Any Southern Baptists on Worthy?

[Dennis1209]

First I'd like to mention, I don't like to identify or classify myself as a religion or denomination. Christianity is a faith and trust in One Person, not a set of different doctrines. 

The purpose of my thread, is to point out another sign of the times in which we live. I don't know if any of you know or are familiar with the late Pastor Adrian Rogers? A little background first:

We had our 197th year Homecoming last Sunday; and Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday we are having our Revival. One of our guest Pastor Speakers Monday, personally knew and worked with the late Adrian Rogers. From memory and a quick check, I believe Pastor Rogers served three terms a President of the Southern Baptist Convention; not to mention many other accomplishments in the service to our Lord and Savior. 

The point I'm trying to arrive at is just an observation; how much and how rapidly things have fallen apart in churches in just the last few decades, beginning almost immediately after Pastor Rogers death. Shortly after his death, a SBC president was elected that disgraced Baptists, with all the sexual misconduct charges and allegations. Around this time is when members of the SBC started pushing and proposing the adoption and acceptance of politically correct philosophy and sin into its bylaws and doctrine. All about the same time all the Catholic pedophile charges were just coming to light.  

Being somewhat familiar with church history, I can think of no other time [including the inquisitions, crusades and reformation] the church has been attacked internally with such evil, with the doctrine and conduct of demons. 

The successful ecumenical all inclusive uniting of the worlds religions by the Pope. Bringing back the "protestors" and other religions, back under the umbrella of the one true ROMAN Catholic Church. That all religions worship the very same god, only called by different names in different cultures. Buddha, Allah and the other false gods are the same as the God Christians worship, but by a different name. 

We no longer need to speculate and guess what the end-times will look like. We are seeing it form right before our very own eyes. 

 Luke 18:8 (KJV) I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

[Starise]

4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

First I'd like to mention, I don't like to identify or classify myself as a religion or denomination. Christianity is a faith and trust in One Person, not a set of different doctrines. 

The purpose of my thread, is to point out another sign of the times in which we live. I don't know if any of you know or are familiar with the late Pastor Adrian Rogers? A little background first:

We had our 197th year Homecoming last Sunday; and Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday we are having our Revival. One of our guest Pastor Speakers Monday, personally knew and worked with the late Adrian Rogers. From memory and a quick check, I believe Pastor Rogers served three terms a President of the Southern Baptist Convention; not to mention many other accomplishments in the service to our Lord and Savior. 

The point I'm trying to arrive at is just an observation; how much and how rapidly things have fallen apart in churches in just the last few decades, beginning almost immediately after Pastor Rogers death. Shortly after his death, a SBC president was elected that disgraced Baptists, with all the sexual misconduct charges and allegations. Around this time is when members of the SBC started pushing and proposing the adoption and acceptance of politically correct philosophy and sin into its bylaws and doctrine. All about the same time all the Catholic pedophile charges were just coming to light.  

Being somewhat familiar with church history, I can think of no other time [including the inquisitions, crusades and reformation] the church has been attacked internally with such evil, with the doctrine and conduct of demons. 

The successful ecumenical all inclusive uniting of the worlds religions by the Pope. Bringing back the "protestors" and other religions, back under the umbrella of the one true ROMAN Catholic Church. That all religions worship the very same god, only called by different names in different cultures. Buddha, Allah and the other false gods are the same as the God Christians worship, but by a different name. 

We no longer need to speculate and guess what the end-times will look like. We are seeing it form right before our very own eyes. 

 Luke 18:8 (KJV) I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Even though there are doctrinal nits I have with the Baptist line in general, I was in SBC churches for a very long time. I had been in two churches that separated from the SBC. One a very long time ago who decided to go independent because they took issue with the funding and thought the money could have been better spent. More recently another church here in my area decided to do the same thing. Apparently that pastor who I am friends with, went to a few association meetings and seen a few things that caused him to flag them. I can only guess that this along with the things you mentioned caused the scale to tip them to go independent.

Since I haven't attended a Southern Baptist Church in quite awhile I wasn't aware of more recent developments which sadden me to read. My last info was more along the lines of how things might go or how things could go. I didn't realize things had degraded to this point.

Of all the denominations in the US I always viewed them as a bastion of Christianity in a room crowded with liberal goobledygook.

I recently had a family member who's dad died. This man was a staunch Baptist. He was responsible for the development of numerous patents and even at his advanced age was worth a lot of money. He left a lot of loot in his will to his local baptist church he had not attended in years. As it turns out the new pastor of that church is a gay female and probably the polar opposite of everything he believed in. When I first heard the story I thought it couldn't be true since most of the Baptist churches I am familiar with are nowhere near that liberal. After reading your post I'm beginning to wonder if it was in fact, true.

