The New Testament's Demons Are As Real As It Gets.

[missmuffet]

20 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

Well this is where it all breaks down for me.  Jude 6 Does not say "SOME" of the Angels who fell. It says The angels that "fell" are bound.

You can believe what you like of course, but all of that is man's opinion trying to construct a reality from a scattering of scriptures. But who ever that is taking liberties....adding assumptions that are not given  as in "Some"

If there is no actual scripture declaratively that demons are fallen angels, and there is a scripture declaratively stating that the angels who fell are bound up......I have to gowith that 

Can you give me scripture for the angels who fell are bound up. 

[Riverwalker]

25 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Can you give me scripture for the angels who fell are bound up. 

I have quoted it several times, and you even quoted it back to me

Jude 6 And the angels who did not keep their [c]proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

[missmuffet]

3 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

I have quoted it several times, and you even quoted it back to me

Jude 6 And the angels who did not keep their [c]proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

Are there 2 classes of fallen angels? Some in chains 2 Peter 2:4 and the rest let loose? Is Peter referring to the "son's of God" in Genesis 6 of those angels who are in chains?

[Kelly2363]

4 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

Well this is where it all breaks down for me.  Jude 6 Does not say "SOME" of the Angels who fell. It says The angels that "fell" are bound.

You can believe what you like of course, but all of that is man's opinion trying to construct a reality from a scattering of scriptures. But who ever that is taking liberties....adding assumptions that are not given  as in "Some"

If there is no actual scripture declaratively that demons are fallen angels, and there is a scripture declaratively stating that the angels who fell are bound up......I have to gowith that 

 

Of Angels, there are first, Seraphim.

Of Seraphim there is the eternal presence of God and His throne

Of Seraphim there are covering Cherubs going to and fro in their sphere of authority

Of Covering Cherubs there [was] Lucifer, the bright shining one, perfect in wisdom and beauty in the day he was created

Of Angels there are Arc Angels and there are Angels

Of Angels there are Captains of Hosts, and there are Hosts.

Those angels that took wives from among the daughters of Adam are now bound in blackest darkness in chains in a place called Tartarus. This is deepest region of Hell.

The unclean spirits that are also called demon are unspecified in the Scripture and there origination is not stated. What is given to us has to do with understanding how Satan strides between two kingdoms. The heavily and the earthly. What James expresses in wisdom as heavily wisdom and natural wisdom and of natural wisdom he speaks of such wisdom as being earth bound, natural and demonic. 

Demonic spirits are not angelic in origin and neither are they the disembodied spirits of the Nephalim. Whereas, their prince is called Beelzebub and refers to Satan as Gods' opponent and their prince - so Lucifer is the name that is given in the Latin Vulgate - but this name is not a true name and in fact the true name of Satan is not given in the Scriptures at all. Beelzebub means Lord of Flies and the Flies are the unclean spirits that are called demonic. Lucifer means the Bright Shining One and refers to his estate in the day that he was created.

It is a profound and serious mistake for believers to endeavour to uncover what God has hidden. 

[Riverwalker]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

Are there 2 classes of fallen angels? Some in chains 2 Peter 2:4 and the rest let loose? Is Peter referring to the "son's of God" in Genesis 6 of those angels who are in chains?

Both Jude 6 and 2 Peter are saying that the angels who fell are bound (chained) in darkness until judgement day

[Kelly2363]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

Are there 2 classes of fallen angels? Some in chains 2 Peter 2:4 and the rest let loose? Is Peter referring to the "son's of God" in Genesis 6 of those angels who are in chains?

 

Yes - there are two classes of angels and the first-class are in blackest darkness and in chains - the second are those of whom Paul spoke when he spoke about fighting not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers in high places. The angels that are in blackest darkness and in chains are in Tartarus - the deepest region of Hell - and the second class presently hold their estate in heavenly places. They are both wicked - but only the second class are able to effect wickedness. 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Kelly2363

[Kelly2363]

9 minutes ago, pinacled said:

[For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.]

 

Ole Sh'aul is speaking of fellow human beings in this warning. Nothing about corrupt angels allowed to traverse any form of heaven is ever mention in holy writ. Quite the opposite is what is taught.

Bless those that curse

pneumatikos (πνευματικός, 4152) “always connotes the ideas of invisibility and of power. It does not occur in the Sept. nor in the Gospels; it is in fact an after-Pentecost word. In the NT it is used as follows: (a) the angelic hosts, lower than God but higher in the scale of being than man in his natural state, are ‘spiritual hosts,’ Eph. 6:12

[Kelly2363]

23 minutes ago, pinacled said:

Ole Sh'aul is speaking of fellow human beings in this warning. Nothing about corrupt angels allowed to traverse any form of heaven is ever mention in holy writ. Quite the opposite is what is taught.

“I will not speak much more with you, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has nothing in Me;"

Is this speaking of a fellow human being? Is Satan now my brother?

Edited September 1, 2021 by Kelly2363

[missmuffet]

59 minutes ago, Kelly2363 said:

 

Yes - there are two classes of angels and the first-class are in blackest darkness and in chains - the second are those of whom Paul spoke when he spoke about fighting not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers in high places. The angels that are in blackest darkness and in chains are in Tartarus - the deepest region of Hell - and the second class presently hold their estate in heavenly places. They are both wicked - but only the second class are able to effect wickedness. 

I don't think hell is open as yet. But they are in Hades which is the waiting place for those who are going to hell at the end of the 1000 year millennium. 

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, Riverwalker said:

Both Jude 6 and 2 Peter are saying that the angels who fell are bound (chained) in darkness until judgement day

I don't think Satan is terrorizing this world alone. I think he has help. Satan always likes to copy God and God has his holy angels. So I think that at lease some of those who were thrown out of heaven are serving him.