Your closest friendnt Posted July 31, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2021 9 hours ago, other one said: "We" are one.... How can we be one? How can you be one with those who have die? And how those who live can be one with you after you have die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted July 31, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,124 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,852 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted July 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said: How can we be one? How can you be one with those who have die? And how those who live can be one with you after you have die? "We" being the Father, Son, and spirit all being one. Actually though Jesus wants us to be one with him so we can also be one With the Father. Being one with someone does not mean that you are that person. God teaches that when we marry we become one with the person we marry. I don't think people understand the concept of being one with someone, and for that matter we really don't have the same concept of the word "god" that the Writers of the Bible had. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted July 31, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.56 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2021 2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: How can we be one? How can you be one with those who have die? And how those who live can be one with you after you have die? We (born again Christians) are dying physically, but our spirit is alive. When you die physically, your spirit is still alive. Those Christians who have died physically are still alive in spirit, so we are in union with them (one with them), in Christ. 2 Cor. 4:16 (Webster) For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted July 31, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, David1701 said: We (born again Christians) are dying physically, but our spirit is alive. When you die physically, your spirit is still alive. Those Christians who have died physically are still alive in spirit, so we are in union with them (one with them), in Christ. 2 Cor. 4:16 (Webster) For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. Please be patient with me so I do not get the impression that I still depend on milk. Your post begins with the words "we born again Christians", that statement make me think and I am wondering what are you implying with that. Is it that only the born again are one with God in Spirit because of Jesus Christ? I said "in Spirit", because Jesus said to be born from above from the Spirit of God. I accept that within that meaning because of Jesus Christ obedience all the way to the Cross. Does born from above includes obedience to Jesus Christ as we go along in Life including repentance and service towards him? What I am asking to clarify how many bodies or in other words groups Jesus Christ has. Or categories. Jesus mentions two groups to Peter "my lambs" and "my sheep", and sheep a third time. Jesus Christ besides the lambs he has two kinds of sheep, or why would you say my sheep twice. It is not frivolous what I say: because Jesus said to his disciples, and I put emphasis he said to his disciples the most dedicated to him being with him for quite some time with a rock solid faith to him. Jesus Christ said something to them and he never mentioned the word "faith" or "believe in me" or continue to believe in me because Jesus did not have any doubts about their faith in him and that's what he said to them: Abide in me, if you do not abide in me and he did not threaten them but he told them that they will be on their own. The disciples had no problem to connect to that because they were abiding in him and following him and doing what he was telling them for quite a few years. Did Jesus wanted to tell them knowing that he will not be with them the way they were used to him in physical presence and knowing that after his death and resurrection he will continue to be with them and teach them and asking them what to do and where to go and not to go, in other words managing their lives and their time. These believers in him as his disciples belong in a special group, or club of their own. Even though to them Jesus said and not to the general assembly of the born again. The believers in him. To them he said be one in mind with me and pay attention what I am asking you and do not take matters into your own hand. Actually Jesus did not say anything against taking matters into our own hands and managing our own time and missions so to speak to any scale, but he did say that to those whom he had plan their lives and they did not know his plants or at that very time they had a deferent vision about their future than the vision Jesus had plan for them. So what is this all about when he said to them . If you do not abide in me you will be cut off and throw in the fire? That can be really set the people in some strange derection. But Jesus only said that to his disciples before they were special and he had plan their lives and their time. He did not said anything about believing in him, he never questioned their faith. And they were still alive and he told them that while they were still alive and before they die that he will do that to them. Throw them in the fire and burn like dry branches. That's strange . Do you think that they were still part of his body even thought he throw them in the fire to burn like dry branches, because they never stopped being born again. They were still one with him and God. Were they not. Does one in the meaning of the example Paul gave has to do that we are in the blood