I would advise anyone thinking about leaving money to a church in your will to make sure you know more about the church because it could have changed over time.

Maybe the real solution for all of this is for all true bible believing churches to cut those strings and form new biblical alliances with local churches. 

The things you mention are happening all over. The sheep should be aware of the goats who are stampeding their denominations.

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, Starise said:

Even though there are doctrinal nits I have with the Baptist line in general, I was in SBC churches for a very long time. I had been in two churches that separated from the SBC. One a very long time ago who decided to go independent because they took issue with the funding and thought the money could have been better spent. More recently another church here in my area decided to do the same thing. Apparently that pastor who I am friends with, went to a few association meetings and seen a few things that caused him to flag them. I can only guess that this along with the things you mentioned caused the scale to tip them to go independent.

Since I haven't attended a Southern Baptist Church in quite awhile I wasn't aware of more recent developments which sadden me to read. My last info was more along the lines of how things might go or how things could go. I didn't realize things had degraded to this point.

Of all the denominations in the US I always viewed them as a bastion of Christianity in a room crowded with liberal goobledygook.

I recently had a family member who's dad died. This man was a staunch Baptist. He was responsible for the development of numerous patents and even at his advanced age was worth a lot of money. He left a lot of loot in his will to his local baptist church he had not attended in years. As it turns out the new pastor of that church is a gay female and probably the polar opposite of everything he believed in. When I first heard the story I thought it couldn't be true since most of the Baptist churches I am familiar with are nowhere near that liberal. After reading your post I'm beginning to wonder if it was in fact, true.

I would advise anyone thinking about leaving money to a church in your will to make sure you know more about the church because it could have changed over time.

Maybe the real solution for all of this is for all true bible believing churches to cut those strings and form new biblical alliances with local churches. 

The things you mention are happening all over. The sheep should be aware of the goats who are stampeding their denominations.

You mentioned some things I've thought upon and ran across also. 

What I commented about, most of which my source material was directly from the SBC meeting minutes, letters written by delegates, or creditable sources. I sort of stumbled upon everything by accident. I grew up attending Chatham Bible Church, an independent, God fearing, Gospel preaching, Bible believing church. I'll spare everyone the myriad of details in-between.

In 2016 when I repented and the Lord changed my life [that's another long story]; I was searching for a home church locally [recently retired to Tennessee], one that most closely fit my belief's. The Baptist Statement of Faith and Church Covenants perfectly fit my belief's. Further checking them out I ran across all the comments and controversy and law suits. It immediately reminded me of all the Catholic scandal's and pedophile charges.

I may have started attending my local Baptist Church when I found all this out. Anyway, I love my brothers & sisters in Christ at this church, their belief's and preaching are spot on with my faith. I am now considering becoming a member, but I want some of my questions answered first. I quizzed my pastor, asking him if he was aware of what was going on with SBC. Yes he was. Are we in any way associated with them? No, we are an independent church. Where does this 6% of tithe and offering money go? To support missions and missionaries. Found my home church and have been a member for about four years now.

The point that struck me the hardest was; unless I was dumb and naïve in my adulthood, these things were not occurring here in America. Bi-sexual and lesbian church pastors; homosexual pastors; congregation acceptance of it all; cowering to government mandates and ordering churches closed; political correctness; false gospel's; prosperity gospel's; etc. Where is the misnomer of the separation of church and state liberals are so keen to bring up?

Our guest pastor was pastor of our church a long time ago, before the days of air conditioning. He mentioned back then our church was usually packed during homecoming and revivals. When he was a kid, he use to ride his bike to services, and there was a lot of kids here. I remember the number of adults and kids attending church in my younger years. I see the number of local churches around here closing their doors because of poor attendance and lack of funds to pay the bills.

All this to say; I suppose our church (at 197 years old), is a prime example that most of the community doesn't ever attend church anymore. At 69 years old now, most of the other members of our church are older than me. There are very, very few children or young adults that attend here. Unless we get off our rumps and get fired up for the Lord, I don't see a 200th anniversary. 

It appears Satan and his minions are in overdrive in Christian churches today. 

[Starise]

16 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

You mentioned some things I've thought upon and ran across also. 

What I commented about, most of which my source material was directly from the SBC meeting minutes, letters written by delegates, or creditable sources. I sort of stumbled upon everything by accident. I grew up attending Chatham Bible Church, an independent, God fearing, Gospel preaching, Bible believing church. I'll spare everyone the myriad of details in-between.

In 2016 when I repented and the Lord changed my life [that's another long story]; I was searching for a home church locally [recently retired to Tennessee], one that most closely fit my belief's. The Baptist Statement of Faith and Church Covenants perfectly fit my belief's. Further checking them out I ran across all the comments and controversy and law suits. It immediately reminded me of all the Catholic scandal's and pedophile charges.

