Wine and Ancient Israel

[Guest Zayit]

Did a little study that may help some:

The vow of a Nazerite prevented him from having any products of the fruit of the vine. This is very explicite:

Nu 6:3

He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, ( Now it defines them)

and shall drink no vinegar of wine,

or vinegar of strong drink,

neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes,

nor eat moist grapes,

or dried.

Let's examine each one:

vinegar of wine,

Vinegar = Chomets Which is from the root of Chametz which Jews know is leaven and what we must put out of our houses at Passover time. Here it would be the fermentation -yeast that forms in grape juice.

Wine -Yayin - from an unused root meaning to effervesce

This means to me that this is not only fermented juice but what we would call Champagne today, it has bubbles in it

vinegar of strong drink

here we already know that 'vinegar' means fermented

Drink-Shekar- strong drink, intoxicating drink, fermented or intoxicating liquor

So this sounds like regular wine to me

liquor of grapes

Liquor - Mishrah- from the loosening ( or squezing) of the grapes, in other words the juice

So this is the juice of grapes, or grape juice

moist grapes

These are the fresh grapes, picked but un-squeezed, what we would call , table grapes.

dried

What we call , raisins ( or in California, the Rasinettes! )

So lets read it now with that understanding:

Nu 6:3

He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, ( Now it defines them)

and shall drink no Champagne, or wine, neither shall he drink any Grape Juice,

nor eat grapes, or raisins.

[Remnantrob]

Mar 7:15  There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

Mar 7:16  If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

Mar 7:17  And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

Mar 7:18  And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

Mar 7:19  Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

Mar 7:20  And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

Mar 7:21  For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

Mar 7:22  Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

Mar 7:23  All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

If the wine drinking causes a person to commit any of the above offenses then this wine-drinking has become sin. Otherwise, it is not sin to simply drink wine.

Those with a propensity for addiction are wise to avoid wine altogether.

As a matter of fact, I choose not to drink alcohol at all, except for on very rare occasions (glass of champagne at a wedding, etc.) so that I don't offend a host or come off as "holier than thou."

I find that a lot of Christians fall into the extremes on this issue.

Either they are way too lenient and drink too much. Or, they are so anti-alcohol that if they hear about a Christian enjoying a drink they brand them a sinner and hypocrite.

Remember:

Rom 14:17  For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If God expects us to be a peculiar people and not of this world why worry about whether someone thinks that you "think" that you are "Holier than thou"?  This is one extreme I'm in support of 100%.  Wine/Alcohol is considered a drug and even a little bit doesn't take away from that fact.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You would not have enjoyed the wedding at Cana in Galilee or approved of the behaviour of one of the younger guests:

On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. Jesus and his disciples had likewise been invited to the celebration. At a certain point in time the wine ran out, and Jesus' mother told him, "They have no more wine." Jesus replied, "Woman, how does this concern of yours involve me? My hour has not yet come." His mother instructed those waiting on table, "Do whatever he tells you." As prescribed for Jewish ceremonial washings, there were at hand six stone jars, each one holding fifteen to twenty gallons. "Fill those jars with water, "Jesus ordered, at which they filled them to the brim. "Now," he said, "draw some out and take it to the waiter in charge." They did as he instructed them. The waiter in charge tasted the water made wine, without knowing where it had come from; only the waiters knew, since they had drawn the water. Then the waiter in charge called the groom over and remarked to him, "People usually serve the choice wine first; then when the guests have been drinking awhile, a lesser vintage. What you have done is keep the choice wine until now." Jesus performed the first of his signs at Cana in Galilee. Thus did he reveal his glory, and the disciples believed in him. (Jn 2, 1.11)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So are you saying that those who say that they don't get drunk while they drink have a power of their own to do so? I know we can do all things through Christ but why would he allow us to indulge in something not healthy and then give us the power to not be overwhelmed by this same thing that is not good for us in the first place? Oh well...

[Remnantrob]

Did a little study that may help some:

The vow of a Nazerite prevented him from having any products of the fruit of the vine. This is very explicite:

 

Nu 6:3

He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, ( Now it defines them)

and shall drink no vinegar of wine,

or vinegar of strong drink,

neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes,

nor eat moist grapes,

or dried. 

Let's examine each one:

vinegar of wine,

Vinegar = Chomets Which is from the root of Chametz which Jews know is leaven and what we must put out of our houses at Passover time. Here it would be the fermentation -yeast that forms in grape juice.

Wine -Yayin - from an unused root meaning to effervesce

This means to me that this is not only fermented juice but what we would call Champagne today, it has bubbles in it

vinegar of strong drink

here we already know that 'vinegar' means fermented

Drink-Shekar- strong drink, intoxicating drink, fermented or intoxicating liquor

So this sounds like regular wine to me

liquor of grapes

Liquor - Mishrah- from the loosening ( or squezing) of the grapes, in other words the juice

So this is the juice of grapes, or grape juice

moist grapes

These are the fresh grapes, picked but un-squeezed, what we would call , table grapes. 

dried

What we call , raisins ( or in California, the Rasinettes! )

 

So lets read it now with that understanding:

Nu 6:3

He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, ( Now it defines them)

and shall drink no Champagne, or wine, neither shall he drink any Grape Juice,

nor eat grapes, or raisins. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey Zayit, It just dawned on me (silly me) ) that Jesus was a Nazarene and not a Nazarite. But a question came to my head. What was the purpose of God allowing people to take these vows? And why tell them to stay away from wine/strong drink? Thanks for your response in advance. God bless.

