Who is the Little Horn of Daniel 8? Can this be linked with the Little Horn in Daniel 7?

[truth7t7]

12 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Thank you. 

Who is the Stone in Daniel and when did He or will He strike the feet?

Thanks for the response Charlie

Who do you believe is the stone in Daniel 2:34, and when has it struck the feet?

What association does this have to the future (Little Horn) in Daniel chapters 7-8?

Jesus Is The Lord

Edited December 19, 2021 by truth7t7

[Reinitin]

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Reinitin,

And then there is Lysimachus in Thrace....and Polyperchon in Epirus.... and....???

So many variables.

It all boils down to WHO was left. What started out with 24 generals all vying for a piece of the pie, after many wars and many decades, there were really only 3 generals that remained, and they remained for about 200 years.

Who were you scholars that you studied under? And what books did they use?

Here is some evidence for the 3 dynasties after Alexanders death:

With the death of Seleucus the Diadochi Wars came to an end. Alexander’s empire was split in three – Macedonia, Ptolemaic Egypt and the Seleucid Empire, which briefly held most of the area that had made up the Persian Empire in the years before Alexander’s invasion. After a period of frequent and dramatic changes, these three states would now gain a certain amount of permanence, and would form the basis of the Hellenistic World for the next century and a half.

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/wars_diadochi.html

 

Diadochi: The Founders Of The Three Great Dynasties

As we saw, the three great dynasties that emerged after Alexander’s death were the Ptolemies, the Seleucids, and the Antigonids. The first two were established by the original Diadochi who had served in Alexander’s army. Only the Antigonids were established by Antigonus II Gonatas, the grandson of the original Diadochos, Antigonus I Monophthalmos.

http://turningpointsoftheancientworld.com/index.php/category/wars-of-the-diadochi/

Finally, nearly fifty years after the death of Alexander, relatively stable dynasties ruled Alexander's kingdom. The Ptolemies ruled Egypt and Southern Judea until the Age of Cleopatra, the Attalids ruled in Asia Minor, became allies of Rome and eventually voluntarily became a Roman province, and the Seleucid Dynasty, ruled much of the old Persian empire until being gradually conquered by the Parthians in the East, and Rome in the west.

https://www.heritage-history.com/index.php?c=resources&s=war-dir&f=wars_diadochi

By 276 BC, there were just 3 Diadochi Dynasties left, their territories roughly divided between the three continents that the Empire straddled: the Antigonids in Europe; the Seleucids in Asia; and the Ptolemies in Egypt (see map 4 - 276 BC). These three kingdoms gradually stabilized themselves and would remain ruled by the same dynasties for another couple of centuries.................... http://explorethemed.com/diadochi.asp?c=1

https://medium.com/exploring-history/the-cast-of-alexander-the-greats-sequel-the-diadochi-5bacaab33220

I wish I could remembered this better so at least I could search. 

So there were wealthy families in alexanders circle that supported and funded some of his escapades for their own financial benefit of course.

When Alexander died those families were apposed to each other and they divided also supporting the 4 generals and some supporting their own military campaigns for power. Where you are at is probably the continuation of those ruling families. I still have my books from school and hallies Bible encyclopedias with all the biblical world history. ill look through them. But with the internet you will find it before me. 

[Charlie744]

Just now, truth7t7 said:

Thanks for the response Charlie

Who do you believe is the stone in Daniel 2:34, and when has it struck the feet?

Jesus Is The Lord

Nope! I asked you first!

Because this question establishes the time line for everything one interprets in the later chapters of Daniel- including chapter 9 which the RCC corrupted by purposely (and successfully) throwing this AC figure 2000 years into the future so THEY would no longer be labeled as the little horn.

So, please tell me who the Stone is.  Thank you very much, Charlie 

[Charlie744]

8 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Thanks for the response Charlie

Who do you believe is the stone in Daniel 2:34, and when has it struck the feet?

What association does this have to the future (Little Horn) in Daniel chapters 7-8?

Jesus Is The Lord

Hope you do not mind me interjecting before your next response, but it took me months to realize just how important chapter 2 IS in all of this. It is not just the first interesting image - it establishes EVERYTHING that will take place in Daniel. The 4 kingdoms in 2 must be identified THERE in 2 and the boundaries and restrictions and rules are there and must be honored throughout Daniel to ensure our interpretations do not go to the left or right (example: AE, Seleucids, Ptolemy’s, and even this AC figure). 

