Joel's Prophecies and the Day of the LORD

[Keras]

On 11/23/2021 at 3:53 PM, not an echo said:

Can you show by Scripture where one of my placements is in error?  Puzzles certainly have some pieces that are difficult to find the correct fit with.

     

Piecing the puzzle together – the first step is to have all the events yet to happen listed. Then, line them up correctly and logically.

1/ Lets work back from the main event, the one that we all agree on – the Return of Jesus in His glory to reign for 1000 years. At that time, Jesus destroys the armies of the Anti Christ, imprisons Satan and then gathers His elect to Him. Matt. 24:31

2/ Before the Return, the AC [Satan] is allowed power over ‘the Holy ones of the Most High’, Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7, for 3½ years. This is also the period of the Great Tribulation. Matthew 24:21, Revelation 13:5

3/ The AC comes to Jerusalem and takes control of the new nation of Beulah. Zechariah 14:1-2, Daniel 7:25. The Holy people are tested by this difficult time. Daniel 11:32-34, Revelation 13:10, Matthew 24:22.

4/ Zechariah 14:1-2 also describes this time and says that half of the population will be taken to a place of safety. Who are the ‘Holy ones’ and who is ‘taken to a place of safety’?  Revelation 12:6 & 14. The ‘Woman’, who gave birth to the Ruler [Jesus] is looked after in safety for 1260 days. The Holy ones, are those Christians kept faithful, the others must face further testing and refinement. Revelation 12:17 Therefore, those in the holy Land at the time of the AC, are all the Lord’s people. [Not the State of Israel who are 48% atheists and 20% Muslim, etc, as at present.]

5/ Just before Zechariah 14, is Zechariah 13:7-9...throughout the Land 2/3 will die, the remaining 1/3 will be refined by fire and the remnant will acknowledge God and Jesus. This is the fire judgement of the Middle East, as prophesied: Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 2:4-5, Ezekiel 5:1-3, Isaiah 33:14, Deuteronomy 32:41-43.

But, there are some pieces missing between 4 & 5, because there is only a remnant left in the Land after the fulfilment of Psalm 83, Ezekiel 20:45-48, Isaiah 33:14, etc. The Land of Greater Israel must be repopulated, for there to be the Lord’s righteous people living there before the Return.  So, the line of dots as I see it is;

A/ This next Mid East event, which clears the entire region, excepting for a small number of Jews in Jerusalem. Jer. 12:14, Eze. 21:1-7, Eze. 14:21-23, Zech. 12:11-14.

B/ The Land is regenerated. Isaiah 32:15-20, Isaiah 43:19-21, Ezekiel 36:8-12.

C/ The descendants of Abraham [now; the Christian peoples from every tribe, nation and language] are gathered- Isaiah 11:11-12, Jeremiah 16:14-16, Micah 2:12, judged- Eze. 34:20, Eze. 20:34-36, and settled in Israel. Deut 15:18-21, Eze. 39:25-29, Micah 7:11-12. Plus  many other prophecies.

D/They select leaders. Jeremiah 3:15, Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11

E/ They live in peace and prosperity for several years. Isaiah 51:3, Psalms 107:35-38.

F/ They rebuild the Temple. Zechariah 8:9-15, Zechariah 6:15, Ezekiel 43:12.

G/ A huge army from the North advances to attack. Ezekiel 38:8-12

H/ That army [Gog from Magog] is totally destroyed. Ezekiel 38:21-23, Joel 2:20.

I/ God reveals His glory and His people acknowledge their Redeemer. Ezekiel 39:21-24.

J/ ‘Many‘ of the people agree to a peace treaty with the Leader of the One world government. Daniel 9:27a. Daniel 11:32 By plausible promises, he will win over those who are ready to violate their Covenant [with God]....some will remain faithful.......

K/ This 7 year treaty is broken at the mid point, commencing the Tribulation. Dan 9:27b

L/ Exactly 1260 days later, Jesus Returns and commences His reign. Daniel 12:7.

There are more details and the timing is not clear, but this seems to be the basic end times prophetic sequence. 

