Joel's Prophecies and the Day of the LORD

[Diaste]

The 6th seal is the sign of Jesus coming and the fear of the people of earth, not the beginning of wrath.

The 7th trump is the moment when Jesus appears and when wrath is to begin, which beginning falls after the gathering of the 7th or last trump. Only the 7 bowls are God's wrath and the onset of that wrath begins only after the last, or 7th, trump.

[not an echo]

On 9/14/2021 at 5:22 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi not an echo,

Big bite there to chew on. Good to see your research.

Now just a point, the word `day` in Hebrew means - `a specific day,` and also a `time period.`

The Day of the Lord reveals both.  

 

Marilyn.

Hello Marilyn,

I know you probably don't remember, but I talk about this some in the opening post of a thread I started in April of last year entitled, The Pre-Trib Rapture and the Day of the Lord (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/251771-the-pre-trib-rapture-and-the-day-of-the-lord/).

I had only been a member for a couple of months (a real newbie!), and you were the first one that responded to that thread as well---and with positive remarks.  Appreciate your replies, both then and now.

[not an echo]

On 9/14/2021 at 11:23 PM, Keras said:

 I believe that all of Joel refers to the end times, as none of it has been literally fulfilled yet. 

It can be said that some of Joel figuratively fits ancient events, but just partially and are only a precursor for the final fulfillment; yet to happen. 

Hello Keras,

So, you do not think any of Joel 1:1-2:11 has been literally fulfilled yet?  What causes you to take this position?

[not an echo]

On 9/15/2021 at 2:19 PM, WilliamL said:

On 9/14/2021 at 1:31 PM, not an echo said:

In verse 16, Peter declares, "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel."  And what was that?  Peter begins by quoting this part of Joel's prophecy, which related to what was then happening.  Consider from Acts 2:

 17  And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh:  and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

On 9/14/2021 at 1:30 PM, not an echo said:

In Joel 2 it reads, ...

 28  And it shall come to pass AFTERWARD, that I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh;

Note that Peter did NOT accurately quote Joel 2: he [apparently, unless he was misquoted] changed "it shall comes to pass after that" to "it shall come to pass in the latter days."

"After that" is the accurate reading both in the Hebrew text and in the Septuagint text.

Hello William,

You say, "Note that Peter did NOT accurately quote Joel 2..."  Do you mean by this that you think Peter was mistaken?

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

I know you probably don't remember, but I talk about this some in the opening post of a thread I started in April of last year entitled, The Pre-Trib Rapture and the Day of the Lord (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/251771-the-pre-trib-rapture-and-the-day-of-the-lord/).

I had only been a member for a couple of months (a real newbie!), and you were the first one that responded to that thread as well---and with positive remarks.  Appreciate your replies, both then and now.

Hi not an echo,

You continue to write truth with much detail. I do remember your former thread as I was so, so pleased that you had laid it all out for people to understand. Glad it encouraged you. (Of course there are those here who hold different views. All the best with discussing with them.)

Again, well done on this thread.

Marilyn.

[Keras]

2 hours ago, not an echo said:

Hello Keras,

So, you do not think any of Joel 1:1-2:11 has been literally fulfilled yet?  What causes you to take this position?

Because almost all of the Bible prophesies remain to be literally fulfilled.  Allegories excepted. 

We have not yet commenced all the end times events, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus. 

Pleas look at me free website; logostelos.info   for the means the Lord will use to use to do that. 

[WilliamL]

On 9/19/2021 at 12:13 AM, not an echo said:

Hello William,

You say, "Note that Peter did NOT accurately quote Joel 2..."  Do you mean by this that you think Peter was mistaken?

Haven't a clue what was going on in Peter's mind. Da Puppers post in response to mine is a good an answer as I think one could posit.

[not an echo]

On 9/15/2021 at 4:36 PM, The Light said:

On 9/14/2021 at 1:31 PM, not an echo said:

 

That the era of the NT Church began of the Day of Pentecost is readily apparent.  When will this era end?  On the day of the rapture of the Church, just before the Day of the LORD begins.  With these things in mind, notice the last part of Joel's prophecy (that Peter quotes) and something else that will occur just before the Day of the LORD begins.  Again, from Acts 2:

20  The SUN shall be turned into DARKNESS, and the MOON into BLOOD,

before that great and notable Day of the Lord come:

This exact phenomenon concerning the sun and the moon is spoken of in The Revelation.  Before we look at the specific place, imagine that The Revelation is a treasure trove of mysteries (which it is!), each with its own padlock.  If the above words of Joel's prophecy represented notches on a key, the key with these notches would fit the lock of the mystery of---you guessed it---the 6th Seal.  Consider the similarity between the above verse of Joel's prophecy (Acts 2:20) and the opening and closing verses of the account of the 6th Seal (Rev. 6:12 and 17):

VERSE 12

And I beheld when He had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake;

and the SUN became BLACK as sackcloth of hair, and the MOON became as BLOOD;

VERSE 17

For the great day of His wrath is come;  and who shall be able to stand?

As can be seen, the first half of Acts 2:20 fits verse 12, and the last half fits verse 17.  This is the only place in The Revelation where this key from Joel's prophecy will fit.  I can almost hear the click.  Scripture consistently supports that the era of the NT Church will close on this day that the "sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood."  Of course, since the close of the era of the NT Church is brought about by the rapture, this happens the same day, as well.  Moreover, this all takes place just before the Day of the LORD begins---TO THE VERY DAY.  Summed up, Joel's prophecy marks both the opening and closing days of the era of the NT Church (like bookends), giving us a most important key to unlocking the mystery of the 6th Seal and the timing of the rapture.  All of this reminds me of the way puzzle pieces that are meant to fit together also interlock with other pieces.