Notice in chapter 2 - the dream sequence has ONE action - everything else is static. The Stone is the only movement or activity in the dream sequence. This movement establishes everything (interpretations) within the 4th kingdom.

So, who is this Stone?

Charlie

[Reinitin]

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

I was just showing you that there is a dispute over who was left after the Diadochi Wars. Some say there were five, some say four but there is disagreement on who the four were, and some say three. And history shows that 3 main kingdoms remained for two hundred years. That's significant. But it doesn't line up with Scripture.

Everyone says Scripture has the final word. I agree.

So why do so many people try to fit things in where they don't belong? It baffles me.

 

Thank you for this.

I hate to interrupt. But why doesn't it line up? I never heard that argument. Prophecy gives us enough to see Gods word is true. The Horns are rulers on a ram and goat (empire)?

Alexanders kingdom was divided between 4 rulers?

[truth7t7]

14 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Hope you do not mind me interjecting before your next response, but it took me months to realize just how important chapter 2 IS in all of this. It is not just the first interesting image - it establishes EVERYTHING that will take place in Daniel. The 4 kingdoms in 2 must be identified THERE in 2 and the boundaries and restrictions and rules are there and must be honored throughout Daniel to ensure our interpretations do not go to the left or right (example: AE, Seleucids, Ptolemy’s, and even this AC figure). 

Notice in chapter 2 - the dream sequence has ONE action - everything else is static. The Stone is the only movement or activity in the dream sequence. This movement establishes everything (interpretations) within the 4th kingdom.

So, who is this Stone?

Charlie

Charlie nothing removes that fact that the bad guy seen below will be present on earth to see the second coming and final judgement in the "Consummation" its before your eyes, simple and very easy to understand

Daniel Chapters 7,9,11 are all the same bad guy, Daniel's (Little Horn/The Beast) and yes hes the same bad guy as John's (The Beast) and Paul's (Man Of Sin)

"All Accounts" see this future bad guy present on earth to see the second coming and the (Ultimate End)

Daniel chapter 7:8-11 has this bad guy present on earth to witness the second coming and final judgement when the "Books Are Opened"

Daniel chapter 9:27 shows the bad guy will be present on earth to see the "Consummation" or "Ultimate End"

The (Little Horn) of Daniel is a future human man (Unfulfilled)

Daniel 7:8-11AKJV

8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. 9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. 10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.  11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Daniel 9:27AKJV

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

[angels4u]

57 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Thanks for the response!

Scripture teaches of a future 3.5 year tribulation, the time given to the (Two Witnesses) 1260 days in Revelation 11:3 and (The Beast) 42 months in Revelation 13:5 are "Parrallel" time frames totaling 3.5 years

The 3.5 year tribulation will start when the future (Little Horn, Man Of Sin, The Beast) is revealed in Jerusalem proclaiming to be Messiah God to the Jews

The (Two Witnesses) will stand before (The Beast) bringing the plagues seen in Revelation, a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, God's in control

Amen to all you said !

 

 

[Charlie744]

1 minute ago, truth7t7 said:

Charlie nothing removes that fact that the bad guy seen below will be present on earth to see the second coming and final judgement in the "Consummation" its before your eyes, simple and very easy to understand

Daniel Chapters 7,9,11 are all the same bad guy, Daniel's (Little Horn/The Beast) and yes hes the same bad guy as John's (The Beast) and Paul's (Man Of Sin)

"All Accounts" see this future bad guy present on earth to see the second coming and the (Ultimate End)

Daniel chapter 7:8-11 has this bad guy present on earth to witness the second coming and final judgement when the "Books Are Opened"

Daniel chapter 9:27 shows the bad guy will be present on earth to see the "Consummation" or "Ultimate End"

The (Little Horn) of Daniel is a future human man (Unfulfilled)

Daniel 7:8-11AKJV

8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. 9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. 10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.  11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Daniel 9:27AKJV

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Wait a minute, that’s not fair! You simply responded with the same answer from earlier which I used to base my question.

 I am NOT telling you what to think or interpret or believe but we are here to consider different views. 

