Defense of the Mid Trib Rapture

[Ezra]

Since the above two are recent posts, I will simply say this -- a pre-Tribulation Rapture is the only Rapture that satisfies all the requirements of the Blessed Hope.

[Last Daze]

Since the above two are recent posts, I will simply say this -- a pre-Tribulation Rapture is the only Rapture that satisfies all the requirements of the Blessed Hope.

 

Just curious...what exactly are "all the requirements of the blessed hope" that you refer to as concerning the rapture...according to scripture?

 

The only requirement I can think of is here:

 

For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.  John 6:40

 

My blessed hope (assurance) is eternal life, to be with Jesus forever, when He appears on the last day for the resurrection-rapture.  It's also the will of the Father.  You can't disconnect the rapture from the resurrection which precedes it.

[Ezra]

Just curious...what exactly are "all the requirements of the blessed hope" that you refer to as concerning the rapture...according to scripture?

 

Not sure if this thread is reserved for simply supporting the mid-Trib position so we won't get into any details. 

 

However the first question to ask is "Exactly what is the Tribulation and why is it coming?".

 

The second question to ask is "What does the Church have to do with the Tribulation?"

 

The third question to ask is "Why are so many Christians so eager to see the Church go through any phase of God's judgments upon an ungodly and unbelieving world?"

 

The last question to ask is "What does Satan have to do with causing all this confusion among Christians?

[Last Daze]

 

Just curious...what exactly are "all the requirements of the blessed hope" that you refer to as concerning the rapture...according to scripture?

 

Not sure if this thread is reserved for simply supporting the mid-Trib position so we won't get into any details. 

 

However the first question to ask is "Exactly what is the Tribulation and why is it coming?".

 

The second question to ask is "What does the Church have to do with the Tribulation?"

 

The third question to ask is "Why are so many Christians so eager to see the Church go through any phase of God's judgments upon an ungodly and unbelieving world?"

 

The last question to ask is "What does Satan have to do with causing all this confusion among Christians?

 

 

Start a new thread.  I'm willing to discuss it if you are.

[Larry 2]

Dear brethren, I will confuse most with my views of the rapture, but the first resurrection consists of all those alive in Christ, but each in their own order. If there is a last trump, by necessity there must be preceding trumps. There is a resurrection of those alive in Christ, and one of the dead.

 

Jer 30:7  Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

Rom 5:9  Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 1 Th 1:10  And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Rev 6:17  For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

This describes the second 3 ½ years of tribulation, and the abomination of desolation sitting in the Holy Place. This does not mean a revived temple that is anything holy to God; righteousness is only in Christ, but that man of sin wants adoration as God.

2 Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Mat chapter 24 reflects conditions to come in the second half of the tribulation.

 

Rev 1:10  I (John) was in the Spirit on the Lord's day . . .

Other references to this is The Day of the Lord, or in that day.

Jer 46:10  For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance,

 1 Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Isa 19:24  In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:

What? These refer to different times of Jesus’ rule! YES, and they begin when Jesus sits on His own throne. Rev 4:2.

Rev 4:1  But John is caught up in spirit to heaven to see things which must be after the things of this present age of the Church is determined. “Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.”

 

Anyone still with me? If there is interest I will continue with the pre-trib, and mid-trib portions of the Church caught up to God.

 

Blessings in Christ Jesus.   

[ghtan]

Anyone still with me? If there is interest I will continue with the pre-trib, and mid-trib portions of the Church caught up to God.

 

Blessings in Christ Jesus.  

 

Hi Larry,

 

Are you suggesting that there will be a pre-trib rapture as well as a mid-trib rapture? I think that would be a first. If you are going to try to prove that by word-association, as implied by your list of scriptures, I think that is fraught with dangers. I was reading Isaiah 14:12 the other day and noticed that 'morning star' is used of the king of Babylon and some think it is also a allusion to satan. Recall that in Revelation 22:16, Jesus is quoted calling himself the bright 'morning star'. This is a a rare term in the bible so one would think there is a close relationship, but surely there is not. Shows that the bible often use the same terms without necessarily intending to link them. Context is far more important. I personally don't think you can have both a pretrib rapture and midtrib rapture but I am certainly all ears to hear what you have.

[Larry 2]

Hi Larry,

 

Are you suggesting that there will be a pre-trib rapture as well as a mid-trib rapture? I think that would be a first. If you are going to try to prove that by word-association, as implied by your list of scriptures, I think that is fraught with dangers. I was reading Isaiah 14:12 the other day and noticed that 'morning star' is used of the king of Babylon and some think it is also a allusion to satan. Recall that in Revelation 22:16, Jesus is quoted calling himself the bright 'morning star'. This is a a rare term in the bible so one would think there is a close relationship, but surely there is not. Shows that the bible often use the same terms without necessarily intending to link them. Context is far more important. I personally don't think you can have both a pretrib rapture and midtrib rapture but I am certainly all ears to hear what you have.

 

Thanks. To begin with I will attempt to show the arrival of the different groups of the Church caught up to heaven after the Lord’s Day begins, and then we can discuss whether these things are true.

 

As I have previously stated, the order of being caught up, or raptured as has become a standard when referring to it will be according to 1 Thes 4:16-17.

 

1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

Rev 1:10 says that John was caught forward from where he was in spirit to the Lord’s Day.

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, (this voice is Jesus)

 

Rev 1:8  I (Jesus) am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

 

John is told to write of three viewpoints, and the things which shall be hereafter will be what I am going to expound starting with Rev 4:1.

Rev 1:19  Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

 

From the future Lord’s Day, John is invited in spirit to heaven.

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

 

Who do we see with Jesus before the tribulation?

Rev 4:4  And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Rev 4:6  And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.

What are these?

 Rev 5:9  And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.

Rev 5:10  And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

As one brother brought out, other bibles use the word “Men” instead of “Us, Regardless these are with Jesus in heaven.

 

ASV Rev 5:9 - Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

ASV 5:10 - “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”

 

The next group seen by John in heaven stands before the throne.

Rev 7:14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Rev 7:15  Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

 

The third group we see in Heaven is the 144,000.

Rev 14:1  And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. This is the heavenly Jerusalem.

Heb 12:22  But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

 

OK, is this making any sense to you? I will be glad to go into greater detail if it does, and the reward these different saints is according to the judgment we read of in Revelation Chapters Two & Three.

 

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

[George]

Larry -- why don't you start a thread on its own to detail your thoughts?  Is this position similar to Watchman Nee's position?

[Larry 2]

Larry -- why don't you start a thread on its own to detail your thoughts?  Is this position similar to Watchman Nee's position?

 

I'll be glad to George. Can I leave the replies I've already made here, even though the new thread will include much of the same scripture and thoughts? 

As to being similar to Watchman Nee, I have no idea. In the past I have read some of his writings, and didn't agree with him, but I can't remember what it was. Thanks. 

[George]

This is a portion from a book detailing 

 

Yes, you can follow both threads.  But since this thread is focused on the "mid-trib" position, perhaps you should start your own thread.

 

God bless,

 

George