of Jesus Christ, we are in his Atonement in his imputed righteousness and not our own. Does it? And we are both in his righteousness and in his Spirit because we believe in him. Even though he throw us in the fire to be burn and be consumed will come out of that fire refined. We will learn not to go our way when he says I need you now for something else, let go what you are planning or do and follow me. The fire is the fire of the Holy Spirit seeking to consume us till we obey him in what he asks us if he asks us. He might not ask us. But what about if he does? It is then profitable to be consumed by the fire because that would mean that he is asking us something and he wants our attention. Edited July 31, 2021 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted July 31, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.56 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2021 2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: Please be patient with me so I do not get the impression that I still depend on milk. Your post begins with the words "we born again Christians", that statement make me think and I am wondering what are you implying with that. Is it that only the born again are one with God in Spirit because of Jesus Christ? I wasn't implying anything hidden. All genuine Christians are born again. Yes, only those to whom God has given a new heart/spirit (i.e. those whom God has made born again) are one with God in Spirit; and it is because of Jesus Christ, the cross and his resurrection. Quote I said "in Spirit", because Jesus said to be born from above from the Spirit of God. Yes, right again! We are born from above, by the Spirit of God. Quote I accept that within that meaning because of Jesus Christ obedience all the way to the Cross. Does born from above includes obedience to Jesus Christ as we go along in Life including repentance and service towards him? God having made us born again, we have a new heart/spirit. This new heart/spirit has godly desires that result in godly actions, by the grace of God. Ez. 36:26,27 (Webster) 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. This is great; however, even though we have been born of God, we do all sin sometimes, because we still have our unresurrected flesh. A genuine Christian (one who has been born of God, a.k.a. born again, or born from above) is characterised by righteousness, but marred by sin. Quote What I am asking to clarify how many bodies or in other words groups Jesus Christ has. Just the one. Quote Or categories. Jesus mentions two groups to Peter "my lambs" and "my sheep", and sheep a third time. Jesus Christ besides the lambs he has two kinds of sheep, or why would you say my sheep twice. What you refer to here, is the threefold restoration of Peter, following his threefold denial of the Lord. The "lambs" are the young-in-the-faith Christians (but still sheep). The two mentions of sheep are because the Lord was restoring Peter to the fullness of his ministry, in three stages, following Peter's affirmations of love for the Lord, not because there are two kinds of sheep (there are young sheep, old sheep, Jewish sheep, Gentile sheep, white sheep, black sheep, etc., but they are all Jesus' sheep and that is what matters). Quote It is not frivolous what I say: because Jesus said to his disciples, and I put emphasis he said to his disciples the most dedicated to him being with him for quite some time with a rock solid faith to him. Jesus Christ said something to them and he never mentioned the word "faith" or "believe in me" or continue to believe in me because Jesus did not have any doubts about their faith in him and that's what he said to them: Abide in me, if you do not abide in me and he did not threaten them but he told them that they will be on their own. The disciples had no problem to connect to that because they were abiding in him and following him and doing what he was telling them for quite a few years. How do we abide in Christ? By God's grace, through faith in Christ; and, that faith results in good works. Quote Did Jesus wanted to tell them knowing that he will not be with them the way they were used to him in physical presence and knowing that after his death and resurrection he will continue to be with them and teach them and asking them what to do and where to go and not to go, in other words managing their lives and their time. These believers in him as his disciples belong in a special group, or club of their own. All those who are genuine believers in the Lord Jesus Christ are his disciples. The Lord still leads us (his disciples) nowadays, by the Holy Spirit, who lives in us. Quote Even though to them Jesus said and not to the general assembly of the born again. The believers in him. To them he said be one in mind with me and pay attention what I am asking you and do not take matters into your own hand. Actually Jesus did not say anything against taking matters into our own hands and managing our own time and missions so to speak to any scale, but he did say that to those whom he had plan their lives and they did not know his plants or at that very time they had a deferent vision about their future than the vision Jesus had plan for them. If we take the planning of our lives into our own hands, then we will make a mess of it! We need to seek God's leading and trust in him, not our own wisdom. In all our ways, we should acknowledge him and he will direct our paths. Quote So what is this all about when he said to them . If you do not abide in me you will be cut off and throw in the fire? That can be really set the people in some strange derection. There are "disciples" of Jesus who are