[Guest Mr.E]

I'll not say that drinking wine is a sin. However, i will say that i, personally, if i drank even a sip of wine, would feel guilty just the same as if i stole something.

When people say that it is ok to drink alchohol (beer for example) as long as you keep it under control, i have to wonder what they think about smoking cigarrettes or even marijuana in a country where it is not illegal.

I feel, and this is just my personal feeling, that drinking alchohol and the like is a huge blow to your testimony with non-believers, as it is associated with drunkeness etc etc. One could also say taking pain killers is associated with morphine addiction, but if we are serious for a moment, i think we will realize a large difference.

Just my oppinion.

-E

[MrLuke]

I feel, and this is just my personal feeling, that drinking alchohol and the like is a huge blow to your testimony with non-believers, as it is associated with drunkeness etc etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well in my case (and with my dad), being able to go out and have a drink with unbelievers is a big help. It helps them see that we, as Christians, are still people like them that they can relate to.

Although, with our family running pubs for the last 5 years, we did get some funny looks *cough* from people at our old church (we changed later on). But pubs are a great mission ground to spread your faith with people who are usually in the pit of life and need God's love in their lives, and being a bartender, you can help be the person to tell them! I've shared my faith many a time with random people that come to buy drinks from me, and I pray that the Lord will give me opportunity to continue to do just that !

[Iryssa]

I'll not say that drinking wine is a sin.  However, i will say that i, personally, if i drank even a sip of wine, would feel guilty just the same as if i stole something. 

When people say that it is ok to drink alchohol (beer for example) as long as you keep it under control, i have to wonder what they think about smoking cigarrettes or even marijuana in a country where it is not illegal. 

I feel, and this is just my personal feeling, that drinking alchohol and the like is a huge blow to your testimony with non-believers, as it is associated with drunkeness etc etc.  One could also say taking pain killers is associated with morphine addiction, but if we are serious for a moment, i think we will realize a large difference.

Just my oppinion. 

-E

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can totally understand someone having personal convictions about drinking; it doesn't bother me, and I am happy to abstain from drink when I am around said people to keep them from stumbling. In answer to your question about smoking and drugs, though, I do look on them as wrong, as they are detrimental to one's health and are very addictive. Studies have shown that a certain amount of wine a day actually benefits one's health. One website says "Recent studies show that drinking one glass of red wine every day may have certain health benefits. Research indicates that moderate red wine consumption may help protect against certain cancers and heart disease, and can have a positive effect on cholesterol levels and blood pressure." (search "red wine and health" or "health benefits of wine" for more)

Also, keep in mind that drug classification systems are a relatively recent thing: Alcohol would not have been called a "drug" in Jesus' day.

I feel, and this is just my personal feeling, that drinking alchohol and the like is a huge blow to your testimony with non-believers, as it is associated with drunkeness etc etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well in my case (and with my dad), being able to go out and have a drink with unbelievers is a big help. It helps them see that we, as Christians, are still people like them that they can relate to.

Although, with our family running pubs for the last 5 years, we did get some funny looks *cough* from people at our old church (we changed later on). But pubs are a great mission ground to spread your faith with people who are usually in the pit of life and need God's love in their lives, and being a bartender, you can help be the person to tell them! I've shared my faith many a time with random people that come to buy drinks from me, and I pray that the Lord will give me opportunity to continue to do just that !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Luke, I've had much the same experience, that unbelievers are very recipient to hearing about the Gospel over a pint. *grin* I think it helps them to see that we're just ordinary folk...that we don't look at ourselves as being superior to others. We're just your average people, who have accepted God's graciously given Gift.

[CarolineS]

Although, with our family running pubs for the last 5 years, we did get some funny looks *cough* from people at our old church (we changed later on). But pubs are a great mission ground to spread your faith with people who are usually in the pit of life and need God's love in their lives, and being a bartender, you can help be the person to tell them! I've shared my faith many a time with random people that come to buy drinks from me, and I pray that the Lord will give me opportunity to continue to do just that !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't know a christian could own a bar and sell alcohol. Is there anything in the Bible about this practice, as far as being a christian, is it something we should be involved in?

I am not trying to be smart or anything, I am just curious.

In Christ,

CarolineS

[Giaour]

Jesus didn't come to save the righteous. He came to save the wicked. So why wouldn't we as followers of Christ seek out the wicked no matter where they are. This includes pubs. There are just as many wicked in the supermarket as there are in the bars.

I see nothing wrong with selling alcohol or owning a bar.

[Iryssa]

I don't see anything wrong with a Christian owning a pub...can't find anything in the scriptures that speaks specifically against it, either.

Oh, for the North Americans here, keep in mind that the pub scene in Great Britain is quite different from the bar scene here...just in case any of you were getting images of those hardcore clubs, complete with people hardly wearing any clothes and dancing like they're auditioning for Dirty Dancing

[CarolineS]

OK. So we should be careful when drinking so as not to cause others to stumble.

We should not drink to excess because getting drunk is a sin. But it is OK to sell all the alcohol we want? Am I getting this correct?

In Christ,

CarolineS