Why waste the energy?

[Assisi]

OK, why is it a lot of fundamentalist Christians waste both their time and mine trying to convince me that IM wrong and THEIR right. Dont we both believe in the same Savior/Creator? How come because I believe my church's institution should be visible, LIKE CHRIST SAID IT SHOULD, and that makes me a follower of the Anti-Christ? Why? Can anyone explain, without throwing a ton of Bible quotes at me? ( I dont mind a few but more than 10 and it gets hard to read) Well if u can Id appreciate it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah, but you just gave the answer yourself. It is because, not the visibility fo the Catholic church, but the TEACHING and practises of the Catholic Church, are unscriptural.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By who's authority do you make this statement and is this opinion infallible?

[SpiritLedEd]

R.W. Schambach also claimed to raise a man from the dead.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tubal Cain:

You like to refer to Mark 16. There is a phrase in Mk 16:17 that you think means that these signs have to constitute a miracle-on-demand program - "And these signs will accompany those who believe: IN MY NAME THEY WILL......."

Check out Luke 11:29 - "As the crowds increased, Jesus said, '

this is a wicked generation. It asks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.' " That's another proof that no one can order up miracles like you would order a Big Mac at McDonald's. Also, in Exodus 33:19b, the Lord told Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

It may be that someone was resurrected in one of R. W. Schambach's meetings. If it did happen, it was not because God was required to do it. Nor was it a product of some kind of spiritual assembly line. It was a voluntary, sovereign act on the part of our Creator.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, Luke 11:29 does say that there would be no signs, but you and I have both read that there were many signs. Signs accompany those with faith in God.

In John 20:30 Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.

In Acts 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know."

It baffles me why people want to be known as christians, yet they do not want to put any effort into achieving the things that their god said they would achieve if they were true believers. You just want to pay lip service and make up excuses why the bible doesn't really mean what it clearly says. You don't want the truth, because the truth would require you to prove something...your FAITH!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tubal Cain,

Thanks for responding to my post of last evening.

The message of Jesus in Luke 11: 29 is that no miraculous signs will be given to those who refuse to believe. Jesus knew that the hearts of those Pharisees were frozen; that they had chosen not to receive His message despite the miracles that some of them had witnessed personally.

You are correct in your citation of John 20:30; Jesus did do more miracles than it was possible for John to record in his Gospel, but the fact remains that no miraculous signs were shown for the benefit of those who refused to believe.

You cite Acts 2:22, which does say that "Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know."

When you read the rest of Acts 2, you find that these words were spoken by the apostle Peter to a crowd of several thousand people and if you read through to the end of the story (verse 41), you'll see these words - "Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day."

So, yes, miracles were performed, but, as the verse you quote confirms, they were performed only for the purpose of accrediting Jesus to those who would choose to believe.

SLE

[HisWordIsSufficient]

I just wanted to say that I'm a non-christian but grew up Pentecostal. I remember reading religious tracts in church by a flaming fundy named Jack Chick telling me how Catholics were in the wrong.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

I just wanted to say that I'm a non-christian but grew up Pentecostal. I remember reading religious tracts in church by a flaming fundy named Jack Chick telling me how Catholics were in the wrong.

[HisWordIsSufficient]

Okay, so when I see a christian accompanied with those signs, I'll believe also.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But Tubal? Dont you walk by FAITH and not by sight???

Jesus said Blessed are those who believe and have not seen.

I have seen healings. And i believed them before i saw them. I recieved miraculous healing myself. But i never would have recieved it had i not believed in it. Faith in the word of God is essential if you call yourself a "Christian" or "Catholic" or whatever you are. If you have no faith in the word of God, which includes scripture that by the power of Christ (the anointed one and his anointing) we can do healings and the like.

What a God!

[SpiritLedEd]

R.W. Schambach also claimed to raise a man from the dead.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tubal Cain:

You like to refer to Mark 16. There is a phrase in Mk 16:17 that you think means that these signs have to constitute a miracle-on-demand program - "And these signs will accompany those who believe: IN MY NAME THEY WILL......."

Check out Luke 11:29 - "As the crowds increased, Jesus said, '

this is a wicked generation. It asks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.' " That's another proof that no one can order up miracles like you would order a Big Mac at McDonald's. Also, in Exodus 33:19b, the Lord told Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

It may be that someone was resurrected in one of R. W. Schambach's meetings. If it did happen, it was not because God was required to do it. Nor was it a product of some kind of spiritual assembly line. It was a voluntary, sovereign act on the part of our Creator.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, Luke 11:29 does say that there would be no signs, but you and I have both read that there were many signs. Signs accompany those with faith in God.

In John 20:30 Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.

In Acts 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know."

It baffles me why people want to be known as christians, yet they do not want to put any effort into achieving the things that their god said they would achieve if they were true believers. You just want to pay lip service and make up excuses why the bible doesn't really mean what it clearly says. You don't want the truth, because the truth would require you to prove something...your FAITH!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tubal Cain,

I have one more comment regarding this post of yours. The last paragraph begins with "It baffles me why people want to be known as Christians, yet they do not

want to put any effort into achieving things that their god said they would achieve if they were true believers."

True Christians are not after worldly recognition. We do not strive to climb some spiritual ladder of success for our own glory; we're not interested in engraved trophies to be put on mantelpieces to show spiritual prowess. The thing we want to "achieve" is eternal life with Him as promised in John 3:16. We see that as having a value far superior to any recognition of the kind you understand.