The Church is already in heaven at least 7 years before Joel 2 happens.

We see the elders in heaven casting their crowns to the throne.

Rev 4

10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

We also see the Church in heaven before the seals are opened.

Rev 5

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The seals are the 70th week of Daniel. They have nothing to do with the Church. There is a reason that the Church is not mentioned again after the seals are opened until Rev 19. 

It is the 12 tribes across the earth that are raptured at the 6th seal as we can prove in Rev 15 among other places.

Rev 15

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

It is the Jews that sing the song of Moses not the Church.

But you probably don't understand that Rev 14 occurs at the 6th seal as we can prove in Rev 14

Rev 14

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

The wrath of God that occurs at the 6th seal is the same exact wrath of God that occurs in Rev 14.

Hello Zero Turn,

Decades ago I began to have my doubts that it is the Church that John sees in Heaven in Revelation 4-5.  Because I grew up under the tutelage of the common pre-trib view, I had a lot of exposure to this take on things.  But, as I began to study things out for myself and to look at other possibilities, I came to another conclusion.  Something much more reasonable, IMHO, is that John was seeing all of those in Heaven that had already went to Heaven before his invite to "come up" (Rev. 4:1).  I'm talking about all of God's children from Adam through whoever had just entered the Portals of Glory before John got his invite.  We can certainly rightly expect that these would have been there.  For me, the best explanation for the 24 elders is that they are the fathers of the twelve tribes of Israel plus the twelve apostles of the Lamb.  In other words, the Heads of Jehovah's Nation under the Old Covenant and the Heads of Jesus' Church under the New Covenant.  Whatever is ultimately found to be so, it is quite apparent that these 24 hold a very significant place in Heaven, as John's account of what he saw concerning the New Jerusalem attests.  Consider from Revelation 21:

 10  And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from God.

 11  Having the glory of God:  and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

 12  And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are THE NAMES OF THE TWELVE TRIBES OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL:

 13  On the east three gates;  on the north three gates;  on the south three gates;  and on the west three gates.

 14  And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them THE NAMES OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES OF THE LAMB.

A relevant question concerns John, as he was one of the twelve apostles.  What about his seat (Rev. 4:4)?  For me, it is much easier to think in terms of Paul or even "Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus" (Acts 1:23) temporarily filling John's seat at that time than to think that the 24 elders represent the Church.  I would think that the Father would have been quite pleased for John's seat to be thus temporarily filled.  Looking further, consider what I have emphasized in the following three verses from Revelation 5:

  8   And when He had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of SAINTS.

  9   And THEY sung a new song, saying, Thou are worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof:  for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed US to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

 10  And hast made US unto OUR God kings and priests:  and WE shall reign on the earth.

I can easily see the "they" and "us" and "our" and "we" being in reference to the "saints" of verse 8, who, since the beginning of time up until that time had offered the prayers which made for what was filling the golden vials.  And, there is another possibility that I see, but that I will keep for later.

Moreover, if those who make up the NT Church are raptured with the opening of the 6th Seal, as I believe, we could rightly expect that John would see these in Heaven also.  Well, he does.  They are the "great multitude, which no man could number" seen in Revelation 7:9-17.  They too, which will include you and I, Zero Turn, are also "of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" (vs. 9), like the multitude John saw prior (Rev. 5:9).  Whether pre-Cross or post-Cross, God's children are made up of "all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" in accord with God's covenant promise to Abraham (Gen. 12:1-3 and 22:15-18).

Concerning your last sentence, I have come to understand the time of the last days' Day of the Lord judgment as a period of time that will encompass everything that happens from the day that the 6th Seal is opened through the Last Judgment (Rev. 20:11-15).  Because the 7th Seal can scripturally be opened later, the same day that the 6th Seal is opened, this makes for a very helpful and interesting understanding.  I hope you will consider the thrust of my posts in my thread, A Title Suggestion for the Seven Sealed Book.  In that thread I show how that this book could appropriately be entitled, THE DAY OF THE LORD.  Here is a link to that thread (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/249265-a-title-suggestion-for-the-seven-sealed-book/).  With this understanding (and the support of other related scriptures), it begins to become apparent that the seals of the Seven Sealed Book pertain to the era of the NT Church---every single seal.  And, what is within the covers of the book pertains to period of the Day of the Lord---every single page.

Edited June 5, 2023 by not an echo

[Dennis1209]

On 9/14/2021 at 11:23 PM, Keras said:

The world today is very close to the way it was in the days of Noah and we know what happened then.

Evening there Keras,

Why do you suppose the Lord Jesus had to go that far back in history to cite His example? There were many, many times of prosperity Jesus could have used in more recent times.

Luke 17:27 (KJV) They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

What Jesus says above, what is the difference between "they married wives" and "they were given in marriage?"  Or did Jesus just repeat it twice?

 

[not an echo]

On 9/19/2021 at 1:49 AM, Marilyn C said:

On 9/19/2021 at 12:55 AM, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

I know you probably don't remember, but I talk about this some in the opening post of a thread I started in April of last year entitled, The Pre-Trib Rapture and the Day of the Lord (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/251771-the-pre-trib-rapture-and-the-day-of-the-lord/).

I had only been a member for a couple of months (a real newbie!), and you were the first one that responded to that thread as well---and with positive remarks.  Appreciate your replies, both then and now.

Hi not an echo,

You continue to write truth with much detail. I do remember your former thread as I was so, so pleased that you had laid it all out for people to understand. Glad it encouraged you. (Of course there are those here who hold different views. All the best with discussing with them.)

Again, well done on this thread.

Thanks Ms. Marilyn