What Can We Learn From The Books Not Included In The Bible??

[debrakay]

I have always been interested in how and who compiled the Holy Bible into the book we have today.  After doing some research I wanted to hear from the biblical scholars here on Worthy to get more insight as to whether or not reading the Books and Writings that were studied in the past is today, worthy of much time. I do understand there are many different bible versions and many of "lost" books are included in all but the Protestant versions.  I have been a non-denominational believer for over 40 years so I am always leaning on the Holy Spirit to teach me.

1) Are there some things the Father would like to reveal from these writings in modern times that were available to the believer in ancient times?

2) Why is it that what was considered inspired scripture for people in ancient times was no longer considered scripture by men at various times in the past and removed from the OT and the NT?

3) Why should or shouldn't Christians read/study these ancient scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal God's inspired word for us today?

In the Jewish times of Jesus there was the Book of the Law (Torah - 5 books), the Book of the Prophets (Former Prophets 4 volumes, Latter Prophets 3 volumes, the Twelve Minor Prophets 1 book), and the third part was the "Writings" (7 poetic books and 2 other volumes).  There were a total of 24 volumes in the Hebrew Old Testament in Jesus' time, then later, during Greek translation, some of the volumes were divided to make a total of 39 separate books.  It seems like there were a lot of "writings" that were studied and sometimes quoted in ancient Jewish synagogues but were not considered God given inspired scripture according to the final councils.

In the 4th century men decided which books would be included in the New Testament. In 367 Athanasius of Alexandria decided to remove the Didache (or Teaching of the Twelve Apostles), the Shepherd of Hermas, the Apocalypse of Peter, the Epistle of Barnabas and the Epistle of Clement from the New Testament writings leaving a total of the 27 NT books we have today.  I found this quote to explain the reasoning of the time:

"Their eventual exclusion was not because they were regarded as heretical, but because they either lacked apostolic authorship or were thought to be too shallow in spiritual content."

I know there is a lot of historical information about who, what, and why. I probably do not know all of the main facts and I do not always agree with many of the decisions of mankind and often wonder what is at the root of the issue.

I guess my main reason for asking for comments and advice is that in the past there were numerous scriptures studied, inspired words of our Father, Creator, God heard by the hearts and souls of thousands of ancients believers which are no longer put into the minds and hearts of modern believers for the Holy Spirit to reveal.

4) Do we need to seek the Lord and His wisdom in these ancient and forgotten words?

Thank you to all who respond!! 

Edited by Omegaman 3.0
Title altered and authors request!

 

[Bawb]

1) Are there some things the Father would like to reveal from these writings in modern times that were available to the believer in ancient times? Yes, Sister, oh Yes! For instance, what is "God's" name? In Psalms 91: 14, it states: 14.  “Because he cleaves to Me in love, Therefore I deliver him; I set him on high, Because he has known My Name. How do you get this protection unless you know His actual name? His name isn't God... For instance the KJV Bible changed the Tetragrammaton  (fancy word for 4 letters) of YHWH or in some writings YHVH to "LORD" If you do a search on YouTube for :Yahweh vs. YHVH: The Name of God - Q&A with Michael Rood & Nehemia Gordon you will see evidence of His real name.

2) Why is it that what was considered inspired scripture for people in ancient times was no longer considered scripture by men at various times in the past and removed from the OT and the NT? In my opinion, it was due to some agenda. It was either to eradicate any "Jewishness" from Yeshua or what ever scripture was changed to suit a pagan agenda. For example the word Easter was inserted into the KJV. Hebrews and Messianic believers would never celebrate anything to do with pagan worship of Astarte. King James re-named Yeshua's brother Yaaqov (Jacob) to his own name of James. Also the RCC's deletion of nearly all truth and the syncretizing of everything YeHoVah and Yeshua taught us.

3) Why should or shouldn't Christians read/study these ancient scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal God's inspired word for us today? I see no reason not to if they line up with the Scriptures. I have gotten a lot of answers and deeper understanding from some of the Books of the Apocrypha (some of which are quoted in the Bible).

4) Do we need to seek the Lord and His wisdom in these ancient and forgotten words? Yes, we do. Some were found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. As far as I'm concerned these would be more reliable than some of the books we can find in book stores today. Publishers have agendas too. Some of them are extremely wicked... I've gotten to the point where I check EVERYTHING that has been told to me and not just take any man's word for anything.

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Bawb
Used wrong name: corrected to Jacob

[Jayne]

4 hours ago, debrakay said:

4) Do we need to seek the Lord and His wisdom in these ancient and forgotten words?

Sister, it's just not rocket science.  For those who know the Bible like the back of their hand,  read and study it, if possible, daily, we know why these writings are not included with genuine scripture.

They either contradict scripture, add nothing to it that has not already been revealed, or are heresies.