I may have started attending my local Baptist Church when I found all this out. Anyway, I love my brothers & sisters in Christ at this church, their belief's and preaching are spot on with my faith. I am now considering becoming a member, but I want some of my questions answered first. I quizzed my pastor, asking him if he was aware of what was going on with SBC. Yes he was. Are we in any way associated with them? No, we are an independent church. Where does this 6% of tithe and offering money go? To support missions and missionaries. Found my home church and have been a member for about four years now.

The point that struck me the hardest was; unless I was dumb and naïve in my adulthood, these things were not occurring here in America. Bi-sexual and lesbian church pastors; homosexual pastors; congregation acceptance of it all; cowering to government mandates and ordering churches closed; political correctness; false gospel's; prosperity gospel's; etc. Where is the misnomer of the separation of church and state liberals are so keen to bring up?

Our guest pastor was pastor of our church a long time ago, before the days of air conditioning. He mentioned back then our church was usually packed during homecoming and revivals. When he was a kid, he use to ride his bike to services, and there was a lot of kids here. I remember the number of adults and kids attending church in my younger years. I see the number of local churches around here closing their doors because of poor attendance and lack of funds to pay the bills.

All this to say; I suppose our church (at 197 years old), is a prime example that most of the community doesn't ever attend church anymore. At 69 years old now, most of the other members of our church are older than me. There are very, very few children or young adults that attend here. Unless we get off our rumps and get fired up for the Lord, I don't see a 200th anniversary. 

It appears Satan and his minions are in overdrive in Christian churches today. 

I believe many smaller congregations and new start up churches feel empowered by joining a larger group that hold their beliefs. In many cases the support systems are pretty good so far as pastoral oversight and guidance from a larger group of experienced elders. In that case the help goes both ways. 

I can only give you my personal experiences with the SBC since a lot of what happens isn't always something everyone attending knows all about. The SBC would be there for the church on a limited basis and only for some things. IOW not a very tight relationship with satellite churches so far as I could ever tell. They handled a large missions program and provided teaching materials to participating churches. The pastors would attend occasional association meetings which seemed more bureaucratic than spiritual in nature. Attending the meetings was a thing you did periodically as a member church. The SBC was hands off when it came to any internal activities at any given church. They provided candidates from their seminaries if needed. Even the local Baptist churches here in my area weren't "tight" with one another. The other church was just the church over the hill, but no sort of group activities or local meetings within that structure. I never seem many pastors teaming up for fellowship. People in one church might have no idea about the people in the other church only 10 miles away. This seems to have been pretty common in that area. The SBC churches sent out a percentage of their money to be handled by entities within the SBC probably much like many other denominations. You really have to TRUST that what they are doing is ok. Since the SBC is so large I don't think we could use one or two examples, yet I have heard that there have been abuses of the funds. One of the things a few didn't  like was the huge salaries the SBC was paying out to some of it's execs at the state level. This can be particularly troubling when the church can't afford to pay the local pastor a decent salary. 

By comparison, the denomination I am now a part of has a very tight relationship with surrounding churches at the personal level, we pray for our sister churches and keep abreast of what's going on with them. Pastors and elders have regular meetings to discuss things and stay on the loop.

This doesn't appear to be any concern for you if you attend an independent Baptist church. The potentially negative thing about independents is there are NO checks and balances unless they exist within that church. If the pastor goes off the deep end only the congregation and elders can put it in check. If an elder is messing up less people are likely to be aware of it. If some of the teaching isn't really right there's no one there to check it. This is one of the things I came across. There were some odd things being said with no basis and no one was doing anything about it. No alternate views were offered on things that really had alternate views. I think this is pretty common because Baptists hold to certain beliefs come hell or high water. If you agree with them fine. If not realize things will never change. This isn't just in Baptist churches but in many others. If these views are somehow misleading people I think there are much larger fish to fry.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Starise

[Sower]

On 7/27/2021 at 8:35 AM, Dennis1209 said:

First I'd like to mention, I don't like to identify or classify myself as a religion or denomination. Christianity is a faith and trust in One Person, not a set of different doctrines. 

The purpose of my thread, is to point out another sign of the times in which we live.

