Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[HAZARD]

39 minutes ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

 

What you did write is not true.  JESUS was saying to the disciples about the end of the times and His return, the disciples of the Lord needed not to worry with this time of end, in which we are living now. (1John 2:18) 18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. And Paul said: (2Thes.2:3-5&9)  3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;   4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.   5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?   9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.  And JESUS revealed: (Rev.13:11-14) 

11 And I beheld another Beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a Dragon.  (He is the Red Dragon)

Oseas

I did not write this nor did I say it. Scripture clearly says it. 

 

1 Cor. 15:50-52, V. 50, Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 
    51, Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 
    52, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Israel is whomever believes in Christ

Truth. It is really too bad so many here miss this. "If you are in Christ then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the Promise."

No difference between the 'church' and 'Israel' as all are the children of Faith.

Either we are the seed of Abraham or we are not. If we are not the seed of Abraham then the promises are not ours and we are not heirs.

[Guest shiloh357]

10 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,
So...4, I see you have God all figured out. In your estimation, He can only deal with one chosen people at a time, first the Jew, then the Church, then the Jew again. 

In terms of His prophetic plan, yes.   God has a prophetic future for both the Church and Israel.   And God deals with those separately.   

Why is it that only 144,000 of the Tribes of Israel are sealed if ALL believers are in the Tribulation.   Don't you think if the Church were in the Tribulation that God would had 144,000 of every tribe and tongue sealed instead of 144,000 Israelites?

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You say God stopped dealing with the Jews at Pentecost. If that is true, then who was God dealing with in 70 AD at the destruction of the Temple? If that is true, who has God been provoking to jealousy through the salvation of the Gentiles. If that is true, then how do you explain the resurrection of the nation of Israel and the Israelites returning to their land. All these took place in the "Age of Grace" or "the Church Age".

God stopped the prophetic clock with regard to Israel.  The tribulation is the 70th week and it is when God will deal with Israel again leading up the millennium when all of God's promises to Israel will be fulfilled.

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You said, "He is not going to deal with both at once." Read your Bible!

Sounds to me like you neither know God nor the Holy Scriptures as well as you think. But you do have the pre-trib system down pretty good. Read your Bible! Read your Bible! Read your Bible!

 

Sojo is pretty skilled in Scripture and to suggest that He is not saved and doesn't know the Bible simply because he doesn't share your view of prophecy demonstrates that you don't have a cogent, intelligent argument. 

 

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All praise, honour, and glory be unto ourLord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

This is a reproach after your attack on Sojo.

[Guest shiloh357]

5 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Truth. It is really too bad so many here miss this. "If you are in Christ then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the Promise."

No difference between the 'church' and 'Israel' as all are the children of Faith.

Either we are the seed of Abraham or we are not. If we are not the seed of Abraham then the promises are not ours and we are not heirs.

No, it is not truth.  The Bible says no such thing.   Israel is Israel and the Church is the Church.   "Israel" is used 71 times in the NT and is never applied to the Church.  It is always referring to the ethnic Israelite people.

[Last Daze]

5 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

- If the first 14 Judgments aren't God's wrath as you claim

Here's a word for you, tribujudgwrath.  Since you won't distinguish between tribulation, judgment, and wrath, why even pretend that they're different words?

• Judgment - a determination that is made, usually with a consequence.
• Wrath - anger

God's wrath comes after His judgments are ignored.

[Diaste]

5 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

No, it is not truth.  The Bible says no such thing.   Israel is Israel and the Church is the Church.   "Israel" is used 71 times in the NT and is never applied to the Church.  It is always referring to the ethnic Israelite people.

All that proves is you still don't understand Paul's teaching on the matter, the identity of Israel, the seed of Abraham, and just who those in Christ really are.

I cannot give you this understanding. Search it out. Paul can show you the way.

[Montana Marv]

10 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

MM, we can know what God has revealed to us. Paul lets us know that the day of the Lord, which is initiated by Christ's arrival at His coming, will catch the unbelieving world like a thief in the night catches a homeowner unawares. However, he clearly says that the day will not catch the believer like a thief, for we are not in darkness that the day should overtake us as a thief. In fact, Jesus gives us signs to look for which will indicate that the day is approaching.  The abomination of desolation will indicate that the unprecedented persecution has commenced. The persecution shall be most severe and many shall fall away from the faith. The celestial sign of the sun, moon, and stars going dark coupled with a mega earthquake will indicate that the unprecedented persecution is over and that the remaining believers should look up and lift up their heads for their redemption draweth nigh.

What you present is an understanding that is contrary to the very harmony of the Scriptures. Christ has told us, His friends, what He is going to do. Although we are not told, and therefore do not know the day nor hour, the times and seasons are fully within the present level of God's revelation to us. He has told us to watch and what to watch for. Knowing this we look for Jesus, our blessed hope, who shall appear in glory for all the world to see.

Hallelujah

 

Christ has told us that only God the Father knows when the Rapture will occur.. So it's exact time is not in Scripture.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was made flesh. And yet the Word, Jesus Christ, did not have this  time of the mystery revealed to him by the Father.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, Davida said:

That is called Replacement Theology & it misses the mark. 

Replacement theology is where the church REPLACES Israel as the new people of God, stating Israel has lost favor and God created a new people.

N2 is saying true Israel is all the followers of Christ. 

Not the same thing. 

[Diaste]

4 minutes ago, Davida said:

No All people who believe in Christ are not Israel. 

The apostle Paul says different. Perhaps you should go inquire of him. Find the truth. Israel is the truth, Gentiles were adopted into Israel, without Israel there is no adoption and we are without a home.

Why?

Because the promise comes through Israel from the one who was given the promise first, Abraham. 

God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel and all Gentiles are adopted sons into this family of faith, and this has nothing to do with national borders or bloodlines.

Paul proves all this, search for it, Paul will show you the way.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

All that proves is you still don't understand Paul's teaching on the matter, the identity of Israel, the seed of Abraham, and just who those in Christ really are.

I cannot give you this understanding. Search it out. Paul can show you the way.

You cannot give me that understanding because it is not in Scripture.  

Paul's teaching about Abraham had nothing to do with the identity of Israel.  Gentiles are the seed Abraham by faith.  That doesn't make them "Israel."  "Israel" is 100% of the time in the NT always, without exception, an ethnic term.  It is never spiritualized to refer to Gentile believers.   And that is the only correct and Christian way to see it.