Ref: logostelos.info                    

[not an echo]

On 11/25/2021 at 1:08 PM, Keras said:

On 11/22/2021 at 8:53 PM, not an echo said:

Can you show by Scripture where one of my placements is in error?  Puzzles certainly have some pieces that are difficult to find the correct fit with.

     

Piecing the puzzle together – the first step is to have all the events yet to happen listed. Then, line them up correctly and logically.

1/ Lets work back from the main event, the one that we all agree on – the Return of Jesus in His glory to reign for 1000 years. At that time, Jesus destroys the armies of the Anti Christ, imprisons Satan and then gathers His elect to Him. Matt. 24:31

2/ Before the Return, the AC [Satan] is allowed power over ‘the Holy ones of the Most High’, Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7, for 3½ years. This is also the period of the Great Tribulation. Matthew 24:21, Revelation 13:5

3/ The AC comes to Jerusalem and takes control of the new nation of Beulah. Zechariah 14:1-2, Daniel 7:25. The Holy people are tested by this difficult time. Daniel 11:32-34, Revelation 13:10, Matthew 24:22.

4/ Zechariah 14:1-2 also describes this time and says that half of the population will be taken to a place of safety. Who are the ‘Holy ones’ and who is ‘taken to a place of safety’?  Revelation 12:6 & 14. The ‘Woman’, who gave birth to the Ruler [Jesus] is looked after in safety for 1260 days. The Holy ones, are those Christians kept faithful, the others must face further testing and refinement. Revelation 12:17 Therefore, those in the holy Land at the time of the AC, are all the Lord’s people. [Not the State of Israel who are 48% atheists and 20% Muslim, etc, as at present.]

5/ Just before Zechariah 14, is Zechariah 13:7-9...throughout the Land 2/3 will die, the remaining 1/3 will be refined by fire and the remnant will acknowledge God and Jesus. This is the fire judgement of the Middle East, as prophesied: Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 2:4-5, Ezekiel 5:1-3, Isaiah 33:14, Deuteronomy 32:41-43.

But, there are some pieces missing between 4 & 5, because there is only a remnant left in the Land after the fulfilment of Psalm 83, Ezekiel 20:45-48, Isaiah 33:14, etc. The Land of Greater Israel must be repopulated, for there to be the Lord’s righteous people living there before the Return.  So, the line of dots as I see it is;

A/ This next Mid East event, which clears the entire region, excepting for a small number of Jews in Jerusalem. Jer. 12:14, Eze. 21:1-7, Eze. 14:21-23, Zech. 12:11-14.

B/ The Land is regenerated. Isaiah 32:15-20, Isaiah 43:19-21, Ezekiel 36:8-12.

C/ The descendants of Abraham [now; the Christian peoples from every tribe, nation and language] are gathered- Isaiah 11:11-12, Jeremiah 16:14-16, Micah 2:12, judged- Eze. 34:20, Eze. 20:34-36, and settled in Israel. Deut 15:18-21, Eze. 39:25-29, Micah 7:11-12. Plus  many other prophecies.

D/They select leaders. Jeremiah 3:15, Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11

E/ They live in peace and prosperity for several years. Isaiah 51:3, Psalms 107:35-38.

F/ They rebuild the Temple. Zechariah 8:9-15, Zechariah 6:15, Ezekiel 43:12.

G/ A huge army from the North advances to attack. Ezekiel 38:8-12

H/ That army [Gog from Magog] is totally destroyed. Ezekiel 38:21-23, Joel 2:20.

I/ God reveals His glory and His people acknowledge their Redeemer. Ezekiel 39:21-24.

J/ ‘Many‘ of the people agree to a peace treaty with the Leader of the One world government. Daniel 9:27a. Daniel 11:32 By plausible promises, he will win over those who are ready to violate their Covenant [with God]....some will remain faithful.......

K/ This 7 year treaty is broken at the mid point, commencing the Tribulation. Dan 9:27b

L/ Exactly 1260 days later, Jesus Returns and commences His reign. Daniel 12:7.

There are more details and the timing is not clear, but this seems to be the basic end times prophetic sequence. 

