Israel in Prophesy (still future vs 1948)

[dad2]

 

By the way answer the question as to what religion you are so we can see who believes that stuff such as that Jesus has already returned!

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It is given in days and months to show that the 3 1/2 times, that is the subject of the passage, is the second 3 1/2 times and not the first 3 1/2 times.

 

It is still 1260 days or 42 months so it does not matter.

 

 

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That is, that the rule of the (Roman) beast for 42 months Rev 13:5, the time of the 2 witnesses for 42 months Rev 11:3, and the 1260 days of the good woman in the wilderness of the gentile nations, are showing the same time periods in parallel, the second 3 1/2 times, 70 AD until 1967.

 

I think you mean that you butchery every instance where the time is given in years and months and days to mean some historical period that fits your pet theory.

 

 

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The first 3 1/2 times is told to us by the angel in Dan. 12:7, that the time from Babylon until the great scattering into the gentile nations is the first 3 1/2 times. Babylon until Jerusalem falls in 70 AD. That first 3 1/2 times lasted 656 years ish.

The second 3 1/2 times was centuries longer, 1897 yrs ish.

 

 

I get it, you can make it shorter or longer as needed and all you have to do is ignore what it says clearly in several ways.

 

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When the seven times are completed, then the time of the statue in Dan.2 will be over, the toes end, and Jerusalem will be restored to Israel. 1967.

Dan 2 says absolutely nothing of seven times. Period.

 

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The statue of Dan. 2 begins when Jerusalem falls to Babylon.

 

Easy to prove false. Daniel told the king THOU art the head of this statue!

 

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The statue ends when Jerusalem is restored to the control of the people of Israel.

Which the toes of the statue have now ended and the stone is about to strike.

 

 

  Israel being restored does not involve a secular unrepentant nation. It does involve God destroying their enemies which, as we notice has not happened.

 

By the way, the 2 witnesses did not sneak into Israel in the few decades before 1967. What were their names? What miracles did they do? What armies did they call down fire from heaven on? Etc.

Edited August 16, 2021 by dad2

[abcdef]

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

 

 

If so then why is that time also given to us in days and months?

 

 

 

 

Using an example from Revelation we see this

 

Revelation 13:7

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations

 

 

So here we have a real man. A man having power over real nations.

This man and another man are mentioned. Another man who cames after the first guy.

 

Revelation 13:13

And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

 

That man does wonders like calling fire down. The man is not symbolic. Nor did that man live in 70AD!

 

 

No it says nothing like that actually. It specifies WHEN in the next verse!

 

Daniel 12:8

And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

Daniel 12:9

And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

 

 

Sorry, that makes no sense. The witnesses appear in the Tribulation and are killed at the end of it. They could not have snuck in Israel in the past some time.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Rev 11:6, These are the symbols used to indicate the spiritual powers of the scriptures that are carried by the people of Israel, who are the 2 witnesses. The powers involve a covenant relationship with God, who receives the scriptures and who doesn't. Those who receive the scriptures can have eternal life by faith and grace though Jesus.

Notice how the same elements are symbolized in the Rev 8:6-12, waters, blood, and earth.

What the paradox is for the enemies of Israel is, that they think that they are serving their God by destroying Israel, but the reality is that they are destroying the very people who hold the Words that lead to eternal life with God, The God of Love.

Because of the scriptures, they are killed, but the Word of God protects them, as the rivers of eternal life, through the scriptures. So through the centuries, the people of Israel have been attacked and killed, but not completely to where the children branches are completely ended as a race, children of Jacob.

Now they no longer are in sackcloth mourning for the city of Jerusalem.

They are in control of the city, Lk 21:24, ending the tribulation and the times off the gentiles. 1967.

 

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

Can you refresh our memory as to when someone called fire out of heaven and devouvered their enemies in 70AD? Ha

Caesar brought the fires of judgment down on the unbelieving broken natural branches in 67 - 70 AD. His fires burned them until 1967. The judgment of a beast nation, with no love (hate) for the people of Israel. 

 

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

Since He then rules and reigns with us and judges the nations how is it that you claim the world will still be in the Tribulation after He returns?!

The trib ended in 1967. Jesus will soon come for the kingdom at the resur/rapt which hasn't happened yet.

But again, you are mixing up the details about the 70 AD destruction with the coming fall of Jerusalem, which are 2 separate operations separated by 1900 years ish.

