What are the roots from our faith?

[angels4u]

George was asking the question...

What are the roots from our faith?

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Angels4u,

What are the roots from our faith?

Let me just throw this out for thought and perhaps discussion:

From a tiny acorn, a mighty Oak grows. If we consider the analogy of a tree in discussing our "roots", MOST Christians from the cross forward, would have to conclude that the "root" of their faith is Jesus Christ. No knowledge or even acknowledgment of His Jewishness is even required to attain to Salvation, ONLY to believe that He is the Son of God and that He died for our sins. Mostly though, this applies to the Gentiles.

Jews on the other hand are almost always very much aware of their "Jewishness", and their lineage going back to Abraham. This is where THEIR "roots" are. It is steeped in a long history rich in tradition, holidays and worship days. One might say that their "roots" go back almost to the beginning of time.

On the other hand, our (gentiles, basically) "roots" only began about 2,000 years ago. We do in fact have rich traditions also that our early church fathers have left us with, but generally it is of suffering and identifying one's self with Christ.

Well, I'd better hold it here for now, in case someone wants to comment.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[angels4u]

Dad Ernie,

Everybody's roots go back to Adam and Eve.

But were did the Gentiles come from, also from Ham the son of Noah?

I know that Christianity started in Jesus time, but to tell you the truth I didn't study to topic to much but I am very interested in learning more about it...

Thanks for replying!

Angels

[five]

Went to a Hebraic Roots of Christianity conference and it sure did open my eyes. Everyone should go to one or get a Messianic Jewish speaker at your church! Believers have Hebrew roots through the lineage of Yeshua (Hebrew name for Jesus), that connects us to the Abrahamic covenant.

Here is a link that may be of interest:

HEBRAIC ROOTS OF CHRISTIANITY

[Guest ShamashOfYeshua]

We non-Jews must remember that We are Grafted IN. Where as the Jews were already Grafted in. When they are brought to believe in Yeshua which from what I have heard and read in places that that Name means YHWH's Salvation. Remember we have ONE GOD and therefore we can't really have a definition of YHWH, Yeshua, and Rauch because they are all one and the same. Let me put the statement this way: Can a Finite Being define a Infinite Being.

Have to remember again as I said we Non-Jews are GRAFTED IN to the Vine. When someone comes along that doesn't understand what living the Torah and Prophets is then they tend to want to convert the Jew away from what YHWH has commanded from the beginning and He didn't change. It is us Non-Jews who are converted to the Faith in YHWH's Salvation. Not the other way around. Now a Jew who doesn't yet understand that Yeshua is in fact YHWH's Salvation then of course they aren't going to believe.

The Good News According to Matthew

5:17 Don't think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the Torah, until all things are accomplished. 19 Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

The Good News According to Matthew

23:1 Then Yeshua spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, 2 saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees sat on Moses' seat. 3 All things therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do, but don't do their works; for they say, and don't do.

We still must obey what YHWH tells us for HE never changed. HE has been the same since the beginning. He gave us the Torah and the Prophets to teach us to live Seperate from the World. Yet we see so many teaching the nations to go against the Teachings which Torah basically means.

May the peace that transcends all understanding be with you,

Tag

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings ShamashOfYeshua,

Have to remember again as I said we Non-Jews are GRAFTED IN to the Vine. When someone comes along that doesn't understand what living the Torah and Prophets is then they tend to want to convert the Jew away from what YHWH has commanded from the beginning and He didn't change. It is us Non-Jews who are converted to the Faith in YHWH's Salvation. Not the other way around. Now a Jew who doesn't yet understand that Yeshua is in fact YHWH's Salvation then of course they aren't going to believe.

I am not sure, but I think you are placing TOO much emphasis on the LAW, (literally the OT) and not enough on the NT.

For certain the law was given to bring men to a KNOWLEDGE of their sinful nature and the NEED for an outside source (Jesus) to bring about repentence, and continues to do so to this day, but it in no way, causes justification and impartation of righteousness to UNHOLY man - ONLY Jesus can do that. "The Law is good if used lawfully."

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Look at the following very carefully:

Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Do you realize that Jesus is herein saying that JB was GREATER than Moses? Why? Because he preached JESUS! NOT THE LAW!

The Jews have to recognize that there IS a solution for their corrupt condition, and HIS NAME IS JESUS! Or in Hebrew Yeshua. But for most Jews today, they do not recognize their individual sin, and in fact "salvation" of the individual is not really a question. They tend to apply the "law" nationally, and not personally. They also believe that THEY are the CHOSEN PEOPLE of God, but the NT shows that ONLY those of the Faith of Abraham who believe in Jesus Christ ARE THE CHOSEN.

We owe Jews (on the account of the Jewish Fathers) a great debt, one which we MUST repay by teaching them of the Love of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The "LAW" will not be done away with until EVERYTHING is accomplished, but we have to insist that it is by Jesus Christ that GRACE and TRUTH came.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest Yhudah]

''

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Yhudah,

The Bible makes it clear that God has two special peoples:

Israel and the Church.