disciples outwardly only. They may well attend meetings, read Bibles, sing praise and do the outward things that real Christians do; but, their heart/spirit has not been renewed (they are not born again). They are like dry, dead branches, hanging in a vine. They are in amongst the people of God ("in Christ" in this sense), but they have no life-giving sap of the Holy Spirit flowing through them. These are the ones who bear no fruit and are thrown in the fire. Quote Do you think that they were still part of his body even thought he throw them in the fire to burn like dry branches, because they never stopped being born again. They were still one with him and God. Were they not. The ones who are thrown into the fire never knew Jesus. They were never born again and never had eternal life. John 17:3 (Webster) And this is life eternal, that they may know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Matt. 7:21-23 (Webster) 21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out demons? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Quote Does one in the meaning of the example Paul gave has to do that we are in the blood of Jesus Christ, we are in his Atonement in his imputed righteousness and not our own. Does it? And we are both in his righteousness and in his Spirit because we believe in him. Even though he throw us in the fire to be burn and be consumed will come out of that fire refined. Those who are thrown into the fire (i.e. the fire of hell) are not refined. They are tormented day and night, forever and ever. Rev. 14:11 (Webster) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receiveth the mark of his name. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnR7 Posted August 1, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,907 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 614 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/03/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/06/1952 Share Posted August 1, 2021 On 7/24/2021 at 12:56 AM, Taylor_2021 said: Why does it say "Let us" make in "our" image, in "our" likeness....? God declares the end from the beginning. Even though Jesus finished the work at Calvary He is still doing a work in our life today so that we can be conformed to the image of Christ. We are joint heirs with Christ. "if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory." (Romans 8:17) In Psalm 139:16 God writes the book of our life at conception or before. So we are to become the person He created and intended for us to be. "all my days were written in Your book and ordained for me before one of them came to be. 17How precious to me are Your thoughts, O God, how vast is their sum!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted August 29, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2021 Colossians 1:13–16 (AV) 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Jesus Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. Jesus is the last Adam: 1 Corinthians 15:45 (AV) 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. So when he (Jesus) created all things created in the beginning (see Colossians 1:16 above plus John 1:3 plus Hebrews 1:2 plus Isaiah 44:24), he created the first Adam in the image of the last Adam to come: Genesis 1:26 (AV) 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Now we have two Creators here. Jesus created all things created in the beginning as I just pointed out (see Colossians 1:16 above plus John 1:3 plus Hebrews 1:2 plus Isaiah 44:24). Notice in the last passage that Jesus (preincarnate) did all the creating all alone / by himself: Isaiah 44:24 (AV) 24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; And notice that the human nature / human body God the Word would become (Jesus) is the only creation of the Father: John 1:14 (AV) 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. See also Hebrews 10:5 / Hebrews 1:5 to see this refers only to the body. Jesus Christ is God as much as the Father is God or the Holy Spirit is God in his Spirit (Colossians 2:9). John 5:18 and Philippians 2:6 also validate his equality with the Father. So in Genesis 1:26 we have Jesus (preincarnate) talking to the Father about how he is going to make the first Adam (and his offspring) in the image and likeness of how the Father is going to make his body in the future at that point. Let US make man in OUR image and after OUR likeness... remembering that Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:13-15 above). Adam = prototype. This also solves the puzzling statements how Jesus is the ONLY Son of God yet we are children of God and also this verse: Luke 3:38 (AV) 38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God. It would seem to be a contradiction until you learn that God the Father created the body of Jesus. His only creation. God the Word (who became God the Son in the incarnation) created everything else that was created (including the first Adam). The text could read: Luke 3:38 (my translation) 38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God the Word. Just like Genesis could read: Genesis 1:1 (my translation) 1 In the beginning God the Word created the heaven and the earth. Colossians 1: (AV) 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: The Father and the Holy Spirit were present (1 John 1:2 / Genesis 1:2) with God the Word... but God the Word acted alone by himself (Isaiah 44:24). Such creeds as "I believe in God the Father maker of heaven and earth..." are not true creeds, but the tradition of man based in the misinterpretation of scriptures by man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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