Hello Keras,

Was you wanting to show by this where one of my prophetic puzzle piece placements is in error?  In reflection on my thread title and your post, I mostly noticed that you did not mention the Day of the LORD.

[Marilyn C]

On 11/25/2021 at 2:31 PM, not an echo said:

As I am understanding you, the beginning of the time period of the Day of the Lord will begin with the invasion of the Russian Federation.  At some time after this, you say "God steps in and deals with the Russian Federation and other nations with it."  What do you see concerning what this will involve, according to Scripture?

Moreover, you have said that you believe the blessing spoken of in Joel 2:21-27 (concerning which we see things very differently) will come to pass in conjunction with the removal of the Russian Federation.  How do you reconcile this with the rise at that time of the Antichrist and the time of great tribulation "such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Matt. 24:21)?

Hi NAE,

Yes that is right regarding the Russian Federation invasion. Now the Russians are building up their army just outside the Ukraine obviously wanting to take it over - Jan/Feb. However God`s word says -

`I will TURN YOU AROUND and put hooks in your jaws, and LEAD YOU OUT. ` (Ez. 38: 4)

As I see it God will `turn around` the Russian army and bring them down to the mountains of Israel in the Golan heights. (Easy access to their mountains from Syria). (Ez. 38: 1 - 16)

With Russia will be the former Soviet nations, (many people with you, v.6) and the 3 nations outside of that are - Persia, (Iran) Ethiopia and Libya. (Ez. 38: 5) So we should see movement next year if that is when this will happen. Something to watch for.

Yes Joel 2: 21 - 27 aligns with Ez. 38: 16 & 23,  39: 7 & 22 etc)

Israel will still have to complete the last part of their 70 x 7 years of chastisement - 7 years. Thus Israel goes through the trib, but the Lord brings 1/3 through the fire. (Zech. 13: 1 - 9) 

[Keras]

6 hours ago, not an echo said:

Hello Keras,

Was you wanting to show by this where one of my prophetic puzzle piece placements is in error?  In reflection on my thread title and your post, I mostly noticed that you did not mention the Day of the LORD.

My last post shows that the Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath will be the next prophesied event. The Sixth Seal world changer, that will commence all the end times prophesied things, leading up to the Return of Jesus. 

The is quite clear from Ezekiel 38 that the invasion by a northern army, led by a man called Gog, is not the next event. It will happen when all of the faithful peoples of God are settled into all of the holy Land. 

It will be a nuke attack by Iran and their proxies which will trigger the Day the Lord tramples down His enemies. 

[not an echo]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

On 11/24/2021 at 10:01 PM, not an echo said:

As I am understanding you, the beginning of the time period of the Day of the Lord will begin with the invasion of the Russian Federation.  At some time after this, you say "God steps in and deals with the Russian Federation and other nations with it."  What do you see concerning what this will involve, according to Scripture?

Moreover, you have said that you believe the blessing spoken of in Joel 2:21-27 (concerning which we see things very differently) will come to pass in conjunction with the removal of the Russian Federation.  How do you reconcile this with the rise at that time of the Antichrist and the time of great tribulation "such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Matt. 24:21)?

Hi NAE,

Yes that is right regarding the Russian Federation invasion. Now the Russians are building up their army just outside the Ukraine obviously wanting to take it over - Jan/Feb. However God`s word says -

`I will TURN YOU AROUND and put hooks in your jaws, and LEAD YOU OUT. ` (Ez. 38: 4)

As I see it God will `turn around` the Russian army and bring them down to the mountains of Israel in the Golan heights. (Easy access to their mountains from Syria). (Ez. 38: 1 - 16)

With Russia will be the former Soviet nations, (many people with you, v.6) and the 3 nations outside of that are - Persia, (Iran) Ethiopia and Libya. (Ez. 38: 5) So we should see movement next year if that is when this will happen. Something to watch for.

