask you how did these saints miss the rapture bus......Rev.13:7......And it was given to him, (a/c ) to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authototy was given to him over evry tribe and people and tongue and nation.......Hard to overcome the saints if there not there. In your skewed exegesis, you have the church, the holy spirit and the saints raptured or taken away before the appearance of the a/c, but the bible says, there will be saints during the trib, who are martyred........please explain......your own explanation, not someone elses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraught Posted September 26, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,741 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 28 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/30/1959 Share Posted September 26, 2007 another interesting statement: He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches, used no less than 7 times in Revelation 1-3 and note how the same phrase is truncated when the Chruch is gone, in Revelation 13:9 He who has an ear, let him hear. anyone have a reponse to this? it's always ignored, but I find it to be a beautiful confirmation that the Church is not appointed to the judgments described in Revelation i think that is a leap. that phrase is also used in ezekiel 44:5 . . . mark well, see with your eyes and hear with your ears all that i say to you concerning all the statutes of the house of the LORD and concerning all its laws; and mark well the entrance of the house, with all exits of the sanctuary. and besides that, there's nothing to affirm that revelation is necessarily chronological. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraught Posted September 26, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,741 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 28 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/30/1959 Share Posted September 26, 2007 I applaud your passion for the impact of false teaching to the Church, I just wanted to correct the names so that your readers were clear on which position you were advocating. did you dig that up from 3 or 4 pages back? yep, the pre-Tribulation rapture of the Church is such "evil doctrine" of course, the early church believed Christ could return at any time, a motivation for holy living, but let's ignore that and Christ could Return at Any Time - that is nothing to with pre-trib rapture theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted September 26, 2007 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted September 26, 2007 yzf-r1, I'll rephrase, this for you, because our lingo is different to anyone elses.. The believers and and the saints went in the rapture. So all of the warnings from the Lord for His people to be ready are wasted, because they are home and hosed anyway. What was the point of Christ warning his saints about the terrible times ahead, if He is going to rapture them before the terrible times arrive. My last question>>>>If the holy spirit leaves the earth at the beginning of the trib, how could the multitudes be saved in the tribulation? No one can be saved apart from the drawing and the convicting influence of the Holy Spirit of God. How could the 144,00 jews evangalise the world in seven years, without the power and prescence of the H/S when the church has been unsuccessful in two thousand years with the H/S of God. The bible clearly teaches in Mark.13 :9-11 that the christians in the trib will have the H/S indwelling in them. Pre trib rapture is a lot of double talk and.... as Toni said, hogwash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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