Jesus "came" as God at the 67-70 AD destruction with the armies of the iron Roman beast nation and destroyed the temple and Jerusalem and scattered the people of Israel among the wilderness of the gentile nations for 1900 years. But, it wasn't a resurrection coming. There was no resurrection in 70 AD.

Jesus will come for the kingdom, soon, but this time it is the resurrection/rapt coming, for the kingdom, Pentecost gift of the Holy Spirit new covenant kingdom.

The restoration of Jerusalem IS the sign of His resurrection coming, Matt 24:31. (The 5th trumpet not the 7th)

 

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

Why pick that particular trumpet as having not happened yet?

Six trumpets have sounded. The armies of the kings of the east (Iran) are now crossing the Euphrates. The nations Magog have the restored to Israel Jerusalem surrounded and are closing in.

 

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

Refresh our memory when an angel dried up the Euphrates?

The waters are people, Rev 17:15, Isa 8:7-8.

The people of the Euphrates are Iraq. The power of the people of Iraq was dried up when the Iraq war was fought, beginning on 9/11/01.

The drying up of the people in Iraq allows Iran to cross the area to attack restored to Israel Jerusalem, just before the 7th trumpet.

 

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

Revelation 16:12

And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

Iran and Iraq fought a ten year war to a stalemate, of sorts. But now there is no power in Iraq to stop Iran from passing through their country to attack Jerusalem. Iraq and Iran are allies against Jerusalem. Other nations and people are supporting the demise of Israel but Iran and Russia are the key players.

 

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

1260 symbolic days? 42 symbolic months? What is 1260 symbolic of?

Three and one half times, 3 1/2 times, 70 AD - 1967.

Dan. 7:25, The 4th beast rules for 3 1/2 times, How long is that? 3 1/2 years or centuries? The 4th beast of Dan. 7 is the same as the iron legs/toes of the statue in Dan. 2, Rome. Rome that dominates the people of Israel from 63 BC until 1967, centuries, not 3 1/2 years.

 

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

In Daniel 12:13 it tells us when the end of the days are actually.

Daniel 12:13

But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Dan. 12:13, The end of what days? All days? The first covenant days? The end of days at the last judgment? The end of days beginning at the first resurrection when Jesus rose?

Probably the very last judgment of Rev 20 is being shown by "thy lot".

 

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

Are you claiming Daniel no longer was dead or in his lot in 1967? Where is he, in hiding?

Daniel rose to heaven with Jesus at the first resurrection, when Jesus rose from the grave. So he would be in his lot, generation perhaps, right now possibly. 

 

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

Why is 2000 years 42 months? You made that up.

The key is to understand is that all the timelines such as the iron legs/toes from the statue in Dan. 2 and the 4th beast nation from Dan. 7 must match up as parallel.  

Then understand that the beast nation of Revelation 13 and 17 are also the iron of Dan. 2 and the 4th beast of Dan. 7, Rome.

The 4th beast Rome in Dan. 7:25 is seen to have power over the people for 3 1/2 times. This corresponds to the other "3 1/2 times" of the 2 witnesses, the good woman of Rev 12, and the 42 months of the beast in Rev 13.

His power is seen to last centuries and not just 3 1/2 years.

 

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

There in nothing in Dan 2 that mentions 42 months or any time period. It mentioned Greece and other kingdoms. Sorry no 42 months that really mean (insert whatever you like here)

Not Dan. 2, Dan. 7:25 speaks of the 3 1/2 times. But since they are both Rome then one applies to the other.

 

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

Jerusalem was not restored. God will do that. When He does you will not see them attacked from their many enemies.

God has restored Jerusalem, it is there in front of you.

Show me where it says that they won't be attacked, and for how long that time period lasts.

 

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

That you invented whole of cloth.

I am not the author of the Bible, I'm just trying to understand it better by interacting with my brothers and sisters.

But I have found a better explanation for the time lines and entities. A timeline that fits together well.

To see the future is, not possible outside of God and His Word that was given to us. But to see the past is more definable. To see events of the past and to examine them in detail is possible, when it comes to prophecy. It is recognizing the meaning of the symbols such as that the beast is Rome, and the kings of the east is Iran, that tells us our place in the time line.

 

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

No, they did not flee after the final world leader stopped their sacrifices,

67-70 AD, Caesar stopped them.

 

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

and the Euphrates was not dried up

Beginning in 2001 and continues to this day.

 

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

and Jesus did not return and restore them

Jerusalem is restored before Jesus comes for the kingdom.