The one comment you have just made regarding the little horn must be present to see the 2nd coming is TRUE. However, BOTH the beast AND the little horn will see Him but BOTH have been present on earth since before 600 AD. The little horn can be no other than the papacy, who came OUT of the beast. 

If you don’t want to provide your thoughts on who the Stone is (can only be one person), no problem. 

Maybe someone else in the forum following this topic that shares your interpretations of Daniel can comment?

Thanks for your thoughts, Charlie 

[truth7t7]

35 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Wait a minute, that’s not fair! You simply responded with the same answer from earlier which I used to base my question.

 I am NOT telling you what to think or interpret or believe but we are here to consider different views. 

The one comment you have just made regarding the little horn must be present to see the 2nd coming is TRUE. However, BOTH the beast AND the little horn will see Him but BOTH have been present on earth since before 600 AD. The little horn can be no other than the papacy, who came OUT of the beast. 

If you don’t want to provide your thoughts on who the Stone is (can only be one person), no problem. 

Maybe someone else in the forum following this topic that shares your interpretations of Daniel can comment?

Thanks for your thoughts, Charlie 

We disagree Charlie, the little horn is described with personal pronouns he, his , a literal "Future" human man, that will be present on earth until the "Consummation" or "Ultimate End"

Charlie your claim the little horn represents the papacy is unfounded, as you have also been shown that this future human man will be a Jew/Hebrew in decent as Daniel 11:37 clearly describes

Charlie the reformed historicist view is wrong, and your reading why before your eyes

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Daniel 7:11AKJV

11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Daniel 9:27AKJV

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The Future Human Man, The Antichrist Seen Below In (Daniel) 11:37 Will Be A Hebrew/Jew In Decent, His Fathers Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)

(Daniel) 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Examples: God Of His Fathers

(2 Kings) 21:22KJV
22 And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.

(2 Chronicles) 21:10KJV
10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.

Edited December 19, 2021 by truth7t7

[Charlie744]

1 minute ago, truth7t7 said:

We disagree Charlie, the little horn is described with personal pronouns he, his , a literal human man

Charlie your claim the little horn represents the papacy is unfounded, as you have also been shown that this future human man will be a Jew/Hebrew in decent as Daniel 11:37 clearly describes

Daniel 7:11AKJV

11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Daniel 9:27AKJV

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The Future Human Man, The Antichrist Seen Below In (Daniel) 11:37 Will Be A Hebrew/Jew In Decent, His Fathers Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)

(Daniel) 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Examples: God Of His Fathers

(2 Kings) 21:22KJV
22 And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.

(2 Chronicles) 21:10KJV
10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.

You are correct- the little horn does have eyes, he IS a man. The papacy is run by a man, a pope! He will continue until His return and speak against the Most High. He will THINK to change times and laws... he will cast down stars...  on and on . The RCC has murdered mire than 50 million people in the name of the Catholic Church. He will NOT honor the God of his father.. He will magnify himself... 

Your 9:27 interpretation is right out of the RCC playbook- 100%. Completely corrupted. 

Chapter 11 has nothing to do with Greece or AE or anyone from that period. Once again the answer to ALL of Daniel is to throw away your secular history books, stop attempting to match the actors and events with OUR history and look for the Messiah in Daniel- you will find Him.

Daniel is not a history book but a prophetic book that is about the coming Messiah (1st and 2nd). What is so interesting to read these interpretations is they do not contain anything about the Messiah- only His second coming! 

Do you really believe God simply wanted to educate us on Greece or AE, or essentially go from Greece to the end of time where EVERYTHING will occur within some mythical 7 year tribulation period and some boogeyman who is going to make a treaty with the Jews? 

This ALL came from the Jesuits in 1520’s as a counter reformation measure- and with the power and resources of the RCC they marketed this like no Wall Street marketing group could ever imagine. 

But I certainly understand how difficult Daniel is to unpack and interpret- it is an absolute MONSTER. I was fortunate in that I never read or studied Daniel until 4 years ago so I did not have to unlearn what all the scholars and academics have decided what the accepted interpretations are for Daniel- even though THEY can not get close to a consensus on the many difficult and important verses. 

I was able to start from scratch, read what they all believed and spent the last 4 years using their interpretations, question them - not merely accepting them and move to the next verse and chapter. 

So, I will return to my work and try to finish writing the rough commentary. 

Again, thanks for your comments and willingness to discuss, Charlie