Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[ServingHim]

No, God is not reigning now.

are you kidding me?!~ So then Christ's death & resurrection did NOTHING?! He has NOT OVERCOME the world? I'm in shock! Why did he say he has overcome the world? Why did he say all these things that I posted previously?

32 The hour is coming, indeed it has come, when you will be scattered, every man to his home, and will leave me alone; yet I am not alone, for the Father is with me. 33 I have said this to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." John 16:31-33

I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. 1 John 2:13

Little children, you are of God, and have overcome them; for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 1 John 4:4

Who is it that overcomes the world but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? 1 John 5:5

8 God reigns over the nations; Psalms 47:8 . . . I don't think that God gave up his REIGNING on EARTH!

but that is what I believe....you are welcome to believe that Christ does not reign...even though He himself said that HE HAS OVERCOME the WORLD...to me, that's REIGNING!

[ServingHim]

dusty, I have to go pack now, as I'm WAY BEHIND in packing for vacation, which we leave tomorrow for 10 days...I'd love to continue our discussions when I return. Thanks for the good conversation...you've made me even more firm in what I "thought" the tribulation period is... God bless you! :il:

[Guest dustycanvas]

Now wait a minute...lol

I don't mean that Calvary was meaningless. Oh my goodness...let's not take this out of context. I mean that Revelation chapter 20 has happened yet! That's all I meant. I mean, according to Revelation chapter 20, no He hasn't came and set his feet on the mount of Olives and taken governmental reign back from man.

He gave man the power to govern themselves for a period of time. But, it will come a day (Rev 20) when God will come down and take back control. Man will no longer rule himself. That for the first time there will be peace on earth...no war. But, this will only last for 1,000 years. Then, he will release Satan (because he will be bound during this time) and the peace will be over. Then, God will destroy the Earth and the final judgement will take place.

Please, don't be so ready to jump bones on here. We are talking prophecy, not salvation issues.

[ServingHim]

I don't mean that Calvary was meaningless. Oh my goodness...let's not take this out of context. I mean that Revelation chapter 20 has happened yet! That's all I meant. I mean, according to Revelation chapter 20, no He hasn't came and set his feet on the mount of Olives and taken governmental reign back from man.

where do scriptures speak of 'earthly governmental' control...Isn't that what the Jews were waiting on...that is why many rejected the Messiah...they were thinking that His Reign on earth would be a 'governmental, earthly' reign to free them from their oppression...

[Guest LCPGUY]

thanks John, so where are we now in all of this?  still just after the 1st coming?

Oh my no, we

[ServingHim]

I don't mean that Calvary was meaningless. Oh my goodness...let's not take this out of context. I mean that Revelation chapter 20 has happened yet!

do you mean 'has not' happened? How do you know FOR SURE?!

He gave man the power to govern themselves for a period of time.

you're speaking clearly ONLY governmental control, right?

But, it will come a day (Rev 20) when God will come down and take back control.

But I believe that God IS in control...like all those scriptures maintain.

Man will no longer rule himself.

I thought Christ RULED WITHIN us?

That for the first time there will be peace on earth...no war.

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. Matt 10:34 . . . only in eternity will we see 'pure peace'...

"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased!" Luke 2:14 . . . peace is in His Church... not in man's government.

and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. Col 1:20 ... peace on earth is through the Cross only...I believe there will always be 'wars'...

But, this will only last for 1,000 years. Then, he will release Satan (because he will be bound during  this time) and the peace will be over. Then, God will destroy the Earth and the final judgement will take place.

I thought Satan was prowling now...not confined?

Please, don't be so ready to jump bones on here. We are talking prophecy, not salvation issues.

dear friend, I'm not 'jumping on bones'... but intrigued by this whole issue. And since you speak with such authority, it seems, to me it is worthy to note why I disagree with you...

[Guest dustycanvas]

The Jews missed out on Jesus because they were looking for their Messiah to come down conquering, as a king...in awesome array and judging. But, he came as an humble child...and then as a servant and a teacher riding on a donkey's back. They were looking for splendor and missed the obvious.

Okay, God's grace and mercy permits us to self will. Adam & Eve were given self will. This is why they fell from grace when they were decieved. They were kicked out of the garden of Eden thus, beginning the time that we have to take care of ourselves. (I'm speaking literally, not meaning that we don't have God to help us)

Another example is when the Jewish people, shortly after leaving Egypt insisted on having a King.

God has allowed us to rule/govern ourselves. But, the day will come (Rev. 20) that God will say No more! ANd he will rule the Earth. Our democracy and government will be dethroned.

[ServingHim]

The Jews missed out on Jesus because they were looking for their Messiah to come down conquering, as a king...in awesome array and judging. But, he came as an humble child...and then as a servant and a teacher riding on a donkey's back. They were looking for splendor and missed the obvious.

Okay, God's grace and mercy permits us to self will. Adam & Eve were given self will. This is why they fell from grace when they were decieved. They were kicked out of the garden of Eden thus, beginning the time that we have to take care of ourselves. (I'm speaking literally, not meaning that we don't have God to help us)

Another example is when the Jewish people, shortly after leaving Egypt insisted on having a King.

God has allowed us to rule/govern ourselves. But, the day will come (Rev. 20) that God will say No more! ANd he will rule the Earth. Our democracy and government will be dethroned.

11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, 12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire! 13 But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. 2 Peter 3:11-13 ... sorry, me again. I keep finding scriptures that don't seem to fit into your scenario, dusty.

This speaks of His Second Coming, right? So if in His Second coming, the heavens and the earth are kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire, wouldn't ALL people die on earth? How would Christ then physically 'reign' on earth for another 1000 years?

[Guest dustycanvas]

I speak confidently because I am well studied in this area. I don't have all the answers by any means but, I spent a full year of doing nothing but studying the book of Revelation. And when I came up for air, I viewed prophecy in a whole new light.

Okay, do we not have a presidential election coming up in November? We rule ourselves in terms of government.

I'm not speaking metaphorically...Christ does live and reign in our hearts...well he does if we intend on making the rapture!

I can appreciate dissagreement! But, before you dissagree be well studied on the matter.

John, that is a good suggestion but, the best way is to get away from external sources and study the Bible and pray for discernment. God will give understanding to those who desire it.

**I am aware that I can sound "bossy, or aggitated" on here, it's not my intention. I am just passionate about this subject!

[ServingHim]

I can appreciate dissagreement! But, before you dissagree be well studied on the matter.

I disagree...I have every right to ask questions, and don't need to be a scholar in order to ask good questions...I find holes in this theory, and it wasn't hard to find them with "scripture alone"...but I do appreciate you taking time to discuss it with me.

1 Now concerning food offered to idols: we know that "all of us possess knowledge." "Knowledge" puffs up, but love builds up. 2 If any one imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. 3 But if one loves God, one is known by him. 1 Cor 8:1-3

I'm impressed that you've spent one year studying, but we ALL study and we ALL come to conclusions...and if we differ, I think it's prideful to say that the one you disagree with needs to 'study more'.

Nonetheless, you have excellent points, but again, I have brought up things that you've not answered to satisfy my questions...they still don't add up...I'm OFF to study more and go on vacation!!!! God bless... :hug: