covenant Leviticus 16:16 debuncts the theory that the Old Covenant is different to the New Covenant. They are identical, its the individual who makes the promise to keep it that is different.

[adamjedgar]

On 12/10/2021 at 11:04 PM, JohnR7 said:

I was always taught that the Holy Spirit is removed from the world at the rapture. The Church age or the Holy Spirit dispensation will have come to an end. They also call this the "dispensation of the grace of God" Ephesins 8:2 

I believe that at the rapture absolutely the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth...Satan, his angels and the dead wicked are all that remain...what is the Holy spirit's purpose?

It certainly isn't with those whom probations door has closed. They are eternally lost at that point. Their fates are sealed and they await the carrying out of their sentence...it's done and dusted for them...no further redemption is possible.

Edited December 13, 2021 by adamjedgar

[WilliamL]

On 12/2/2021 at 2:24 PM, WilliamL said:

On 12/2/2021 at 2:13 PM, adamjedgar said:

the apostle John tells us in the book of Revelation that the Saints are those who fulfill 2 requirements:

1. keep the commandments of God and

2. have the faith of Jesus

without BOTH of the above, we are also lost just like king Saul.

These are post-Rapture saints.

During the "time of Jacob's trouble," when God has returned His focus on Earth to Israel.

On 12/2/2021 at 2:27 PM, adamjedgar said:

i think in the context of what i have just written, your statement is impossible to rationalise. The bible is about the restoration of sinful man to God...it is about the plan of salvation. I do not see how you manage to gain post rapture statements of that type from such a narrative?

Do you have definitive references from the bible that logically and consistently present such an argument that do not conflict?

Oh yeah, a bunch of them. Might want to start here:

48. The End Times and the Exodus, Part 1

First of a four-part series that shows how the events of the Israelite Exodus out of Egypt, and their subsequent wilderness sojourn and conquest of Canaan, allegorically portray in great detail the full sequence of events surrounding the Second Coming of Christ. Begins with The 7 Spirits.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1980-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-1/

49. The End Times and the Exodus, Part 2

The 7 Seals.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1992-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-2/

50. The End Times and the Exodus, Part 3

The 7 Trumpets.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2027-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-3/

51. The End Times and the Exodus, Part 4

The 7 Bowls.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2069-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-4/

[WilliamL]

On 12/2/2021 at 2:34 PM, adamjedgar said:

Having said that, how does that even make any difference? Are you suggesting that the definition of "the saints" are different post rapture to pre rapture?

Yes. We are in the Age of Grace by Faith. Specifically, faith in Christ that we cannot see.

John 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

But when Christ appears, to be seen by every eye (Rev. 1:7), then that former faith is no longer applicable. At that point and thereafter, obedience will be the relevant factor. So the difference is between saints not being/having been in the Presence/parousia, as now, and those who have experienced the parousia, as did the disciples, and as will every soul at the time of His appearance.

[Bawb]

On 12/2/2021 at 9:00 PM, teddyv said:

I've heard that the tabernacle was in the middle of the camp because they set up like an Egyptian army camp with the king/Pharaoh's tent in the middle of the camp.

I've heard a lot of things, but I would need to see it in the Bible before I believe it...