Yes Joel 2: 21 - 27 aligns with Ez. 38: 16 & 23,  39: 7 & 22 etc)

Israel will still have to complete the last part of their 70 x 7 years of chastisement - 7 years. Thus Israel goes through the trib, but the Lord brings 1/3 through the fire. (Zech. 13: 1 - 9) 

Hello Marilyn,

Fixing to turn in for the night (should have already) and I noticed your reply.  I immediately had three question marks go off in my head.

#1---As I am understanding you, Ezekiel 38:23 will take place after the Russian Federation is removed.  This verse reads...

²³ Thus will I magnify Myself, and sanctify Myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Yet, after this, according to you, the Antichrist will arise.  According to Revelation 13,

⁸ And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

#2---As I am understanding you, Ezekiel 39:7 will also take place after the Russian Federation is removed.  This verse reads thus...

⁷ So will I make My holy name known in the midst of My people Israel; and I will not let them pollute My holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

Yet, after this, according to you, the Antichrist will arise.  Remember again Revelation 13:8 above.

#3---As I am understanding you, after God removes the Russian Federation, the blessing of Joel 2:21-27 will come upon the Israelites---but in conjunction with this, they "will still have to complete the last part of their 70 x 7 years of chastisement - 7 years."  This, according to Jesus, will be a time of "great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Matt. 24:21).  And, after this, after the promise (you say) of Joel 2:21-27, the LORD will only bring 1/3 through the fire.  Yet, you also list Ezekiel 39:22 as aligning with Joel 2:21-27, which again, happens before the chastisement.  It reads...

²² So the HOUSE OF ISRAEL shall know that I am the LORD their God FROM THAT DAY AND FORWARD.

Something ain't harmonizing to me.  Maybe I've just been up too late...

[Diaste]

 

The below is from 'Is the Trump of God the 7th Trump?" Moved here per your request.

 

3 hours ago, not an echo said:

I know you realize that it was because of my desire to keep the subject of this thread on track that I worked up my thread on Joel's Prophecies and the Day of the LORD.  As can be seen by that thread, it would not have been possible for me to answer your every objection in relation to Joel's prophecy and still stay on track here.

Today I scanned this thread (which took some time! ) to discover afresh what you have used from Joel to dismiss my position and support your own.

On page 4, you had said, "I have already dealt with the trumps. OUR BEST EVIDENCE IS JOEL. And even if you choose not to accept that Joel is referring to the A of D it's very clear all the green grass is gone by fire and all the trees scorched before the Day of the Lord."  Further on this page, you had said, "And just because Joel doesn't mention the affects of the 2nd and 4th through 6th trump it's not a prohibition." (caps and underline mine)

I was quickly seeing that you did not take any of Joel to be yet fulfilled, so I asked you the question on page 6, "Do you not see any connection with Joel's prophecies and a Day of the Lord that was looming even in Joel's day?"  To this you replied, "The Day of the Lord has been looming since the Fall. If you cannot see the parallels between Joel, THREE WHOLE CHAPTERS, and Revelation then I feel doctrine has replaced fact." (caps and underline mine)

Now Diaste, in my journey today, I also discovered many things afresh that you said to me, which would have made others bristle, but I have suffered you all along the way (that kinda came out funny ).  Annnyway, moving way on down the track (or thread) to page 23, I had appealed to the chronological order of The Revelation to further establish that the Trump of God is not the Seventh Trumpet, making this a numbered point, which read in part, "#1---The very apparent chronological order of Scripture in The Revelation.  What is revealed in the first 10 chapters is in the strictest chronological order possible.  It is not even in the realm of possibility for it be arranged in a more chronological fashion..."  To this you replied in part, "JOEL DISPUTES THIS WITH HIS INSIGHT. The 1st trump has sounded near the A of D. The meat and drink offering is cut off and all the green grass is gone. This is around the midpoint of the week and would be at the time of the 5th seal at least and possibly before." (caps and underline mine)

On page 28, you had said, "Or even if you don't hold to that idea ONE STILL MUST APPLY JOEL 1 TO THE END OF THE AGE and JOEL 1 must fit seamlessly into Revelation and the Olivet Discourse. Joel records the nearness of the day of the Lord AND THE ALREADY OCCURRED A OF D and the fact the grass is gone and the trees burned near to that Day, and before that Day.  THIS ONE CHAPTER throws any strictly chronological rendering of Revelation into sheer chaos." (caps and underlining mine)