Jesus comes for the kingdom 3 1/2 days after this restored Jerusalem falls to the kings of the east and Magog.

 

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

and they did not repent, and there was no 2 witnesses doing miracles, and no 144,000 Jews preaching and protected by God, and no AntiChrist, and no mark of the beast, etc etc etc etc etc etc.

There have been all of these, but you are thinking literal and not about the symbols and their spiritual meanings.

 

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

By the way, are you JW?

Far from it. Just a person.

[dad2]

2 hours ago, abcdef said:

Rev 11:6, These are the symbols used to indicate the spiritual powers of the scriptures that are carried by the people of Israel, who are the 2 witnesses. The powers involve a covenant relationship with God, who receives the scriptures and who doesn't. Those who receive the scriptures can have eternal life by faith and grace though Jesus.

Notice how the same elements are symbolized in the Rev 8:6-12, waters, blood, and earth.

What the paradox is for the enemies of Israel is, that they think that they are serving their God by destroying Israel, but the reality is that they are destroying the very people who hold the Words that lead to eternal life with God, The God of Love.

Because of the scriptures, they are killed, but the Word of God protects them, as the rivers of eternal life, through the scriptures. So through the centuries, the people of Israel have been attacked and killed, but not completely to where the children branches are completely ended as a race, children of Jacob.

Now they no longer are in sackcloth mourning for the city of Jerusalem.

They are in control of the city, Lk 21:24, ending the tribulation and the times off the gentiles. 1967.

 

Caesar brought the fires of judgment down on the unbelieving broken natural branches in 67 - 70 AD. His fires burned them until 1967. The judgment of a beast nation, with no love (hate) for the people of Israel. 

 

The trib ended in 1967. Jesus will soon come for the kingdom at the resur/rapt which hasn't happened yet.

But again, you are mixing up the details about the 70 AD destruction with the coming fall of Jerusalem, which are 2 separate operations separated by 1900 years ish.

Jesus "came" as God at the 67-70 AD destruction with the armies of the iron Roman beast nation and destroyed the temple and Jerusalem and scattered the people of Israel among the wilderness of the gentile nations for 1900 years. But, it wasn't a resurrection coming. There was no resurrection in 70 AD.

Jesus will come for the kingdom, soon, but this time it is the resurrection/rapt coming, for the kingdom, Pentecost gift of the Holy Spirit new covenant kingdom.

The restoration of Jerusalem IS the sign of His resurrection coming, Matt 24:31. (The 5th trumpet not the 7th)

 

Six trumpets have sounded. The armies of the kings of the east (Iran) are now crossing the Euphrates. The nations Magog have the restored to Israel Jerusalem surrounded and are closing in.

 

The waters are people, Rev 17:15, Isa 8:7-8.

The people of the Euphrates are Iraq. The power of the people of Iraq was dried up when the Iraq war was fought, beginning on 9/11/01.

The drying up of the people in Iraq allows Iran to cross the area to attack restored to Israel Jerusalem, just before the 7th trumpet.

 

Iran and Iraq fought a ten year war to a stalemate, of sorts. But now there is no power in Iraq to stop Iran from passing through their country to attack Jerusalem. Iraq and Iran are allies against Jerusalem. Other nations and people are supporting the demise of Israel but Iran and Russia are the key players.

 

Three and one half times, 3 1/2 times, 70 AD - 1967.

Dan. 7:25, The 4th beast rules for 3 1/2 times, How long is that? 3 1/2 years or centuries? The 4th beast of Dan. 7 is the same as the iron legs/toes of the statue in Dan. 2, Rome. Rome that dominates the people of Israel from 63 BC until 1967, centuries, not 3 1/2 years.

 

Dan. 12:13, The end of what days? All days? The first covenant days? The end of days at the last judgment? The end of days beginning at the first resurrection when Jesus rose?

Probably the very last judgment of Rev 20 is being shown by "thy lot".

 

Daniel rose to heaven with Jesus at the first resurrection, when Jesus rose from the grave. So he would be in his lot, generation perhaps, right now possibly. 

 

The key is to understand is that all the timelines such as the iron legs/toes from the statue in Dan. 2 and the 4th beast nation from Dan. 7 must match up as parallel.  

Then understand that the beast nation of Revelation 13 and 17 are also the iron of Dan. 2 and the 4th beast of Dan. 7, Rome.

