Spiritual Gifts

August 24, 2005

Look at these verses:

1 cor 13 vs 8-11:

Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.

For we know in part and we prophecy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man a man, I put away childish things.

Ephesians 4 vs 11-16

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head - Christ - from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

For me, and my church, and the American Baptist Association, the knowledge of the unity of the faith, the perfect thing is - THE BIBLE

We have a reference point for our faith which is complete- from which we have a more sure word of prophecy- the WORD OF GOD.

I don't know whether anyone here is aware of this doctrine, but I want you all to know this, to not be ignorant, to know this doctrine.

The scripture is worthy for rebuking, reproof and correction

from

netwattie

August 24, 2005

But there are spritual gifts that I should have mentioned which have not ceased- FAITH, HOPE and LOVE.

1 Cor 12 - 13

For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. And now abide faith, hope, love, these three, but the greatest of these is love.

So there you go,

what do you think?

Avodah · August 24, 2005

But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

This part of the scripture talks about when, Jesus comes back. As far as I know he hasn't yet, or I am sure I wouldn't be here

All the gifts are still available and in use.

Blessings to you!

EricH · August 24, 2005

This passage cannot be used as a proof text thay certain of the sign gifts are no longer functional. There is not a clear understanding of what the "perfect" is.

seraph · August 24, 2005

If "that which is perfect" is the Bible, so those who believe that tongues and prophecy have ceased when the Word of God was written completely, what about the gift of knowledge since that is also mentioned along with tongues and prophecy?

1 Corinthians 13:8 (CSB) Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for languages, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end.

Leonard · August 25, 2005

Yes, I have heard that before....from various churches which, in these last days do indeed "have a form of godliness BUT DENY THE POWER THEREOF! FROM SUCH, TURN AWAY!!!"

August 25, 2005

Thanks for your feedback guys,

Firstly, if you put Jesus in as the perfect thing- as the second coming of Christ, it doesn't really make that much sense.

Look at that fact that there are spiritual gifts of faith hope and love that remain- now if this was talking about Jesus, there would be nothing left after he comes back- because we wouldn't need faith, hope and love in heaven- we would be perfect and complete.

Also the word 'perfect' when you go to the original hebrew text- means - 'completion'

Jesus and his plan has never been incomplete. Remember that the whole passage is referring to something that is in part- and the thing that is perfect is the same thing that is in part- prophecy and tongues and knowledge.

And ya, I am referring to knowledge as well- as the gift of knowledge.

I do believe- as my church does in the fruits of teh spirit- brotherly kindness, patience, kindness, mercy, love etc. We love them! It is the bread and butter of being a christian.

But ya, also with Ephesians 4- the knowledge of the unity of the faith- some believe this is the church being whole- but remember that 'the church' as a universal thing is not really that sound either. The church when used in the bible always referred to the church that the book was addressed to- not all the churches combined into one universal whole. When you get back to the original meaning of church- it refers to a 'general assembly'- a local body of believers.

Also my teaching is the body of christ is a local church- and not the universal family of god- that is the kingdom of god.

But anyways, it will be good to hear from you guys again

from

Michael

Sanctyfied · September 3, 2005

I notice that those who say there are no spiritual gifts, are the ones who don't have them. lol

That's funny. But it is also Sad, Denying the Power of Jesus is the worst thing to ever teach a child of God.

If you should cause any of these to stumble. It would be better to have a millstone tied around your neck and to be thrown into the bottom of the sea.

Are you for real?

Do you really believe there are no Gifts anymore?

What the Bible tells me is that Jesus says. I am the Same Yesterday, Today, and Forever.

Can you actually say that He no longer does these. When they happen on a daily basis?

Yes even Today.

I noticed that you cut off the rest of the verses in those Scriptures.

Not a good thing.

May God Bless you.

I'm sorry I don't mean to offend anyone. It just gets me when People say that Jesus has no Power anymore.

I have seen these Gifts. All of them first hand. Noone could ever take that away from me. lol

Jesus Is Alive not dead.

September 4, 2005

The gifts of the spirit are as active today as in the book of Acts.

justme7 · September 4, 2005

wow! while i do not believe that spiritual gifts have ceased (because i believe that, 'that which is perfect' is JESUS CHRIST), i do believe that this can be taken out of context. i think that the Word tells us later in the same book guidelines for some of these gifts. this is such a touchy subject!

when i first got saved, i went to a church of the denomination belief that gifts (prophecy, tongues, miracles) had ceased. they aimed to teach me that the Bible is that which is perfect. when i moved a year later, i found myself in a different church....whose denominational belief was that the gifts do exist; that each believer has access to each one if their faith is strong enough, and that not only was tongues a gift, but a requirement and mark of true acceptance. needless to say, that is alot of confusion. as far as i am concerned there is a more balanced and right interpretation of scripture. reading on my own, i am led to believe that all gifts do still exist. i do not myself expect to see the miracle of healing every day or in every service, but know that GOD is still a GOD of signs and wonders. i do not expect to hear prophecy every day or in every service and know that the test of a true prophet is whether his/her words are shown to be true. i do not expect to see and hear tongues in every service, but know the Biblical guidelines for tongues and know they do still exist. i believe that GOD is able at any time to bring about change, revelation, revival in any way HE chooses. HE is a GOD without limits.

as for my personal experiences, i found both the doctrinal beliefs above (personally) to be extreme and inaccurate.