The Day of His Sympathy

[Guest]

13 hours ago, AdHoc said:

OK. A "convenient lie" you, but for Jesus our Lord a reason to deny you before God, angels and men. In Matthew 7 it is a case of no intimate relationship, but good service.

I understand your reasoning, but we'll be in total disagreement on this issue. If we look at v 23 it defines them as workers of "iniquity," and as those He never knew as His. Scripture doesn't relate the righteous as sinners. A sinner isn't just one who sins, but who sins "willfully." Acts that appear to be righteous fall short apart from an absence of love to God (1Co 13:1 - of course not suspecting you here).

Edited December 25, 2021 by WordSword

[AdHoc]

4 hours ago, WordSword said:

I understand your reasoning, but we'll be in total disagreement on this issue. If we look at v 23 it defines them as workers of "iniquity," and as those He never knew as His. Scripture doesn't relate the righteous as sinners. A sinner isn't just one who sins, but who sins "willfully." Acts that appear to be righteous fall short apart from an absence of love to God (1Co 13:1 - of course not suspecting you here).

Thank you for your reply. I am familiar with your argument, although I would not have added, "... those He never knew AS HIS". This changes the meaning of the word "knew" completely. In my first comprehensive posting on this matter, posting 6 on page 1, I was careful to explain the meaning of "knew" as it is in the Greek.

I know you are probably confronted with the matter for the first time, and need time to work through it, but may I respectfully point out where your argument has gone.

1. Those who the Lord knows are His and are sinless, may enter the Kingdom.
2. Those who the Lord knows are His and who deny him before men, and who are found to have broken fellowship with the saints because of their ethnicity, like Peter did, have sinned in a minor way and it is overlooked by the Lord
3. Those who have known the Lord by Name and cast out demons and done many wondrous works in Jesus' Name, are cast out of the Kingdom although none of their works was a sin. They are cast out because Jesus did not know them as His. But this is not true because the Lord Himself said that entry into the Kingdom was by OBEDIENCE, not by His knowledge of them or not.

Now, let us address your statement; "a sinner isn't just one who sins ... ". Do you really believe that? But it was joined to, "... but who sins willfully." But men always involve their will when they sin.

But even if you were correct, let us examine Luke 12:41–48.

41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more

Verse 41 establishes that the Lord was talking to His disciples, NOT "all", because only disciples are "servants" within the context. In verse 36 it is "THEIR Lord". Again in verse 43 it is "HIS lord". That servant who knew his Lord's will will be beaten (v.47). But that servant that DID NOT KNOW his Lord's will WILL ALSO BE BEATEN! And to crown it all, the servant is still called "servant" after  his sins and sentence because in verse 47 it is "HIS Lord's will".

You see brother, a Christian can sin, whether willfully, habitually and/or ignorantly. He will be punished whether the sins were big or small. But he is a "servant" BEFORE the event, and he is STILL A SERVANT after the event. The punishment is "a portion with the unbelievers". What does this mean? Does it mean the Lake of Fire. NO! The punishment is the opposite of "make him ruler over all His things" in verse 44. To enter the Kingdom one must be born again and baptized (Jn.3:3-5). This is achieved by FAITH (Jn.1:12-13). The portion of the unbeliever is not the Lake of Fire. In Revelation 20 those go to the Lake of Fire because of WORKS! Each man is judge by what he DID (see also Isaiah 66:24). The "portion of the unbeliever is to be excluded for what God made man in Genesis 1:26-28 - to rule the earth.

May I humbly make a suggestion. Please don't hesitate to refuse. But I suggest you go back to the 6th posting on page 1 and read it sentence for sentence. You might disagree with the end result, but see if you can find a wrong statement. If I have strung together 30 correct sentences, there is a good chance I was right.

Whatever you decide, God bless (and keep reading Mackintosh and his friends). They all agree with me. In fact, they were the ones to discover that a Christian can be saved and not enter the Kingdom. I'm just one of their students.

 

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Thank you for your reply. I am familiar with your argument, although I would not have added, "... those He never knew AS HIS". This changes the meaning of the word "knew" completely. In my first comprehensive posting on this matter, posting 6 on page 1, I was careful to explain the meaning of "knew" as it is in the Greek.

I know you are probably confronted with the matter for the first time, and need time to work through it, but may I respectfully point out where your argument has gone.

1. Those who the Lord knows are His and are sinless, may enter the Kingdom.
2. Those who the Lord knows are His and who deny him before men, and who are found to have broken fellowship with the saints because of their ethnicity, like Peter did, have sinned in a minor way and it is overlooked by the Lord
3. Those who have known the Lord by Name and cast out demons and done many wondrous works in Jesus' Name, are cast out of the Kingdom although none of their works was a sin. They are cast out because Jesus did not know them as His. But this is not true because the Lord Himself said that entry into the Kingdom was by OBEDIENCE, not by His knowledge of them or not.

Though I appreciate your attention to explaining what and why you believe on this issue, it's clear we just understand many things differently. Of course, continuing to "seek" truth eventuates in "finding it" (Mat 7:7), just as all who are reborn are continually under God's "work" within to "desire and do His good pleasure" (Phl 2:13). Those who appear to be in this state will eventually leave it if not reborn, manifesting a life that has yet to be saved, for this "work" is a permanent establishment in Christ and will ever indwell a true believer.

I like that you also find the Plymouth Brethren writings useful, as I also have and have been sharing them for nearly 20 years now. I would also like to share John Gill's comment on Mat 7:21-23:

https://www.christianity.com/bible/commentary/john-gill/matthew/7

 

God's blessings to your Family!

Edited December 25, 2021 by WordSword

[AdHoc]

4 hours ago, WordSword said:

Though I appreciate your attention to explaining what and why you believe on this issue, it's clear we just understand many things differently. Of course, continuing to "seek" truth eventuates in "finding it" (Mat 7:7), just as all who are reborn are continually under God's "work" within to "desire and do His good pleasure" (Phl 2:13). Those who appear to be in this state will eventually leave it if not reborn, manifesting a life that has yet to be saved, for this "work" is a permanent establishment in Christ and will ever indwell a true believer.

I like that you also find the Plymouth Brethren writings useful, as I also have and have been sharing them for nearly 20 years now. I would also like to share John Gill's comment on Mat 7:21-23:

https://www.christianity.com/bible/commentary/john-gill/matthew/7

 

God's blessings to your Family!

Thanks for the reply and the wishes. I like your quiet honesty.