Catholics and Salvation

[Pax]

Pax...you said:

There are two reasons why I usually don't qoute sources.

[Fiosh]

Fiosh...I sound like a three year old...your words are bolded:

Well it is good to see that at least you are consistent, my friend.

I ask I reasonable question in an attempt to have a civilized discussion....you go off on some tirade.Calm now?

[Tari]

Has anyone here ever studied Michelangelo's painting at the Sistine Chapel? Here is a website showing them all:

www.wga.hu/tours/sistina/index.html

[Trust & Obey]

I agree you are very intelligent, but are all Christians as smart as you?  And if the Bible is so easy to understand and clear, than why all the confusion.  OSAS, Rapture, thousands of different denominations, different Bibles being made, with different interpretations.  Do you see how people can become misguided over time and confused.  Christ told us that he would leave us with a Church on Earth headed by a man, with guideance from the holy spirit.  He also said that the gates of hell would not prevail against her.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pax, thanks for the compliment. I don't think it takes an enormous amount of intelligence to understand the Bible. But, what it does take is the Holy Spirit guiding that person as they read. Perhaps they won't read the Bible through one time and have a complete systematic theology thought out, but they will have the nuts and bolts of what it is to be a Christian.

God wants to speak to each of us through His word. Christians should not neglect a daily time in the Word of God.

It has been said before, "7 days without reading the Bible makes one weak."

Regarding the "church headed by a man" thing... I would disagree on that interpretation of the passage, as I'm sure you guessed.

God would not entrust the well-being of His Church to a mortal man.

Christ is the head of the Church, not Peter.

Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him (Christ) to be the head over all things to the church,

Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Now, that passage clearly says that Christ is the head of the Church. It even goes on to say that the Church is His body. So, He's the head and we're the body.

Once more from a different passage for emphasis:

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

[halifaxchristian]

I, personally, only ever baptized one baby, about 25 years ago.

Ma'am, you child is fine even without the baptism. I am sure you have heard it said.

2 Samuel 12:22-23 KJV

(22) And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

(23) But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I know. I believe that my Father is full of gentleness and compassion.

Thanks, Aim.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fiosh...the difference is...your Church does not agree with you. That is why I am afraid that you love your Church so much that you won't admit that you are not in total agreement with all that she teaches.

[Fiosh]

I, personally, only ever baptized one baby, about 25 years ago.

Ma'am, you child is fine even without the baptism. I am sure you have heard it said.

2 Samuel 12:22-23 KJV

(22) And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

(23) But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I know. I believe that my Father is full of gentleness and compassion.

Thanks, Aim.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fiosh...the difference is...your Church does not agree with you. That is why I am afraid that you love your Church so much that you won't admit that you are not in total agreement with all that she teaches.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, HC, you are wrong.

I "stole" that phrase from my Pastor. During the prayers of repentance at Mass, he often close with "...for we know that You are full of gentleness and compassion".

You really should get a Catechism and study up if you plan to continue to tell me what I am taught by the RCC.

Welcome back! Unfortunately, today I have lots of work to do--cleaning, painting, etc.

Only popped in for a sec.

Later,

F

[halifaxchristian]

Fiosh...you said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "true Christian tradition" ?

I mean that...only believers should be baptised...and that is true Christian tradition.

You use the Old Covenant circumcision to uphold your anti-Christian doctrine of baptising babies. What you don't understand is that the Old Covenant was to the Chosen People a fleshly covenant at that time. The circumcision was merely an outward symbol that the child was born into God's Messiah's lineage. Paul, in the epistle to the Romans, makes it clear that circumcision availeth nothing and TRUE CIRCUMCISION is of the heart.

You used a Scripture to defend the baptism of babies also when you said that "whole families" were baptised. But you failed to include that the context said that these "whole families" or houses...BELIEVED in Christ. We know that the Bible makes it very clear that there is an age when someone is too young to make a decision of true saving faith in Jesus.

"...Before the child shall know to refuse evil, and choose the good..."-Isaiah 7:16

"...Your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil..."-Deuteronomy 1:39

"...The children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil..."-Romans 9:11

To say that babies must be baptised to be saved is a sick distortion of God's loving character...and is totally and completely false and un-Biblical and should be renounced.

[halifaxchristian]

I, personally, only ever baptized one baby, about 25 years ago.

Ma'am, you child is fine even without the baptism. I am sure you have heard it said.

2 Samuel 12:22-23 KJV

(22) And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

(23) But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I know. I believe that my Father is full of gentleness and compassion.

Thanks, Aim.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fiosh...the difference is...your Church does not agree with you. That is why I am afraid that you love your Church so much that you won't admit that you are not in total agreement with all that she teaches.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, HC, you are wrong.

I "stole" that phrase from my Pastor. During the prayers of repentance at Mass, he often close with "...for we know that You are full of gentleness and compassion".

You really should get a Catechism and study up if you plan to continue to tell me what I am taught by the RCC.

Welcome back! Unfortunately, today I have lots of work to do--cleaning, painting, etc.

Only popped in for a sec.

Later,

F

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You've said it before here on very recent threads...that baby baptism removes the stain of original sin...and Pax can vouch for that one. If the Roman Catholic Church does not teach that babies can go to hell...then there is absolutely no purpose in that vain tradition and it should stop. Either it has a purpose or it doesn't and you cannot have it both ways. Sorry...it's just common sense I suppose.

Are you REALLY happy that I am back????

[Fiosh]

I, personally, only ever baptized one baby, about 25 years ago.

Ma'am, you child is fine even without the baptism. I am sure you have heard it said.

2 Samuel 12:22-23 KJV

(22) And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

(23) But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I know. I believe that my Father is full of gentleness and compassion.

Thanks, Aim.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fiosh...the difference is...your Church does not agree with you. That is why I am afraid that you love your Church so much that you won't admit that you are not in total agreement with all that she teaches.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, HC, you are wrong.

I "stole" that phrase from my Pastor. During the prayers of repentance at Mass, he often close with "...for we know that You are full of gentleness and compassion".

You really should get a Catechism and study up if you plan to continue to tell me what I am taught by the RCC.

Welcome back! Unfortunately, today I have lots of work to do--cleaning, painting, etc.

Only popped in for a sec.

Later,

F

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You've said it before here on very recent threads...that baby baptism removes the stain of original sin...and Pax can vouch for that one. If the Roman Catholic Church does not teach that babies can go to hell...then there is absolutely no purpose in that vain tradition and it should stop. Either it has a purpose or it doesn't and you cannot have it both ways. Sorry...it's just common sense I suppose.

Are you REALLY happy that I am back????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"My name is Fiosh, and I am a WorthyBoards addict"

I'm supposed to be scrubbing the toilet, but I keep coming back here.

For the life of me I can't figure out why, but for some twisted reason I did miss you.

Halifax, you said:

"But you failed to include that the context said that these "whole families" or "

houses..."

Are you agreeing that if the parents believe the children should be baptized?

**************************************

You are misunderstanding the RC teaching (as usual)

Babies are not baptized because they are "sinners". They are baptized because they inherit the sinful nature of Adam.

Do you deny that we all inherit that sinful nature????????

Baptism imparts to us grace and the Holy Spirit within us, to draw us to God and strengthen us against the evil one.

No one is saying that a baby commits sin. Duh!

Now I REALLY gotta go scrub the toilet. Yuk!

F

[Fiosh]

Fiosh...I sound like a three year old...your words are bolded:

Well it is good to see that at least you are consistent, my friend.

I ask I reasonable question in an attempt to have a civilized discussion....you go off on some tirade.Calm now?