Is it better to save feelings, or save souls?

[David1701]

5 minutes ago, Arrabon said:

Actually, my brother @david1701, God in His COMPLETE WORD, speaks of both as a unifying way to reach the lost.

Again, not one way or the other, but both, together, character and the words of Christ, combined, to get a truthful response from someone's heart.

Even though these 2 Godly ideals are mentioned separately in scripture, the unity and harmony of scripture brings them together, to work together, not separately as you suggest.

I did not suggest that they were separate.  What I said was that preaching the word is the more important, regarding saving souls, not that loving character is unimportant.  The Scripture I quoted, also from 1 Cor. proved my point, but you changed the subject.

Edited July 20, 2021 by David1701

[Arrabon]

6 minutes ago, David1701 said:

The Scripture I quoted, also from 1 Cor. proved my point, but you changed the subject.

@David1701

No brother, I didn't change anything. I merely expanded on it, and added to it, to make this conversation between us more complete, and the information more complete, not just for you and I, but for those following this conversation, whether members or not.

I do believe our discussion has reached an impass, and we have said what we needed to say, and don't need to continue any further.

God bless you as you continue your search for the truth.

My name is Arrabon

[David1701]

26 minutes ago, Chicken coop2 said:

The holier than thou system doesn't work.  Like Jesus said: Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. 

There is no "holier than thou system"!  Pride is a serious sin and not part of evangelism.

The gospel is the power of God unto salvation, for everyone who believes.  This is true, whether we are holy or not; in fact, it's true even if an unbeliever preaches the gospel.

Of course we should be holy and loving, but that is not the power of God unto salvation.

There are many Christians, nowadays, who seem to think that we must not preach the gospel, unless we have built up a friendship with a person first, showing holiness and love, to get him to trust us.  This is simply untrue and not remotely biblical.

Have you ever watched any "Way of the Master" episodes, with Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron?  They show that it's possible to build a sufficient relationship (it doesn't take much), with a complete stranger, for personal witnessing, within two to three minutes!  Preaching to a crowd does not even need that.

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by David1701

[David1701]

6 minutes ago, David1701 said:

There is no "holier than thou system"!  Pride is a serious sin and not part of evangelism.

The gospel is the power of God unto salvation, for everyone who believes.  This is true, whether we are holy or not; in fact, it's true even if an unbeliever preaches the gospel.

Of course we should be holy and loving, but that is not the power of God unto salvation.

There are many Christians, nowadays, who seem to think that we must not preach the gospel, unless we have built up a friendship with a person first, showing holiness and love, to get him to trust us.  This is simply untrue and not remotely biblical.

Have you ever watched any "Way of the Master" episodes, with Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron?  They show that it's possible to build a sufficient relationship (it doesn't take much), with a complete stranger, for personal witnessing, within two to three minutes!  Preaching to a crowd does not even need that.

 

For @Chicken coop2: you gave me a "Huh, I don't get it?" emoticon.  Please let me know what, specifically, you don't get and I'll try to clarify.

Edited July 20, 2021 by David1701

[Riverwalker]

This is not about who is holier than someone else...we are all sinners  some saved some in need of salvation

This is about the truth of God that needs to be told, no matter how much they do not want to hear it

[David1701]

13 minutes ago, Chicken coop2 said:

There most certainly is. Perhaps not in Scotland.  And my 20 years in Korea I never saw such a thing.  But on many college campuses in the United States they would be screaming at students walking by that they are going to burn in hell forever based on what they looked like etc.  If you were wearing shorts for example.  In my case, my eye doctor gave me glasses that darken in uv light because it protects against eye cancer.  There was a predisposition for that in my family.  I was told only sinners, especially homosexals wear sunglasses to hide their shame and I was going to burn in hell for eternity because of it. 

Well, that "evangelism" was mind-bogglingly bad! 

I have only ever heard anything like that once in my life.  There was a Bible college student preaching in the local town square and he was doing almost exactly the kind of thing you describe.  The Bible college told him, in no uncertain terms, to stop preaching that way, because, as long as he was a student there, he represented the college and they wanted nothing to do with that kind of preaching.  He was a maverick.

[DeighAnn]

On 7/18/2021 at 7:21 AM, Riverwalker said:

We are so programmed by society today to thinking that we MUST NOT OFFEND that I think many Christian's are modifying the message and the truth, so as not to offend. 

I would suggest this approach is doing more harm than good. To make someone comfy on the road to hell is not our calling. This world has veered so far off of Gods path that we have justified killing babies in the womb, verifying numerous lifestyle choices, and vilified those who will tell the truth.