I have already shown why the first 10 Chapters are not, and cannot be, a strict chronology as evidence by this ""Or even if you don't hold to that idea ONE STILL MUST APPLY JOEL 1 TO THE END OF THE AGE and JOEL 1 must fit seamlessly into Revelation and the Olivet Discourse. Joel records the nearness of the day of the Lord AND THE ALREADY OCCURRED A OF D and the fact the grass is gone and the trees burned near to that Day, and before that Day.  THIS ONE CHAPTER throws any strictly chronological rendering of Revelation into sheer chaos."

It must be dealt with as it's all spoken under the same prophecy. It's not several prophecies pieced together over 1000 years, it's a singular prophecy; "This is the word of the LORD" and Joel says in the 1st chapter verses 15-20 that the DOTL is near, the A of D has occurred and fire has destroyed all the grain and pastures, and there is no water. Even if one doesn't hold to the fact that the bitterness of the water of the 3rd trump is the same as the streams of water dried up; it's hard to deny all the grain and pastures destroyed by fire and the trees scorched, at the time of the A of D.  This means at the very least the 1st trump has sounded by the midpoint, before the 6th seal. Likely before the 5th seal as well. 

3 hours ago, not an echo said:

Finally (for now), on page 30 I had spoke a little to the difference in the Day of the LORD that Joel speaks of at the first and the Day of the LORD that he speaks of later.  I wrote,

"In Joel chapter one, what is written concerning "the nearness of the day of the Lord" is from the perspective of Joel's day.  That was well over 2500 years ago.  That 'Day of the Lord' (Joel 1:15) judgment was not the same as the 'Day of the Lord' (Joel 2:31) judgment that was to 'come to pass afterward' (Joel 2:28), which prophecy Peter referenced on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:16-21)."

Yeah. It's a bit of an odd take. 

3 hours ago, not an echo said:

To this you replied,

"Well of course not. That would throw a wrench in the works, would it not? Can't have that. But you are of course incorrect in this.

Joel goes on and firmly cements his inspired writings, not simply a perspective as all prophecy is God breathed, with the end of the age and the day of the Lord at the 2nd advent:

Before them the earth quakes; the heavens tremble. The sun and moon grow dark, and the stars lose their brightness. 11The LORD raises His voice in the presence of His army. Indeed, His camp is very large, for mighty are those who obey His command. For the Day of the LORD is great and very dreadful. Who can endure it? - Joel 2

 I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columnsg of smoke. 31The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and awesomeh Day of the LORD. - Joel 2

Exactly like Matt 24:29 and Rev 6:12-13.

If you don't see this it's just denial. Up to you."

And I stand by this. It's denial cause it doesn't fit what you believe about the end of the age. 

3 hours ago, not an echo said:

Now Diaste, I believe you know by now that I am okay when you come hard.  Hey, on my part, if what I am believing and putting forth is falsehood, somebody needs to come hard.  There's already enough falsehood out there.  I know that you think there is something that I need to see that I'm not seeing, but, I think there is something you need to see that you are not seeing.  Take the last example of what you said to me.  You show Joel 2:10-11 and Joel 2:30-31.  You have these as the same.  However, I believe the former has been fulfilled and the latter has not.  Now, I agree with you in part.  I agree with you concerning your latter reference and it being "Exactly like Matt 24:29 and Rev 6:12-13."  Why in the world would I not believe this about the first reference?  Look at my thread on it.  I go into much more detail there, but for an example here, consider the quaking and celestial darkness Joel speaks of in 2:10.  I speak to this in a numbered point that I have in my Joel thread, shown following:

I think the above is unusual. It's not just Joel 2 but Joel 1 as well. Not sure if I can see them as prophecy unrelated and separated by time, unless Joel gives us a clear indication of such. It looks to me like Joel has received of the Spirit the order of things in Joel 1 and detailed insight in Joel 2. We have repeated themes, ideas, language, people, events and conditions in both. In order to be fulfilled the prophecies must come to pass as spoken. Is there a shred of historical writings in support of all the words of the spoken prophecy coming to pass? 