SLE

[Guest RJD Servant]

Hello

Well I believe in no religions whatsoever as Christ does not believe in them either.

There will not be a Baptist place in heaven or a Catholic or a protestant or etc........................... Because man made religions are not of God and the doctrines of men will not be there cheering Christ on.

I do not go to church because of the death of it and the wicked manner in which they care for the "church or dorctrine or denomination" then for the Souls of man and the will of God.

There Care is in Money prestige and want and desire to be the best religion, or doctrine or denominational machine that moves the people to there own desires.

They are full of false teachings and visions of there own making.

We are not of the same Jesus if we are for our religion and rituals and Statues, or Idols or repetitious prayers, if we worship as baal worshippers, When we raise our own believes above what God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit desires.

Jesus Said if I be LIFTED up I WILL DRAW ALL men UNTO ME!!!!

We lift up religion and denominations and popes, or priests or prophets, or pastors, or bishops or teachers or evangalists, or our Prosperity, mary, budda, mohammed, mary baker eddy, & our ritualism to it all.

I live for Jesus and him crucified and rose again with power to endue me with the grace and strength to live only unto the Almighty God who made the Heavens and the Earth. That the Bible says the Holy Spirit will be my Guide and Comforter and teacher leaning not on the Arm of Flesh but upon the Everlasting Arms of Jesus.

Then Live the truths that he left us with out taint of mans words and doctrines but believe what the word says word for word and line for line and not twist the Truth of God to become a Doctrine of Men making a god of our own image.

The Almighty God had this Word written so every individual could read it for themselves and come away with the truth of God in it.

He made it simple that Children can read it and know Christ and not have someone give Man indoctrinated interputations about it.

So become Simple with the Faith of a Child and start reading the truths that God has given each and every one of us for what he means is right before us.

If you have a doctrine of Man upon your truths you are not of the Same Christ that I serve because I destroy the doctrines of Men and stand in the Word of God Almighty Alone.

The demons believe and tremble they know who and what God is all about and the believe and tremble.

We do not seek the Lord God will ALL our HEARTS & SOULS & MINDS so that we can find CHRIST.

But we fall short before men to give us our pill of doctrine and give us what we want to hear for we are to lazy to find of out if what we know lines up with the Old Testament & the New Testament. Feed us a pill of religion and we are satisfied.

Take time to Evaluate Jesus Christ and get to Know Him by the Word of the Almighty God and Seek to Know his truths he preached unto men then come away from the False and Phoney and plastic world of religion around you.

When you seek this of the Almighty God he will not give you a stone in its place he will bring down to to you the Power and Anointing and Presence that you so desire with in the Walk of Christ and the Spirit of the Almighty in the Presence of the Holy Spirit will teach and reach you with the Fullness of the Gospel if you only Believe that he will give you what he gave the disciples in the days of old.

I will pray that God will draw you by his spirit to obtain what he desires for all of us his salvation and no other.

I pray you will become so hungry for the word of God that it will become the Light that will dispell the darkness in your faith and religion and the truths will be revealed.

Paul in the Bible wrote I counted all that I ever new as DUNG that he might know CHRIST in the POWER of HIS RESURRECTION. He counted all his religiosity that he had under Jewish teaching and all that the scollars taught him, Dung, manuer, garbage, trash, so that he could have a fresh slate to find Christ upon the Doors of his Heart untainted by the religions of his day and age.

I have been raised in Christ all my life and when I moved away from where I had been all my life with my Husband.

I told Christ that I wanted to count all that I know of and in the Lord as Dung that I might Know Christ in the Power of His RESURRECTION.

He has done that for me and many times I have had to remove the Fleshliness of mans teaching to see the Spirit brake through and teach me something new because I removed the obstical of the world and its religions around me.

I Know I Have CHRIST and will Obtain Heaven one day because He is who He says He is in the Word of the Almighty God.

I use the KJV Bible and it is a Thomson Chain Reference Bible it is the greatest gift that I can send or give any one who desires the True word of God. Find one if you can not I will send you one just ask.

God bring you to a new path in Christ and strength in His Word!!!

RJD Servant

[ColleenLovesMischief]

Tubal Cain,

I have one more comment regarding this post of yours. The last paragraph begins with

[Guest rapture]

Mary even called herself (...a maidservant of the Lord). Luke 1:38

Mary said she needed a Savior (...my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior) Luke 1:47

Sir, you said that you don't want to hear a bunch of quotes.

I can't answer your question without the Bible.

For there is one God and ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5

Mary was just a young teenage girl...she doesn't hear prayers...she doesn't dispense grace...she doesn't do anything now but worship the King!

My suggestion is RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN AWAY FROM THE TEACHING OF ROME!

[Pax]

Mary even called herself (...a maidservant of the Lord). Luke 1:38

Mary said she needed a Savior (...my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior)        Luke 1:47

Sir, you said that you don't want to hear a bunch of quotes.

I can't answer your question without the Bible.

For there is one God and ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.  1 Timothy 2:5

Mary was just a young teenage girl...she doesn't hear prayers...she doesn't dispense grace...she doesn't do anything now but worship the King!

My suggestion is RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN AWAY FROM THE TEACHING OF ROME!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like the Biblical Scholar Protestant Convert to Catholicism Scott Hahn said "Rome Sweet Home." It's a great book, you should read it. You can say what ever you want about the Catholic Church, but its teachings are sound and hold water. I was born and raised Baptist, but then started to really study theology. This led me directly to the Catholic Church.