The 4th beast Rome in Dan. 7:25 is seen to have power over the people for 3 1/2 times. This corresponds to the other "3 1/2 times" of the 2 witnesses, the good woman of Rev 12, and the 42 months of the beast in Rev 13.

His power is seen to last centuries and not just 3 1/2 years.

 

Not Dan. 2, Dan. 7:25 speaks of the 3 1/2 times. But since they are both Rome then one applies to the other.

 

God has restored Jerusalem, it is there in front of you.

Show me where it says that they won't be attacked, and for how long that time period lasts.

 

I am not the author of the Bible, I'm just trying to understand it better by interacting with my brothers and sisters.

But I have found a better explanation for the time lines and entities. A timeline that fits together well.

To see the future is, not possible outside of God and His Word that was given to us. But to see the past is more definable. To see events of the past and to examine them in detail is possible, when it comes to prophecy. It is recognizing the meaning of the symbols such as that the beast is Rome, and the kings of the east is Iran, that tells us our place in the time line.

 

67-70 AD, Caesar stopped them.

 

Beginning in 2001 and continues to this day.

 

Jerusalem is restored before Jesus comes for the kingdom.

Jesus comes for the kingdom 3 1/2 days after this restored Jerusalem falls to the kings of the east and Magog.

 

There have been all of these, but you are thinking literal and not about the symbols and their spiritual meanings.

 

Far from it. Just a person.

 A person of what denomination or cult?

[abcdef]

7 hours ago, dad2 said:

 A person of what denomination or cult?

So that you will understand, I will tell you.

I am just one person. There is no group or denomination.

There is no safety in numbers.

I live in a place that some (city) folks have called the middle of no where.

The only thing that is important is if what I'm saying is the truth or not.

------

The arrangement of the time lines and the symbolism definitions began years ago when I was asked, "How  many resurrections are there?"

The answer is in 1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24, There are only 2 resurrections. John 5:25-29.

The first resurrection is Jesus and the OT saints.

The second resurrection is when Jesus comes for the kingdom, for those who are His. 

This sets one basic timeline that all other timelines must agree with.

Two resurrections, not 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7. Two only.

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The second timeline that all others must agree with, must conform to is the statue in Dan. 2.

The succession of the gentile nations is clear, Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome.

But in these modern versions of the Dan. 2 time line do not agree with the statue time line.

1st, the Dan. 2 time line shows the iron Rome as continual through history until the toes end. But modern timelines have "gaps" or "breaks"in the continual timeline and deny that the iron is continual.

2nd, The iron diminishes and goes weaker and smaller at the end of the toes of the statue timeline. This is in disagreement with the pre-trib theory that a planet wide empire will control the planet. If that were true, then the toes would be as large or larger than the hip area where the iron first began, at its most powerful time. 

These observations contradict most of the modern, popular theories.

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Please answer these questions,

Who is the iron nation in the statue of Dan. 2?

The iron is continual without any gaps or breaks, who was the iron nation 1000 years ago?

Who was the iron nation 200 years ago?

Who is he iron nation right now? 

There can be only one answer to all of these questions, Rome, Rome, Rome, and Rome.

But the modern, popular theories disagree with the obvious.

------

Understanding how these timelines fit together, with there being only 2 general resurrections, adjusts the overall view of the prophecies.

With this in mind, the placement of all other prophetic timelines must conform to these 2 basic ones.

----

[dad2]

3 hours ago, abcdef said:

Please answer these questions,

Who is the iron nation in the statue of Dan. 2?

The iron is continual without any gaps or breaks, who was the iron nation 1000 years ago?

Who was the iron nation 200 years ago?

Who is he iron nation right now? 

There can be only one answer to all of these questions, Rome, Rome, Rome, and Rome.

But the modern, popular theories disagree with the obvious.

------

Understanding how these timelines fit together, with there being only 2 general resurrections, adjusts the overall view of the prophecies.

With this in mind, the placement of all other prophetic timelines must conform to these 2 basic ones.

----

In Dan two we are given the kingdoms from Nebuchadnezzar, who was the head of gold (Babylon) until the end of time when Jesus returns, dashes them all to pieces like a potters vessel as one psalm puts it, and rules forever. There was no iron in gold. Nor in silver. Nor in the brass. The legs were iron. That was of course Rome. The final time (feet and toes) will see a mix. We also notice there are ten toes just as there are ten final powers in the very end. Yes, the very end involves a king that is considered a continuation of the former Roman empire. This is not a time line but a sequence of kingdoms till the end. This has nothing to do with the Tribulation length. We were given that time specifically in various places in the bible in days and months and years. 