Quote

3) Why should or shouldn't Christians read/study these ancient scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal God's inspired word for us today?

God's inspired word that he has given us is that same today as it was 1000 years ago and longer ago.  Their are NO NEW revelations from God today.  None.  I do not understand why people are not content with the scriptures that God did give us.

Quote

2) Why is it that what was considered inspired scripture for people in ancient times was no longer considered scripture by men at various times in the past and removed from the OT and the NT? 

I have no idea what it is you are speaking of here.  The Jewish canon was closed with Malachi.  It wasn't until the first translation from Hebrew to Greek that the first translators ADDED a collections of writings with the Jewish scriptures.  

NOTHING has been removed FROM the Old and New Testament.  The added collection of intertestament writings - not inspired - was removed.

[MrBear]

Many books were removed for various reasons Catholics for their reasons, Martin Luther because they didn’t line up with his theology

The Bible as we know it now 66 books is nothing like other countries that still include books removed from our cannon

although the book of Jude directly quoted from the book of Enoch and the apostles themselves knew of these books, we do have believers that assume if someone tells me it isn’t inspired I can’t read it, I can tell you it’s ok to run red lights but would you still do it? I’m just a man you wouldn’t listen to me but put a pope hat on my head and all of the sudden ‘ it’s law?’

Im ranting, the books like the apocrypha are not bad to read, some are way off of what scripture says and some line up exactly with scripture it’s like a jigsaw puzzle and these books fit right in.

BUT BE WARNED

You need to know your scriptures, before you dive into the ‘ hidden books’ you need to know the word 

for example we know unclean unsanctified  cannot enter the temple of god, there were rituals of purification so in the wisdom of Solomon book Solomon is given a ring that can enslave demons and he enslaved hundreds of demons ( female and male demons) and forces them to build gods temple

We know this couldn’t be true because we know scripture, Baruch the scribe of Jerimiah has his own books too now we know Baruch he is mentioned in the Bible and many think he wrote Jerimiah and Lamentations , in his book he explains why we cannot find the ark of the covenant, and the events described in his book were also mentioned in our bible

The point is that knowledge of the scripture makes a big difference when reading the hidden books

I would say in my mind right off the bat 

Enoch

Jubilees

Baruch

apocalypse ( which means revelation )of Abraham 

Are good starts they line up with scripture, they fill in the blanks

stay away from

wisdom of solomon

book of Adam and eve

book of Thomas 

Do your research and if it doesn’t add up with the cannon 66 

( by the way for new people when you hear someone mention ‘ cannon 66  ‘ they are talking the Bible we have today 66 books)

if the hidden books don’t line up with the cannon, then chalk it up as biblical fiction, don’t be afraid to expand your knowledge of Gods word 

Do some history and you will see these books were removed for some nefarious reasons by man -  by men that had their own agendas

to those that are all about the cannon 66 and no I will not read the other books because it is satanic or whatever you have been told I respect you and your beliefs, but let’s not discourage people that want to follow their own spirit and judge for themselves I would ask.

I like the apocrypha myself, but knowing your scripture will help you understand it better

SHALOM❤️

 

[Jayne]

1 hour ago, MrBear said:

although the book of Jude directly quoted from the book of Enoch 

It's not a direct quote and with all the blatant lies in the "book" of Enoch, how  do you know that both Jude and whomever in the intertestament period who authored or co-authored this bookdidn't both quote an earlier source?

Whoever wrote the book of Enoch claims that:

• The real Enoch walked  with God and was no more.  The"book" of Enoch says the real Enoch went to live with the demons and was their "attorney"  so to speak and took dictation from them and took the document to God and tried to defend them before God and tried on their behalf to get God to forive them.
• It also says that Lamech, Moses' father was afraid of the strange baby Moses and sent his own father, Methusaleh to find Enoch AFTER God took him and asked him for advice about baby Moses as baby Moses was born talking in complete sentences and more absurdities.  That contradicts the Bible as Enoch "was no more".
• The "book"  of Enoch says that the angels built the Ark.

I could go on and on, but I won't.  Read what you choose, but the Bibical  canon [one "n" in the middle] was complete and is  complete.

[missmuffet]

6 hours ago, debrakay said:

I have always been interested in how and who compiled the Holy Bible into the book we have today.  After doing some research I wanted to hear from the biblical scholars here on Worthy to get more insight as to whether or not reading the Books and Writings that were studied in the past is today, worthy of much time. I do understand there are many different bible versions and many of "lost" books are included in all but the Protestant versions.  I have been a non-denominational believer for over 40 years so I am always leaning on the Holy Spirit to teach me.

1) Are there some things the Father would like to reveal from these writings in modern times that were available to the believer in ancient times?

2) Why is it that what was considered inspired scripture for people in ancient times was no longer considered scripture by men at various times in the past and removed from the OT and the NT?