3 hours ago, not an echo said:

====================

NUMBER 13---(Joel 2:10)  The verse reads,

¹⁰ The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

Of the earth quaking before the LORD's army, consider (just for an example) from I Samuel 14:

¹⁵ And there was trembling in the host, in the field, and among all the people: the garrison, and the spoilers, they also trembled, and the earth quaked: so it was a very great trembling.

If the case was such when the Philistines fled before Jonathan and his armourbearer, the "quake" of Joel's prophecy is a non-obstacle, whatever the case or cause.  God can effect such anyway He would like, and has.  The same with the rest. 

The earth quaked, I agree. But did the heavens tremble and go dark at the same time? It's not recorded that happened here. No evidence to say the Joel prophecies are related to 1 Sam 14:15

3 hours ago, not an echo said:

 

Consider from Amos 5, which context supports an 8th century fulfillment...

¹⁸ Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

¹⁹ As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.

²⁰ Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

Also, this from Amos 8, which likewise supports an 8th century fulfillment...

⁹ And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day: 

Okay. So is there any historic writing, biblical or extra biblical, that proves these events occurred in the 8th century? I assume you mean BC and not AD. I'm going to need to see a record of some historian that said the sun went down at noon and there was no brightness on that day. And that has to be along with an exile beyond Damascus. Like together. In the sight of anyone who kept a record. I know of none.

3 hours ago, not an echo said:

As far as a 6th century context, note from Ezekiel 32:

⁷ And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.

While this is spoken as happening over the land of Egypt, the DOTL in that day came upon them as well, as it did the other countries surrounding Israel.

I admit I don't believe I have read Ezekiel 32. Maybe I did, but it's been quite some time as I don't really remember it. It will take some time to digest but one thing stood out to me;

"

I will put your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. 6I will drench the land with the flow of your blood, all the way to the mountains-the ravines will be filled.  Eze 32

 

"And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and the blood that flowed from it rose as high as the bridles of the horses for a distance of 1,600 stadia." Rev 14

From first impressions it may be that Egypt in Eze 32 is a reference to the world and not inside the borders of the nation of Egypt. And from what history teaches Babylon in 586 BC did come against Egypt but in fulfillment of other prophecies like in earlier chapters of Ezekiel and possibly Jeremiah. However, and as I have said many times, the prophecy must be fulfilled in it's entirety, every detail, or it's either unfulfilled or not a prophecy at all. 

If there is historical evidence from 586 BC that the following occurred when Babylon came against Egypt....

I will abandon you on the land

and hurl you into the open field.

I will cause all the birds of the air

to settle upon you,

and all the beasts of the earth

to eat their fill of you.

5I will put your flesh on the mountains

and fill the valleys with your remains. a

6I will drench the land

with the flow of your blood,

all the way to the mountains—

the ravines will be filled.

7When I extinguish you,

I will cover the heavens

and darken their stars.

I will cover the sun with a cloud,

and the moon will not give its light.

8All the shining lights in the heavens

I will darken over you,

and I will bring darkness

upon your land,’

...I would like to see it.

 

3 hours ago, not an echo said:

====================

Moreover, there are some differences that are apparent with the references that you point out.  For one, there is a little bit of difference in the local tremble of the earth from the advance of a great army ("The earth shall quake before them" Joel 2:10/meaning the army) and the movement of tectonic plates (as I believe the quake of Rev. 6:12 will be).  And, there is a little bit of difference between the moon being "dark" (Joel 2:10) and it being turned "into blood" (Joel 2:31/Rev. 6:12), which I take as appearing blood red.

Prophecies cannot be eviscerated and served in pieces. There will be some differences of course as it's people recording what the Spirit has revealed to them. It's not robots or AI for Pete's sake. Even with those differences the entire prophecy must be fulfilled as spoken.  Are we to break up Joel 1 into many parts and scatter it across time and space?  When it's written; "

Grain and drink offerings have been cut off

from the house of the LORD;

the priests are in mourning,

those who minister before the LORD.