 That prophesy has no real relation to the OP either. 

When someone says Jesus has returned already we have no need to wonder if they are telling the truth or not. Where they live does not matter either.. You did say Jesus had returned correct?

 You also seem to indicate that you are not predominantly swayed or influenced or representative of any religion or denomination. You made it clear it was not JW. I would have expected that you admit to some sort of general association such as Messianic, Catholic, Orthodox, Born again Christian, Adventist, Methodist, or etc. Instead we see a claim of a person living in the middle of nowhere, that thinks Jesus came back already. 

Perhaps Josheb who seems to agree with you can be more forthcoming?

Edited August 16, 2021 by dad2

[abcdef]

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

In Dan two we are given the kingdoms from Nebuchadnezzar, who was the head of gold (Babylon) until the end of time when Jesus returns,

Dan. 2 The stone striking.

Which return is this speaking about? pre-trib, mid trib, post-trib/pre-mill, or post mill?

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

dashes them all to pieces like a potters vessel as one psalm puts it, and rules forever.

When you say that the statue is smashed and Jesus rules forever after that, then the trib must take place before the stone strikes, during the time of the Roman beast iron legs/toes nation Rome. This shows that the iron beast nation has been here since 63 BC when Rome invaded Israel. (And is still here)

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

There was no iron in gold. Nor in silver. Nor in the brass. The legs were iron. That was of course Rome.

The iron is continual, it becomes divided, and mixed with the non-Roman nations that rule over the people of Israel until the statue ends.

Who was the iron beast nation 300 years ago? Who is it right now?

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

The final time (feet and toes) will see a mix.

Yes

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

We also notice there are ten toes just as there are ten final powers in the very end.

The 10 final powers end when Jerusalem is restored to the control of the people of Israel. They don't end as nations, only their power over the people of Israel is ended. (1967)

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

Yes, the very end involves a king that is considered a continuation of the former Roman empire

By golly, who do you think is the continuation of the former Roman Empire today? 1000 years ago, 300 years ago, 200 years ago? 

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

This is not a time line but a sequence of kingdoms till the end.

No, it is a timeline. It is a sequence of empires that rule over the people of Israel until Jerusalem is restored (1967). The dates of the empires are well known, putting them in their correct places in the time line.

The question usually is where are we in the timeline? (The toes have ended and the stone is about to strike)

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

This has nothing to do with the Tribulation length.

It has everything to do with the trib length. The trib must take place during the time of the Roman iron. Since the 4th beast of Dan. 7 is showing the same Roman Empire nation, the statement that the 4th beast rules for 3 1/2 times Dan.7:25, The 3 1/2 times applies to the Dan. 2 statue also, meaning the the iron also must fit a 3 1/2 times into its time of reign over the people of Israel.

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

We were given that time specifically in various places in the bible in days and months and years. 

The 1260 days, 42 months, and 3 1/2 times in the Rev are all symbolic numbers in symbolic passages and are not literal days or months.

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

That prophesy has no real relation to the OP either.

Was Israel restored in 1948? 1967? or future? 

The trib ends, Jerusalem is restored, and then falls, before Jesus comes for the resur/rapt.

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

When someone says Jesus has returned already we have no need to wonder if they are telling the truth or not. Where they live does not matter either.. You did say Jesus had returned correct?

Here  is the thing to understand, Jesus "came" to planet earth many times after the initial resurrection and showed Himself to many people. Jesus "came" to earth and met Saul/Paul on the road. Jesus came as God at the destruction of 70 AD Jerusalem, but, they were not resurrection "comings", He "came" but not for the resurrection. 

-

The resurrection "coming" that we look for is when Jesus comes for those who are His, 1 Cor 15:23-24, when Jesus comes for the new covenant Pentecost kingdom. 

This is the resurrection/rapture, when Jesus comes for the kingdom.

After this 2nd resurrection, which is the last one, this planet is turned to fire, and there is no human life left here.

--

People believe that after Jesus comes for the kingdom, that there will be people left and second chances, but it is not true.

That comes from mixing the scriptures about the 70 AD destruction with the one that will happen shortly, 1900 years after the first on of 70 AD. 

 

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

 

 You also seem to indicate that you are not predominantly swayed or influenced or representative of any religion or denomination. You made it clear it was not JW. I would have expected that you admit to some sort of general association such as Messianic, Catholic, Orthodox, Born again Christian, Adventist, Methodist, or etc.

