Heaven and a spiritual Rapture

[Brad]

Jesus said to the Pharisees that they did not go into heaven at the present time in:

Matthew 23

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

This should give some reasonable doubt that one must wait to die or be physically caught up to enter into heaven. There are other texts of scripture that say we are raised and others that say we shall be caught up. Some are for the third heaven and the others for the new heaven. People in the third heaven drift in and out because of their week-ness to the flesh, but as they overcome they will be pillars in the temple of God.

[wordsower]

George is right Brad, on the new Jerusalem and the fact that we are seated with Christ Jesus and have authority in Him.

I never said we weren't seated with Christ. Quite the opposite, I was saying that though that is in the spiritual realm, we can claim that authority right now in the physical realm.

I said you were right, that we were ARE seated with Christ, maybe you misread my typing

Brad that last post makes no sense. Jesus told them that they shut up heaven to men by thier blasphemy and they don't go in or permit anyone else to with their unbelief.

[Brad]

Word Sower

The last post was just a cut and paste from my book. I'm sorry I did not mean to make it look like I was defending anything. We are in agreement all of us on everything so far that I can see.

It good to know we can enjoy a spiritual heaven right here right now with Jesus and each other. Even though I cannot physically see you all I can see Jesus and His love in you all.

[George]

Must have misread that somehow! It's easy to do! This is why I like to reiterate any misunderstandings early. It's amazing how these things clear themselves up when COMMUNICATION takes place.

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

[Brad]

That means the third heaven has a few problems in it like, what happens after the 1,000 years when Satan is released from the Abyss for a short time to try and deceive the nations is just one problem.

Actually the New Jerusalem from what I perceive in Scripture is after the 1000 year reign of Christ. I sincerely doubt that the 3rd heaven has problems in it.

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

Good point George I'll reword that statement. As we are seated in heavenly place right now with Christ we also live in this world of sin. This present heaven and earth will some day past away and a new heaven and new earth will be created and we will then live with Christ forever where we will not be in a world as we now it now. Righteoueness will abound only, all memory of this world will be forgotten. It is true that the third heaven is perfect but the new heaven will be better. That is where we will have a glorified body. The time we spend in the third heaven is time sent spiritually with the Lord in these present bodies that we have.

[Brad]

I see a danger in Pre, Mid and Post Tribulation theories and that is this. A misinterpetation of Daniel 9:24-27. starting with verse 24. These Rapture theories all think that the Messiah has not brought in everlasting righteousness yet. That would mean the God's righteousness right now is not everlasting. And then these rapture theories also say that the Messiah has not been anointed yet, so they take the last weekof the seventy weeks determinded and spiritualize it into the future. Was Jesus not anointed as the most high when He was alive physically on the earth during His ministry. If not then why did the Father give all authority to Jesus His son and say this is my son listen to Him. And again why did the Father set His seal on Jesus John 6:27. Was Jesus not anointed when the Spirit desended as a dove upon Him? I don't know about a Messiah that is still waiting to be anointed all I know is that my Messiah has been aready. He also brought in everlasting righteousness through His blood that He shed. This Pre, Mid and Post Trib. Messiah that is to fulfill Daniel 9:24, people that believe that may be waiting forever and may never come to a place of rest being complete in Him.

Because they are looking for some world ruling antichrist based on Daniel 9:27 the first half of the verse, which is in truth referring to the Messiah, I believe they will be totally confused when Jesus appears to them like a thief in the night. Jesus Christ King of kings and Lord of lords is the only one I can see ruling over the nations, and with a rod of iron. I think many will believe Jesus to be the antichrist that they were waiting for to happen simply by one dangerous error, Daniel 9:24-27

[Guest shadow2b]

Seated in heavenly places is referring to our SPIRITUAL position as soon as we become a believer in Christ. This means we have at our disposal HIS authority to deal with the enemy if we so choose. "Behold, I give you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over ALL power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you." Luke 10:19.

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

HEYYYYYYYYYYyyy George bro. yepppppppp i totally agree, WE are[ so to speak] "seated" in heavenly

places WITH JESUS----or in other words WE,the church,the bride,the saints,the believers------

have been given BY JESUS--the AUTHORITY of HIS WORD & HIS { NAME} & by HIS shed blood to speak to GOD THE FATHER & we are now able to { bind,tieUP, prevent or demand the devil & his demons STOP attacking us...} I hope i got that right-----anyhow thanks bro.---------{Gary}

[Guest shadow2b]

it has been stated in "some" mormon teachings that they believe the church{lds} are right now seated in heavenly places with christ & that the HOLY SPIRIT speaks thru those IN the heavenlies & therefore it isNOT the one seated in the heavenlies speaking BUT is actually THE HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF speaking so every word that comes from the mouth of the believer IS TRUTH that canNOT be disputed.....I think i got that right but i'll go back to that site & check it out just to be sure...................GOD-BLESS--------{Gary}----- :upsided:

[Brad]

it has been stated in "some" mormon teachings that they believe the church{lds} are right now seated in heavenly places with christ & that the HOLY SPIRIT speaks thru those IN the heavenlies & therefore it isNOT the one seated in the heavenlies speaking BUT is actually THE HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF speaking so every word that comes from the mouth of the believer IS TRUTH that canNOT be disputed.....I think i got that right but i'll go back to that site & check it out just to be sure...................GOD-BLESS--------{Gary}----- :upsided:

Sounds like they are forgetting about the fact that the Holy Spirit uses our body to speak through which would mean that we all are subject to human error. But if we yeild fully to the Holy Spirit He can speak through us fully or to what ever degree we yeild ourselves to Him.

[Guest dove2]

Some are for the third heaven and the others for the new heaven. People in the third heaven drift in and out because of their week-ness to the flesh, but as they overcome they will be pillars in the temple of God.

What? I don't understand this at all.