10The field is ruined;

the land mourns.

For the grain is destroyed,

the new wine is dried up, and the oil fails.

 Are these two events separated by time and space? No. When the grain and drink is cut off the fields are ruined and the grain is destroyed.  So when we look at the two prophecies of Joel and Rev as referenced by me, we must take into account the entire prophecy. Both are about the Day of the Lord and the similarities abound. 

Did you know that when a crime is committed the first people the police look to are people that have been convicted of similar crimes? They don't look at people who have committed dissimilar crimes, or none at all. They don't look to arsonists to catch burglars. It's the similarities that supply leads to the solution. It's how they know they have a one time, copy-cat, or serial criminal on their hands. 

Here we have serial prophecy based on the entire body of evidence, with the overarching context of the day of the Lord and the unique characteristics of that day, serialized by several prophets. 

I for one will not take select verses and pin them to some point in time construed to be fulfilled apart from the body of the text, the context, and the entire prophecy.

22When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD and the message does not come to pass or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken.

So then taking a select portion of the entire prophecy and claiming fulfillment cannot be justified as we would never be certain the entire prophecy came to pass as spoken. 

3 hours ago, not an echo said:

 

Now, if you can accept that I may have legit scriptural reasons for believing what I believe, I hope we can move our discussion concerning Joel's prophecies and the Day of the LORD over to my thread by that name (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/270772-joels-prophecies-and-the-day-of-the-lord/).  I submit that what I have put forth both here and there is solid.  But, mixing the two---as much as this has happened---has only kept things blurred.  Kinda like my eyes are getting now, from having looked at this computer screen for so long today.  Again, before leaving off for the night, I'm okay with you (or anyone else) coming hard at me.  I only ask that you come hard with Scripture, rightly divided.  Of course, coming nicely when you have something solid is a plus.

Sure you have reasons. I agree with that. 

 

 

 

[Marilyn C]

14 hours ago, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

Fixing to turn in for the night (should have already) and I noticed your reply.  I immediately had three question marks go off in my head.

#1---As I am understanding you, Ezekiel 38:23 will take place after the Russian Federation is removed.  This verse reads...

²³ Thus will I magnify Myself, and sanctify Myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Yet, after this, according to you, the Antichrist will arise.  According to Revelation 13,

⁸ And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

#2---As I am understanding you, Ezekiel 39:7 will also take place after the Russian Federation is removed.  This verse reads thus...

⁷ So will I make My holy name known in the midst of My people Israel; and I will not let them pollute My holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

Yet, after this, according to you, the Antichrist will arise.  Remember again Revelation 13:8 above.

#3---As I am understanding you, after God removes the Russian Federation, the blessing of Joel 2:21-27 will come upon the Israelites---but in conjunction with this, they "will still have to complete the last part of their 70 x 7 years of chastisement - 7 years."  This, according to Jesus, will be a time of "great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Matt. 24:21).  And, after this, after the promise (you say) of Joel 2:21-27, the LORD will only bring 1/3 through the fire.  Yet, you also list Ezekiel 39:22 as aligning with Joel 2:21-27, which again, happens before the chastisement.  It reads...

²² So the HOUSE OF ISRAEL shall know that I am the LORD their God FROM THAT DAY AND FORWARD.

Something ain't harmonizing to me.  Maybe I've just been up too late...

Hi nae,

I quite understand.

I think the details will help us in our discussion. I have done a diagram and also written about it.

You see the 2 wars - the Russian war at the beginning and Armageddon at the end.

Israel. Before the war some Israeli`s are secular and some Orthodox.  After the war however the nation of Israel turns to God. They cleanse the land of the bodies which takes 7 months. (Ez. 39: 12) and then start their sacrifices. (Dan. 8: 13) In the middle of the trib, the A/C does away with the sacrifices, (Dan. 9: 27) and sets up the A/D.