I go to an autonomous  baptist church, about 140 yr old, the same one for about forty years. My only church home. We pulled out of the SBC maybe thirty years ago.  Now belong to a small local association.
We still go there because we are a 'part' of this local body, our given functions, and have no reason to leave.
It has become our 'spiritual' family. It's not like a club to frequent, but a family of living/dying people we have known and watched grow and get married have kids  together with our kids/grand kids, and then are taken home. We all have felt the joys and troubles each of our families have  experienced, with laughs and with tears.
We have had problems as does any church family, just like the first body of believers centuries ago. But we don't all leave when the enemy causes turmoil within, but work out the issues, Personal and doctrinal. Confess and forgive and press on.
Would have preferred to have been an Independent Baptist, which most are very mission oriented, supporting missionaries direct with no middle man.
Our pastor teaches truth, Jesus Christ and him crucified. Have yet to hear anything to cause concern doctrinaly, and if I did he would welcome discussion. I do not keep up with the latest SBC issues, or any other denominations particularly. Keeping myself in line is full time work.
When I witness to seekers, I may be ask where would I recommend them to find a church to go to. I always tell them to find a small baptist church to start, more friendly and personable, and as the baptist core doctrines typically line up with scripture. I suggest when later when they get understanding, if they want to try other churches, to pray and seek out another church home. 
I would say the average age at our church has risen maybe 15-20 years since We started there. At my son's and daughters churches, they are more general younger age, and there churches are growing. (And not baptist)
Was not aware of some of what has been mentioned here about SBC, but knew they had problems.
Our church has its problems just like any. But I praise God they're not doctrinal.
 

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, Sower said:

I go to an autonomous  baptist church, about 140 yr old, the same one for about forty years. My only church home. We pulled out of the SBC maybe thirty years ago.  Now belong to a small local association.
We still go there because we are a 'part' of this local body, our given functions, and have no reason to leave.
It has become our 'spiritual' family. It's not like a club to frequent, but a family of living/dying people we have known and watched grow and get married have kids  together with our kids/grand kids, and then are taken home. We all have felt the joys and troubles each of our families have  experienced, with laughs and with tears.
We have had problems as does any church family, just like the first body of believers centuries ago. But we don't all leave when the enemy causes turmoil within, but work out the issues, Personal and doctrinal. Confess and forgive and press on.
Would have preferred to have been an Independent Baptist, which most are very mission oriented, supporting missionaries direct with no middle man.
Our pastor teaches truth, Jesus Christ and him crucified. Have yet to hear anything to cause concern doctrinaly, and if I did he would welcome discussion. I do not keep up with the latest SBC issues, or any other denominations particularly. Keeping myself in line is full time work.
When I witness to seekers, I may be ask where would I recommend them to find a church to go to. I always tell them to find a small baptist church to start, more friendly and personable, and as the baptist core doctrines typically line up with scripture. I suggest when later when they get understanding, if they want to try other churches, to pray and seek out another church home. 
I would say the average age at our church has risen maybe 15-20 years since We started there. At my son's and daughters churches, they are more general younger age, and there churches are growing. (And not baptist)
Was not aware of some of what has been mentioned here about SBC, but knew they had problems.
Our church has its problems just like any. But I praise God they're not doctrinal.
 

Your church and thoughts sound like they mirror my own. Our middle person, so to speak, is Western District, where many to most of our area Baptist churches are members. A percentage of our tithes and offerings go to them, and they administer the funds to support our missions and missionary work globally. 

I've only been a member there for five years, we've had interim pastors, guest speakers and two pastors now. I've never heard anything non-biblical, I love my church and brothers & sisters. 

I understand there has been a number of divisions and splits through the years in our church. I was attending when another one occurred, having to do with our former pastor. Half the congregation wanted him canned for reasons not relevant for discussion, and the other half didn't. But the way they handled it was not biblical or fair. Gossip is another thing that rears its ugly head on occasion. This gossip is slander and destructive, not edifying and uplifting one another. 

One thing I did ask about after becoming a member, that seemed out of place. Instead of "deacon's" in our church, now we have what are termed "trustees". I asked about their role in the governance and serving the church? Basically what I was told is; it mostly boils down to legal personal responsibility for financial and legal church matters? I suppose it is not a biblical command or mandate a church has to have deacon's. My thoughts and questions came from the requirements of a deacon in 1 Timothy 3:, as compared to no requirements for a trustee. But anyway...

I was raised in a Christian church and accepted the Lord Jesus as my Savior. Spent many decades as a backslider until the Lord performed a miracle once again in my life: Philippians 1:6 (KJV) Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Being a new member of this church, I never experienced anything like this before. My reaction was to flee, flee to another Baptist church that didn't have these internal conflicts. And I did for a couple months. Long story short, but with prayer and thought I returned. There is no doubt in my mind the Lord lead me to this church. He didn't lead me their just to flee when any conflict arises. Since then I've come to realize, our problems are not unique to the church. As a matter of fact, from a little study and observation, it seems Satan has become much more active in the church today. 

When towns, areas, settlements and locations were founded and occupied. One of the first things, if not the first, was to build a church [Shady Grove Baptist Church; circa 1824]. If my area is indicative of the nation in general, many of the community churches have closed their doors, due to lack of attendance and funds. Until recent history, the church was the center, the backbone, and gathering place of a community. So much has and is changing in my lifetime alone.