3) Why should or shouldn't Christians read/study these ancient scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal God's inspired word for us today?

In the Jewish times of Jesus there was the Book of the Law (Torah - 5 books), the Book of the Prophets (Former Prophets 4 volumes, Latter Prophets 3 volumes, the Twelve Minor Prophets 1 book), and the third part was the "Writings" (7 poetic books and 2 other volumes).  There were a total of 24 volumes in the Hebrew Old Testament in Jesus' time, then later, during Greek translation, some of the volumes were divided to make a total of 39 separate books.  It seems like there were a lot of "writings" that were studied and sometimes quoted in ancient Jewish synagogues but were not considered God given inspired scripture according to the final councils.

In the 4th century men decided which books would be included in the New Testament. In 367 Athanasius of Alexandria decided to remove the Didache (or Teaching of the Twelve Apostles), the Shepherd of Hermas, the Apocalypse of Peter, the Epistle of Barnabas and the Epistle of Clement from the New Testament writings leaving a total of the 27 NT books we have today.  I found this quote to explain the reasoning of the time:

"Their eventual exclusion was not because they were regarded as heretical, but because they either lacked apostolic authorship or were thought to be too shallow in spiritual content."

I know there is a lot of historical information about who, what, and why. I probably do not know all of the main facts and I do not always agree with many of the decisions of mankind and often wonder what is at the root of the issue.

I guess my main reason for asking for comments and advice is that in the past there were numerous scriptures studied, inspired words of our Father, Creator, God heard by the hearts and souls of thousands of ancients believers which are no longer put into the minds and hearts of modern believers for the Holy Spirit to reveal.

4) Do we need to seek the Lord and His wisdom in these ancient and forgotten words?

Thank you to all who respond!! 

 

 

There are no “lost books” of the Bible, or books that were taken out of the Bible, or books missing from the Bible. Every book that God intended to be in the Bible is in the Bible. There are many legends and rumors of lost books of the Bible, but the books were not, in fact, lost. Rather, they were rejected. There are literally hundreds of religious books that were written in the same time period as the books of the Bible. Some of these books contain true accounts of things that actually occurred (1 Maccabees, for example). Others contain some good spiritual teaching (the Wisdom of Solomon, for example). However, these books are not inspired by God. If we read any of these books, such as the Apocryphal ones mentioned above, we have to treat them as fallible religious/historical books, not as the inspired, inerrant Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
The gospel of Thomas, for example, was a forgery written in the 3rd or 4th century A.D., claiming to have been written by the apostle Thomas. It was not written by Thomas. The early Christians almost universally rejected the gospel of Thomas as heretical. It contains many false and heretical things that Jesus supposedly said and did. None of it (or at best very little of it) is true. For example, the Gospel of Thomas has Jesus saying nonsensical things like “Blessed is the lion that a person will eat, and the lion will become human” (Saying 7), and “Every woman who makes herself male will enter into the kingdom of heaven” (Saying 114).

The gospel of Barnabas was not written by the biblical Barnabas, but by an imposter. The same can be said of the gospel of Philip, the apocalypse of Peter, etc. All of these books, and the many others like them, are pseudepigraphal, essentially meaning “ascribed to a false author.”

There is one God. The Bible has one Creator. It is one book. It has one plan of grace, recorded from initiation, through execution, to consummation. From predestination to glorification, the Bible is the story of God redeeming His chosen people for the praise of His glory. As God’s redemptive purposes and plan unfold in Scripture, the recurring themes constantly emphasized are the character of God, the judgment for sin and disobedience, the blessing for faith and obedience, the Lord and Savior and His sacrifice for sin, and the coming kingdom and glory. It is God’s intention that we know and understand these themes because our lives and eternal destinies depend upon them. It is therefore unthinkable that God would allow some of this vital information to be “lost” in any way. The Bible is complete, in order that we who read and understand it might also be “complete, and equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

https://www.gotquestions.org/lost-books-Bible.html

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by missmuffet

[MrBear]

Sister thank you for your opinions

( that was to sister Jayne not to the person that cut pasted something from got questions. Org - which honestly is a pet peeve of mine, if we are just going to cut paste the first site from google search I could copy paste 10 pages that say the Apocrypha is holy scripture if I look hard enough- no offense to anyone that bases their belief system from google- it’s just a thorn in my own side and misleading, we have to remember there are many that visit this site that are new on thier journey and copy / pasting google sites like gotquestions. Org or yahoo answers.com isn’t giving a true answer to anything it’s very misleading unless you are taking the time to research those answers before you paste them is all I’m saying, not trying to be confrontational I just don’t want people new to the walk to be misled the Bible does quote Enoch, the apostles knew the scripture and this offends people, it’s a hot topic and I won’t play into sword fighting with Bible verses that’s why I repeatedly said KNOW YOUR SCRIPTURE sisters

reading the Apocrypha isn’t going to ruin your salvation and it’s up to the reader to determine the legitimacy of the writings

Now that’s my stance true from my heart and not copy / pasted from a website.. I hope the reader can respect that more)

mom actually going to unfollow this thread I can feel the spiritual warfare so if the OP needs any help getting started you can instamessage me anytime ?