After Armageddon a third of Israeli`s are left and the Lord opens their eyes to receive who He is. (Zech. 12: 10)

GENTILES.

Repentant - After the war many (not all) of the nations know it was God who delivered Israel. (Ez. 38: 23) Some people in these nations turn to God, (great multitude) some look after the Jews, (Matt. 25: 31 ff, sheep nations)and some are martyred. (Rev. 20: 4)

Unrepentant - Even amid the terrible calamities on the earth from God, these people do not repent. (Rev. 9: 20 & 21) They take the mark and are judged. (Rev. 19: 20)

[Uriah]

Hello folks, 

I just wanted to share a timeline that I FINALLY made. I have been meaning to do it for quite a while. I have seen a decent number of timelines around this site and figured, why not. At least people can perhaps see more clearly how I view things. 

 

[not an echo]

On 11/27/2021 at 2:11 AM, Keras said:

On 11/26/2021 at 7:36 PM, not an echo said:

Hello Keras,

Was you wanting to show by this where one of my prophetic puzzle piece placements is in error?  In reflection on my thread title and your post, I mostly noticed that you did not mention the Day of the LORD.

My last post shows that the Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath will be the next prophesied event. The Sixth Seal world changer, that will commence all the end times prophesied things, leading up to the Return of Jesus. 

The is quite clear from Ezekiel 38 that the invasion by a northern army, led by a man called Gog, is not the next event. It will happen when all of the faithful peoples of God are settled into all of the holy Land. 

It will be a nuke attack by Iran and their proxies which will trigger the Day the Lord tramples down His enemies. 

Hello Keras,

According to what I am seeing in Scripture, I too believe that the next prophesied event will be the opening of the 6th Seal.  Concisely, I believe that the Lamb's opening of this seal will be accompanied by the appearance of "the sign of the Son of man in heaven" (Matt. 24:30) and the gathering of the Church by the angels (Matt. 24:31).  Of course, there will be all of the other accompanying phenomena.  I see the day this happens as also marking the beginning of the period of the Day of the Lord, as I believe the 7th Seal will be opened this same day as well.  Because of the last seal removal on the same day, I submit that a fitting title for the Seven Sealed Book would be THE DAY OF THE LORD, as everything that happens from this day forward through the Last Judgment (Rev. 20:11-15) is part of the DOTL.  Consider my thread, A Title Suggestion for the Seven Sealed Book (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/249265-a-title-suggestion-for-the-seven-sealed-book/).  All of this is part of A Totally Different Pre-Daniel's 70th Week Rapture Interpretation that I have.  Here is a link to my master thread by this same name (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/253935-a-totally-different-pre-daniels-70th-week-rapture-interpretation/).

On the surface, it looks like we may be seeing Ezekiel 38 similarly.  Again, concisely, I see Ezekiel 38 as pertaining to the end of Christ's Millennial Reign and holding prophetic puzzle pieces that connect hard with what John sees in Revelation 20:7-10.  I see Ezekiel 39 as pertaining to Christ's Second Coming and the Battle of Armageddon and holding prophetic puzzle pieces that connect hard with what John sees in Revelation 19:11-21.

It would be easy for discussions about some of the above to derail this thread.  As long as the primary focus remains on Joel's prophecies and the Day of the LORD, things should be alright, as there are several interconnections.

Let me reinforce that I see Joel 1:1-2:27 as pertaining exclusively to the DOTL that took place in the land of Israel and its adjoining countries in the 8th and 6th centuries B.C.  What is spoken of in Joel 2:12-27 was a call for the Israelites to repent in that day, coupled with a "Then" condition (vs. 18) that they did not meet.  Had they repented, it would have been a huge history changer.  To me, understanding this is essential to correctly understanding Joel's prophecies.  Nothing concerning the last days' Day of the LORD is prophesied of until Joel 2:28, which opens, "AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS AFTERWARD..."  At this point, Joel's prophecy turns to the last days' DOTL and continues concerning this throughout the rest of his prophecy.

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, not an echo said:

"AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS AFTERWARD..." 

After what? A quick glance at Joel 2 doesn't establish what's before. Is it all before?