I am hear to tell you that it is okay to be such a "Villain"

The New Testament is full of men who "offended" Of men and women who defied the evil edicts of the established leadership  (both church and state) who demanded they shut up or face punishment.  From John the Baptist, to the Apostles, to many saints named and unnamed.  They faced death.  All of the Apostles save John were martyred, Peter, Paul, James Matthew, et all died as a direct result of not being quiet. They did not engage in rebellion to the established authority, but when the established authority required them to disobey God, they refused.

And of course the ultimate example is Jesus Himself....put to death by those who could not hear his voice and would not change.

Today each of us face a much softer opposition, but If we proclaim the truth we are called haters, homophobes, racists, and whatever else they can think of, to try and get us to shut up.  But we must not shut up. Because it is better to save souls, than to save feelings.

And I would rather be called a hater by man, and faithful servant by God, than to stand before God at the end of all things and try and explain why I let so many people pass by me on the way to hell without warning

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John 15:18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.

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Matthew 5:11-13

Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

---------------

Jesus is our example.  He told the hard truth in love, never condemning, but never compromising the truth and ALWAYS calling us to repentance,

So never compromise the message of Christ because it is an offense to this world. It has ALWAYS been an offense to the world .

Besides, if we step on a few toes we can always pray for healing:)

 

 

Hi River, Just to add on to what josheb wrote, a few more verses that

I love the way God puts it like when we hear

IT IS BETTER TO HEAR THE REBUKE OF THE WISE THAN FOR A MAN TO HEAR THE SONG OF FOOLS

 

Psalm 141:3 Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips.

Psalm 141:4 Incline not my heart to any evil thing, to practise wicked works with men that work iniquity: and let me not eat of their dainties.

Psalm 141:5 Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness: and let him reprove me; it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head: for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities.

How often does CORRECTION feel good?  Just the fact that facts are being given is enough for some to feel the 'tone' is just 'notasitshouldbe'.  

so maybe, ITs  in the tone
 

1 Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:

2 She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table.

3 She hath sent forth her maidens: she crieth upon the highest places of the city,

4 Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him,

5 Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled.

6 Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

7 He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot.

8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

or even

Proverbs 17:10 A reproof entereth more into a wise man than an hundred stripes into a fool.


Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.

 

[Arrabon]

12 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.

@DeighAnn

The problem with the application of this verse , is the application of this verse.

Many I have seen and experienced, took this verse as a license to "Shot-gun blast" with great joy, those they were attempting to share the gospel with, and then walk away, proud of themselves and say audibly, "I have done my job, and now it's up to them", leaving me standing there shocked, stunned and wondering how that could possibly happen.

No joke. I was flabergasted in the Lord.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Arrabon

[Riverwalker]

12 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Hi River, Just to add on to what josheb wrote, a few more verses that

I love the way God puts it like when we hear

IT IS BETTER TO HEAR THE REBUKE OF THE WISE THAN FOR A MAN TO HEAR THE SONG OF FOOLS

 

Psalm 141:3 Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips.

Psalm 141:4 Incline not my heart to any evil thing, to practise wicked works with men that work iniquity: and let me not eat of their dainties.

Psalm 141:5 Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness: and let him reprove me; it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head: for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities.

How often does CORRECTION feel good?  Just the fact that facts are being given is enough for some to feel the 'tone' is just 'notasitshouldbe'.  

so maybe, ITs  in the tone
 

1 Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:

2 She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table.

3 She hath sent forth her maidens: she crieth upon the highest places of the city,

4 Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him,

5 Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled.

6 Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

7 He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot.

8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

or even

Proverbs 17:10 A reproof entereth more into a wise man than an hundred stripes into a fool.


Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.

 

The one issue I have with this, is this is referring how to deal with fellow believers, (fellow Jews) and not presenting the Gospel to the Lost

Love and truth must go hand in hand, by themselves they are profitless.

The seed we plant today may be met with derision and scorn....but it is a seed planted.   Such a seed brought me into the light when I was in the darkest place of all

[DeighAnn]

9 minutes ago, Arrabon said:

@DeighAnn

The problem with the application of this verse , is the application of this verse.

Many I have seen and experienced, took this verse as a license to "Shot-gun blast" with great joy, those they were attempting to share the gospel with, and then walk away, proud of themselves and say audibly, "I have done my job, and now it's up to them", leaving me standing there shocked, stunned and wondering how that could possibly happen.

No joke. I was flabergasted in the Lord.

Hi Arrabon,

So easy, when you think about it, Flabergasted when you actually experience, how perfect Gods words and instructions are and

to discern between those who He has called  and those He hasn't called.  

Many shall come in my name.....and you have seen them and you know He may just say 'I never knew you'. 
If more of those who were called would do as they are commanded and rebuke in the name of the Lord those actually called and possessing the love of the brethren,  those things would cease to happen (but that is only in my opinion).  I think many Christians are in trouble today because those who are supposed to aren't and those who aren't suppose to are.  

 HOW can I say that?

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.  

Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

Revelation 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

To me, that is way to many....

Just saying....D