I am just a Christian. No group. Just Jesus and the Bible. (Maybe that is why I see some things from a different point of view.)

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

Instead we see a claim of a person living in the middle of nowhere, that thinks Jesus came back already. 

Jesus came back many times, but they were not resurrection comings. The resur/rapt coming will happen shortly.

The word "coming" needs to be defined by which one specifically mean. Even pertrib disagrees on how many "comings" and "resurrection comings" there are. 

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

Perhaps Josheb who seems to agree with you can be more forthcoming?

We agree and disagree. Brothers often do. So do you and I disagree and agree, yes, brother?

[dad2]

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Dan. 2 The stone striking.

Which return is this speaking about? pre-trib, mid trib, post-trib/pre-mill, or post mill?

  When you say that the statue is smashed and Jesus rules forever after that, then the trib must take place before the stone strikes, during the time of the Roman beast iron legs/toes nation Rome. This shows that the iron beast nation has been here since 63 BC when Rome invaded Israel. (And is still here)

 

 

The final kingdom is a revived Roman empire. Nothing to do with when the old Rome was here in any way that regards time.

 

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  The iron is continual,

 

No. Rome fell apart and stopped existing as an empire. When God allows it to revive, that is ages and ages after Rome ceased to exist as a power. It is then that that last seven years happens.

 

 

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The 10 final powers end when Jerusalem is restored to the control of the people of Israel.

They end when Jesus clobbers them after returning to earth. It is also after that that He restores a repentant Israel.

 

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By golly, who do you think is the continuation of the former Roman Empire today?

 

No one. The final world leader will head that empire. It has not arose yet.

 

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No, it is a timeline.

 

Dan 2 is a sequence of empires and there is no mention of time. Once that final leader defiles the holy place then there is a lot of mention of time.

 

 

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The question usually is where are we in the timeline? (The toes have ended and the stone is about to strike)

 

 

The toes are not even here yet. They are the final ten kingdoms that rule with the AntiChrist. If you notice he has not been revealed yet.

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It has everything to do with the trib length. The trib must take place during the time of the Roman iron.

 

The revived Roman Empire headed by the AC. Not the old one.

 

 

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Since the 4th beast of Dan. 7 is showing the same Roman Empire nation, the statement that the 4th beast rules for 3 1/2 times Dan.7:25,

 

Dan 7:25 is talking about the AC. He rules the revived final Roman Empire. He does so for only 7 years.

 

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Was Israel restored in 1948? 1967? or future? 

 

Only after the repent in the end. Not yet.

 

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The trib ends, Jerusalem is restored, and then falls, before Jesus comes for the resur/rapt.

 

Jesus will have returned. Who do you think will take Jerusalem from Him! No possibility.

Quote

 

Here  is the thing to understand, Jesus "came" to planet earth many times after the initial resurrection and showed Himself to many people. Jesus "came" to earth and met Saul/Paul on the road. Jesus came as God at the destruction of 70 AD Jerusalem, but, they were not resurrection "comings", He "came" but not for the resurrection. 

-

The resurrection "coming" that we look for is when Jesus comes for those who are His, 1 Cor 15:23-24, when Jesus comes for the new covenant Pentecost kingdom. 

This is the resurrection/rapture, when Jesus comes for the kingdom.

After this 2nd resurrection, which is the last one, this planet is turned to fire, and there is no human life left here.

 

--

 

No. There is plenty of life left when He returns. How else could He rule the nations and judge the nations? Only after 1000 years will the earth be burned up and made new.

 

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I am just a Christian. No group. Just Jesus and the Bible.

 

Well, maybe find some help. You should be learning not teaching prophesy.

 

 

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Jesus came back many times, but they were not resurrection comings. The resur/rapt coming will happen shortly.

 

He appeared to Paul. That was not a return. That was enabling Paul to see Him where He was. He never came back to earth and will not until He comes back.

 

 

Quote

We agree and disagree. Brothers often do. So do you and I disagree and agree, yes, brother?

 

If you believe in Jesus and that He died and rose again and saves us if we ask, then we agree.

[abcdef]

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

The final kingdom is a revived Roman empire. Nothing to do with when the old Rome was here in any way that regards time.

The Roman Empire split into 10 (symbolic of complete division), after 476 ish AD.

Since then the Roman "Church" Bishop of Rome has been the image of the Caesar worship, not the Caesars themselves, but a religious Caesar worship, an image of the worship of Caesar (man, the creation) as supreme god.