According to Ephesians 1-3, God is currently building a "habitation" wherein He shall dwell through His Holy Spirit. (2:22) It consists of Jew and Gentile and there IS NO OTHER NAME on earth or in heaven by which either Jew or Gentile can be saved. God has ONLY one plan of salvation. The difference we see now between Jew and Gentile is the matter of the "timing" of their salvation. The current "age" is to fill the Kingdom of God with Gentiles, and toward the end of it, will soften the Jews heart to receive the Gospel and thus secure their admission into the Kingdom.

So yes, there are certainly two groups, but ONLY one in Christ - the two groups are made one in Him.

We do indeed agree much on many things, and I appreciate your input and your heart.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest ShamashOfYeshua]

Greetings ShamashOfYeshua,

Have to remember again as I said we Non-Jews are GRAFTED IN to the Vine. When someone comes along that doesn't understand what living the Torah and Prophets is then they tend to want to convert the Jew away from what YHWH has commanded from the beginning and He didn't change. It is us Non-Jews who are converted to the Faith in YHWH's Salvation. Not the other way around. Now a Jew who doesn't yet understand that Yeshua is in fact YHWH's Salvation then of course they aren't going to believe.

I am not sure, but I think you are placing TOO much emphasis on the LAW, (literally the OT) and not enough on the NT.

For certain the law was given to bring men to a KNOWLEDGE of their sinful nature and the NEED for an outside source (Jesus) to bring about repentence, and continues to do so to this day, but it in no way, causes justification and impartation of righteousness to UNHOLY man - ONLY Jesus can do that. "The Law is good if used lawfully."

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Look at the following very carefully:

Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Do you realize that Jesus is herein saying that JB was GREATER than Moses? Why? Because he preached JESUS! NOT THE LAW!

The Jews have to recognize that there IS a solution for their corrupt condition, and HIS NAME IS JESUS! Or in Hebrew Yeshua. But for most Jews today, they do not recognize their individual sin, and in fact "salvation" of the individual is not really a question. They tend to apply the "law" nationally, and not personally. They also believe that THEY are the CHOSEN PEOPLE of God, but the NT shows that ONLY those of the Faith of Abraham who believe in Jesus Christ ARE THE CHOSEN.

We owe Jews (on the account of the Jewish Fathers) a great debt, one which we MUST repay by teaching them of the Love of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The "LAW" will not be done away with until EVERYTHING is accomplished, but we have to insist that it is by Jesus Christ that GRACE and TRUTH came.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Greetins Dad Ernie,

Am I? I think the people in the Church which really is supposed to be Assembly places too much on the NT and just throws out the OT. If you read the scripture I quoted you can see that the Messiah DIDN'T ABOLISH the Torah which is mis-translated Law. There is more scripture that can and does show that YHWH didn't change and never will change since the beginning. He gave us the Torah which means instruction to live by. He told us what animals are bad to eat. He told us to not have sex out of marriage. He told us to rest on His Sabbath and yet the Church that has been taken over by the Gentiles since the Roman times has just changed what YHWH has taught.

Of course we Messianics do understand that the Torah won't save us, only Yeshua can, which means YHWH's Salvation since only YHWH is the ONLY ONE that can save and even FORGIVE SIN. You need to go back and reread with much prayer on the Tanakh(OT, which is also a mis-translation of the name of the First Covenant) For what was Yeshua TEACHING FROM when He was here? The Tanakh for the B'rit Khadashah(NT) wasn't even in existance then.

I will of course have to say all this with humbleness. Yet when one is corrected they tend to see it as not humble.

May the peace that transcends all understanding be with you,

Tag

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings ShamashOfYeshua,

I am not disparaging the thorough study of the Old Covenant or Old Testament - the Tenakh, and I even find that the Torah contains so much more for study than most people give it credit for. But it is pretty obvious from your tone and verbage that you hang more on the "law" than you do Jesus.

You won't find the Revelation of Jesus Christ in the Tenakh unless you have a pretty good knowledge of the New Testament. In it you will find:

1) Jesus Christ is first and foremost the central point of our salvation, knowledge and understanding. Paul states it plainly in Col 2:1-23. Please read it so I don't have to quote it.

2) In the NT we find the person of the Holy Spirit coming to dwell in the believer, even as He did in the Holy of Holies in the Solomon Temple. It is ONLY by Him that we gain understanding:

John 16:13-15 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

3) We also see that we have a New Command:

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

4) We also see the TRUE purpose of the Tenakh:

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

5) But Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ:

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

6) We are NOW under a NEW COVENANT:

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

It is not a Mosaic Covenant, or an Abrahamic Covenant, or an OT Covenant, or a Davidic Covenant, but a NEW COVENANT through the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.

As I said I do not disparage studying the OT for all its worth, because:

2 Timothy 3:15-17 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I believe that those who believe that the NT is the ONLY testament they need for their Christian walk are foolish and really need to get a hold of God. But I argue vehemently against those who believe the Torah or the Tenakh are our rules for daily living.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie