Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[Guest LCPGUY]

According to the Bible, the sequence of events is:

1. 1

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Serving Him,

Thanks for all your responses...they have helped.

I always rejoice when I have the opportunity as shown here:

1 Peter 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

I give God all the glory, and it is His Words you shall keep, and NOT Ernies.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[ServingHim]

thanks John, so where are we now in all of this? still just after the 1st coming?

[Guest dustycanvas]

Bro John,

I dont believe that there is a difference in the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation. In the scriptures this is just two different way of describing it. THe final seven years are that...the final seven years. The latter three & half years is the tribulation period.

Also, the sheep & the goats is just another way that the "wheat & tares" is described.

And i believe there is only one rapture. The only way i can see you getting two raptures is because John describes the first resurection as the dead in christ rising then the second being those that are alive and remain. I don't see this as two seperate raptures. I see this as two stages of the one rapture.

Here is a good. short article on the subject:

Are the 2nd coming and rapture the same event or different?

They are the same event. The first scripture to consider is Matthew 24:29-31. Paraphrased, it tells us that immediately after the tribulation of the days Jesus had just described, certain events would occur. These events have the exact same description as the events described in the 6th seal, 7th trumpet and 7th vial (see FAQ "Was the book of Revelation written in chronological order?"). It is the wrath of God. We see here that immediately after the tribulation described by Jesus in Matthew 24:15-21 comes the wrath of God. We can understand all of this from Matthew 24:29.

The following verse says, "Then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven." The sign of the His coming will be very obvious. Verse 27 tells us that it will be as obvious as lightning shining out of the east and shines even unto the west. Everyone on earth will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with power and great glory (verse 30).

The next words from Matthew

[ServingHim]

And i believe there is only one rapture.

is this a 'visible' rapture where those in Christ are lifted in the air?

16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; 17 then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thess 4:16-17

Is this the 'rapture' scripture?

[ServingHim]

Matthew 24:29 teaches that the coming of the Son of man and the rapture are the same event.

27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man. 28 Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken; 30 then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory; 31 and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matt 24:26-31

This speaks of the COMING OF THE SON OF MAN in v27. Is that the SECOND/FINAL coming at the 'rapture' that you speak of?

To me, this sounds like the end of the world immediately AFTER Christ's second coming, at the END of the world when immediately following this, there will be the final judgment? I don't see how a 1000 year reign will fit into this...

still learning, though

[ServingHim]

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night."

doesn't 'the day of the Lord' also imly our own impending deaths here on earth .. .that we should be ready for we know NOT the day when our lives will be asked of us...

35 "Let your loins be girded and your lamps burning, 36 and be like men who are waiting for their master to come home from the marriage feast, so that they may open to him at once when he comes and knocks. 37 Blessed are those servants whom the master finds awake when he comes; truly, I say to you, he will gird himself and have them sit at table, and he will come and serve them. 38 If he comes in the second watch, or in the third, and finds them so, blessed are those servants! 39 But know this, that if the householder had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have left his house to be broken into. 40 You also must be ready; for the Son of man is coming at an unexpected hour." 41 Peter said, "Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?" 42 And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and wise steward, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing. 44 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. 45 But if that servant says to himself, `My master is delayed in coming,' and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the unfaithful. 47 And that servant who knew his master's will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating. 48 But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating. Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required; and of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more. Luke 12:35-48

44 Therefore you also must be ready; for the Son of man is coming at an hour you do not expect. Matt 24:44

17 And if you invoke as Father him who judges each one impartially according to his deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile. 1 Peter 1:17

:il:

[Guest dustycanvas]

More proff that the Tribulation is 3 1/2 years, not 7.

Daniel 7

25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.

Daniel 12

7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. [1] When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed."

Revelation 12

14The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach.

[Guest dustycanvas]

About the 1,000 year reign of Christ, see Revelation 20

Yes, the "you will not know the day or the hour" can also be applied to our physical deaths on earth. Because, look at it this way...if you die tomorrow in a car wreck you will be "pre Trib" because you died before the tribulation took place...lol

:oww:

[ServingHim]

More proff that the Tribulation is 3 1/2 years, not 7.

But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8 . . . are you sure, because according to Scripture, God's timing is NOT the same as 'our' timing...apparently.