Again see how there are no gaps in the iron legs through the the toes, but one continual time line. 

So you agree that the Roman Empire fell, but you are not recognizing that the legs of the Dan. 2 statue are continual without gaps where you say that they should appear.

You are waiting for the revived Roman Empire? It has been here for 1500 years. 

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

No. Rome fell apart and stopped existing as an empire. When God allows it to revive, that is ages and ages after Rome ceased to exist as a power. It is then that that last seven years happens.

Yes Rome fell apart. That was 1500 ish years ago.

The Bishop of Rome, the "image" Caesar, over an "image" Roman Empire.

This fills in the "gap" that some must insert to make the pretrib theory work. A gap that is not there, a 1500 year gap not there. 

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

They end when Jesus clobbers them after returning to earth.

Show me the scripture that says, "Jesus clobbers them after returning to earth."

Jesus will not be returning to planet earth, except to come in the air for the kingdom. That is the 2nd and last resurrection, 1 Cor 15:23-24.

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

It is also after that that He restores a repentant Israel.

1948-1967-2021, Is this a repentant Israel that we are seeing? 

Were they repentant enough to be restored to control of Jerusalem?

What kind of repentance are you expecting to see?

This Israel today, 2021, is a nation because of the promises made to the fathers under the covenant with Jacob and others. 

Israel as a nation and generally, probably will not become a Christian nation, that is, on a national scale.

There will be Christians in Israel, natural branches and wild branches, but there will always be people who reject Jesus right to the very end.

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

No one. The final world leader will head that empire. It has not arose yet.

Yes the final world leader has been revealed! He was revealed at 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem as Caesar and has been here ever since.

Caesar is the leader of the iron continual legs/toes nation through the centuries.

Rome has changed form, from the Empire into a religious empire image RCC, but is still Rome.

The 10 nation Roman years began 1500 years ago.

The Antichrist Caesar is the Bishop of Rome.

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

Dan 2 is a sequence of empires and there is no mention of time.

In the Dan. 2 statue, the prophecies were made during the Babylon period.

They were showing times that were centuries in the future. The prophecies from Babylon did not give dates looking forward, but looking back through history we now have the dates and can date the succession of the empires, filling in the dates of the time line.

The focus of our time should be the very last thing that happens before the stone strikes, the time that we are in now.

You believe that Jesus is coming for the resur/rapt? I do. It's just that it is much closer that we thought.

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

Once that final leader defiles the holy place then there is a lot of mention of time.

The AoD happened in the 70 AD ish time period and has nothing to do with the coming fall of Jerusalem, and the coming resur/rapt.

2 separate events 1900 years apart.

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

The toes are not even here yet. They are the final ten kingdoms that rule with the AntiChrist. If you notice he has not been revealed yet.

The toes formed 1500 years ago when the Roman Empire fell apart. 

The toes end when Jerusalem is restored to the control of the people of Israel.(1967)

The Dan. 2 statue is showing ONLY, the nations that rule over the people of Israel until Jerusalem is restored. NOT the PLANET EARTH.

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

The revived Roman Empire headed by the AC. Not the old one.

The revived Roman Empire is the RCC. It is Caesar worship.

There is only one Holy Father, and He is in heaven.

The Bishop of Rome does not have the power to forgive sins against God.

The RCC is not exclusively Israel.

Salvation can be given outside of the RCC, and just not only through them.

The beast of Caesar and Caesar worship still exists, it just changed to the image form 1500 years ago.

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

Dan 7:25 is talking about the AC. He rules the revived final Roman Empire. He does so for only 7 years.

Dan. 7:25, but it doesn't say 7 years does it? It says 3 1/2 times.

The 3 1/2 times is from 70 AD until 1967. That is the time that Rome rules over the people of Israel.

Dan. 7:25, 3 1/2 times is a symbolic number in a symbolic passage. It spans centuries, not 3 1/2 literal years.

The Bishop of Rome rules the revived Roman Empire. He rules over the people of Israel, NOT the PLANET Earth.

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

Only after the repent in the end. Not yet.

When Israel repents, what do you expect to see? What happens?

Some thing that is different than what is happening right now?

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

Jesus will have returned. Who do you think will take Jerusalem from Him! No possibility.

Jesus is coming back one more time for the kingdom at the resur/rapt., for those who are His, 1 Cor 15:23-24. He will not be returning after that again ever.