SHALOM❤️

Edited November 19, 2021 by MrBear

[debrakay]

Thank you each for taking the time to give me your advice and opinions on these writings that were not included in some bibles and included in others depending on the denomination.  I have a Catholic bible and will read the books of Tobit, Judith, 1 & 2 Maccabees, Wisdom, Sirach, and Baruch.  If Catholic Christian believers are reading them as inspired scripture I feel I should at least know the content of these books. I guess I should not be calling these "Lost Books" when the fact is they were removed from certain denominational bibles.  The history and facts surrounding many of these writings are unknown mysteries in many instances.  The author is a maybe or a guess.  The time period is a maybe or a guess.  The writing itself is maybe fiction or may be fact or could be both.  

I know the Holy Spirit will lead me accordingly.  I am a 40 year spirit filled believer so I know the power of the Holy Spirit and always lean on His understanding and guidance.  People read many, many different kinds of books which can help or can harm depending on the mentality of the reader and the ability of the writer.  I am a believer who counts on the Holy Spirit to guide my mind and my heart in all areas of Godly interest.  I appreciate the warnings and the words of wisdom from my brothers and sisters in the Lord!

Blessings for the day!!     

[johnthebaptist]

On 11/18/2021 at 10:48 AM, debrakay said:

I have always been interested in how and who compiled the Holy Bible into the book we have today.  After doing some research I wanted to hear from the biblical scholars here on Worthy to get more insight as to whether or not reading the Books and Writings that were studied in the past is today, worthy of much time. I do understand there are many different bible versions and many of "lost" books are included in all but the Protestant versions.  I have been a non-denominational believer for over 40 years so I am always leaning on the Holy Spirit to teach me.

1) Are there some things the Father would like to reveal from these writings in modern times that were available to the believer in ancient times?

2) Why is it that what was considered inspired scripture for people in ancient times was no longer considered scripture by men at various times in the past and removed from the OT and the NT?

3) Why should or shouldn't Christians read/study these ancient scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal God's inspired word for us today?

In the Jewish times of Jesus there was the Book of the Law (Torah - 5 books), the Book of the Prophets (Former Prophets 4 volumes, Latter Prophets 3 volumes, the Twelve Minor Prophets 1 book), and the third part was the "Writings" (7 poetic books and 2 other volumes).  There were a total of 24 volumes in the Hebrew Old Testament in Jesus' time, then later, during Greek translation, some of the volumes were divided to make a total of 39 separate books.  It seems like there were a lot of "writings" that were studied and sometimes quoted in ancient Jewish synagogues but were not considered God given inspired scripture according to the final councils.

In the 4th century men decided which books would be included in the New Testament. In 367 Athanasius of Alexandria decided to remove the Didache (or Teaching of the Twelve Apostles), the Shepherd of Hermas, the Apocalypse of Peter, the Epistle of Barnabas and the Epistle of Clement from the New Testament writings leaving a total of the 27 NT books we have today.  I found this quote to explain the reasoning of the time:

"Their eventual exclusion was not because they were regarded as heretical, but because they either lacked apostolic authorship or were thought to be too shallow in spiritual content."

I know there is a lot of historical information about who, what, and why. I probably do not know all of the main facts and I do not always agree with many of the decisions of mankind and often wonder what is at the root of the issue.

I guess my main reason for asking for comments and advice is that in the past there were numerous scriptures studied, inspired words of our Father, Creator, God heard by the hearts and souls of thousands of ancients believers which are no longer put into the minds and hearts of modern believers for the Holy Spirit to reveal.

4) Do we need to seek the Lord and His wisdom in these ancient and forgotten words?

Thank you to all who respond!! 

 

 

I doubt there's anything important, in the books left out of the Bible, that isn't already in the Bible.

[Buddy D. Mouse]

Additions to Esther and Additions to Daniel.

These are extant in Greek, but not in Hebrew or Aramaic.

Esther is a book that in our versions common to ALL Christians, but contains extra stuff.

Daniel has additions - parts that were only in Greek, whereas the rest of Daniel is in Hebrew or Aramaic.

In the extra parts of Daniel - the Prophet Habakkuk brings food to Daniel while he's in the Lion's Den - but these events happen about a century after Habakkuk lived. Also. in this extra part, Daniel spends a whole week in the Den, whereas in the account more familiar - Daniel just spends one night.

So I kind of dismiss the extra parts of Daniel.