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

No. There is plenty of life left when He returns.

Sorry, but after Jesus comes for the kingdom, this planet is destroyed by fire.

1 Cor 15:23-28, tells us that after Jesus comes for those who are his, that it is the time when death is destroyed. In Rev 20:14-15, it also shows the same time, when death is destroyed. Since these to passages are showing the same event, we can combine the details to see that after the second resurrection that the planet is destroyed by the fire from heaven, followed by the heavens flying away and the last judgment.

So the idea that there will be any souls left alive is contradicted by the series of events shown in 1 Cor 15:23-28 and Rev 20.

The mix up comes from not knowing which passages are about the 70 AD destruction (coming, as in His presence was there as God, allowing the destruction) and the resur/rapt coming for those who are His.

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

How else could He rule the nations and judge the nations? Only after 1000 years will the earth be burned up and made new.

WE are at the end of the 1000 years now. 

The 1000 years (a symbolic number in a symbolic passage), is the time of the new covenant Pentecost kingdom on planet earth that we are in now. 

When Jerusalem soon falls, to the armies that have it presently surrounded, the kings of the east and Magog, Jesus will come for the kingdom and this planet will be destroyed.

You are maybe thinking that you are waiting for things to begin, but we are at the very end, I mean, THE END, the fire from heaven end.

The stone striking end.

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

Well, maybe find some help. You should be learning not teaching prophesy.

You are just accepting what everybody says. I know that it seems to make sense to you. But if you care to look a little closer, I think that you will see some cracks in the theory that will lead to it falling apart. That is, that some things in the pretrib theory contradict some scriptures, so they cannot be true.

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

He appeared to Paul. That was not a return. That was enabling Paul to see Him where He was. He never came back to earth and will not until He comes back.

Jesus meets us in the air. He never returns to Planet earth.

Jesus came back many times after His initial ascension to the Father and was seen by many. He appeared in His glory presence to Saul/Paul on the road, the presence of Jesus was there with Paul.

All I'm saying is that when we say, " the coming of Jesus", that we must define which coming it is. The first resurrection or second resurrection coming. There are only 2.

The first resurrection was Jesus, the second resurrection at the resur/rapt when he comes for the kingdom, those who are His, is the only other resurrection coming, the last one. After that there is no other resurrections. 2 ONLY.

 

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

If you believe in Jesus and that He died and rose again and saves us if we ask, then we agree.

 

[dad2]

Quote

 

The Roman Empire split into 10 (symbolic of complete division), after 476 ish AD.

Since then the Roman "Church" Bishop of Rome has been the image of the Caesar worship, not the Caesars themselves, but a religious Caesar worship, an image of the worship of Caesar (man, the creation) as supreme god.

Again see how there are no gaps in the iron legs through the the toes, but one continual time line. 

So you agree that the Roman Empire fell, but you are not recognizing that the legs of the Dan. 2 statue are continual without gaps where you say that they should appear.

You are waiting for the revived Roman Empire? It has been here for 1500 years.

 

 The posts are too long. I'll reply to one item here.

There is no 'gap' between kingdoms. There is different material that the image is composed of representing the different kingdoms. Rome is the legs of Iron. That is not a time thing. It is a kingdom thing. Notice the feet are different than the legs? The legs are done and gone. When we get to the feet that will be iron and clay. It also has ten kingdoms. The old Rome had nothing like that. The ten kings are not yet here. Neither is the final king revealed yet. So you don't get to try and insert thousands of years into the prophesy simply because there is iron in the toes. Of course there is, since it is the revived modern Roman Empire! Nothing to do with weeks or months or years or days. There is no Roman Empire today. There is no final king today. There is no ten kingdoms ruling today.

 Now if China and the US (or whatever) blow up half the world and the only major kingdoms left, or the major remaining kingdoms was the European  countries that used to be part of the old Roman empire, well then we might see a revived Roman empire. Stop looking for it before it gets here (however it might end up getting here we have no idea)

 

[dad2]

Quote

 

Show me the scripture that says, "Jesus clobbers them after returning to earth."

Jesus will not be returning to planet earth, except to come in the air for the kingdom. That is the 2nd and last resurrection, 1 Cor 15:23-24.

 

 

Revelation 19:15, KJV: "And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."

 

Zec 13

² For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

³ Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

⁴ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

⁵ And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

⁶ And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

⁷ But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

⁸ And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

⁹ And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

¹⁰ All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

¹¹ And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.