Sabbath Issues

[R. Hartono]

4 hours ago, Bawb said:

I find it amazing when people who keep the commandments are called freaks and maniacs...

Would these words have come from the mouth of Yeshua?

Would He have said this or is this something that "The Lawless One" would have stated?

Maybe look what the Scriptures say about it?

1 John 3:4 - Whosoever practices sin also transgresses the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Isaiah 58:12 through14- 12Your people will rebuild the ancient ruins; you will restore the age-old foundations; you will be called Repairer of the Breach, Restorer of the Streets of Dwelling. 13If you turn your foot from breaking the Sabbath, from doing as you please on My holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight, and YeHoVah’s holy day honorable, if you honor it by not going your own way or seeking your own pleasure or speaking idle words, 14then you will delight yourself in the YeHoVah, and I will make you ride on the heights of the land and feed you with the heritage of your father Jacob.” For the mouth of the YeHoVah has spoken.

I remember people being called Jesus Freaks in school. Now this is where we are? Calling believers Sabbath maniacs?

Please read Paul said not to judge people who do not follow Sabbath ? Why do you judge ? 

And you try to teach gentile that Sabbath law who authorize you ? Thats why Peter rebuked them. 

Sabbath is one of the 613 mitzvot of Torah, you take all or leave all, don't you understand ? Including sacrificing animals for sin atonement like those Jews in modern  Israel do in passover, that deny Jesus as the Lamb of God.

Better Follow the early disciples rather than becoming Acute theologians 

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by R. Hartono

[Bawb]

48 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

 

Please read Paul said not to judge people who do not follow Sabbath ? Why do you judge ? 

Please read and UNDERSTAND Colossians 2:16 - Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath.     Now, think real hard. Was Paul speaking to Believing Jews and Gentiles or was he speaking to a group of heathens and pagans?

And you try to teach gentile that Sabbath law who authorize you ?

Matthew 5:17 through 19 - 17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. I'd say I'm on the right side of this fence. And supported by Scripture to do so.

Thats why Peter rebuked them. So Peter being a Jewish keeper of the TORAH and the Sabbath rebuked Paul for keeping the Sabbath? SHOW ME THAT SCRIPTURE!

Sabbath is one of the 613 mitzvot of Torah, you take all or leave all, don't you understand ? Including sacrificing animals for sin atonement like those Jews in modern Israel do in passover, that deny Jesus as the Lamb of God. The Sabbath is one of the TEN COMMANDMENTS. Do YOU understand this?

The Ten Commandments

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall make no idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10.You shall not covet.

John 14:15 through 17 - 15If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.

And the Biblical definition of the Love of God is found in:

1 John 5:3 - "This is the love of God, that we keep His Commandments, and His Commandments are not burdensome."

People wrongly assume that keeping God's Law applied only to the Old Testament believers and today, in the New Testament and under the Covenant of mercy and grace, we are not required to obey the Commandments of God.

So by your logic, we can murder and steal since we don't keep the Sabbath (which is the 4th Commandment by the way).

Better Follow the early disciples rather than becoming Acute theologians. Okay... I hope you'll do the same!

An example is found in Acts 13…

    Acts 13:13 – Now when Paul and his party set sail from Paphos, they came to Perga in Pamphylia; and John, departing from them, returned to Jerusalem. 14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. 15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, “Men [and] brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.”

So here is another example where Paul and the other disciples came to the Synagogue in Perga to attend the Sabbath Service.

A little later in the chapter, after Paul shares Yeshua with them we see that the Gentiles were quite interested.

    Acts 13:42 – So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

    Acts 13:43 – Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of YeHoVah 44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of YeHoVah.

So here is the fifth time that the disciples attended a Sabbath service on the day that YeHoVahh sanctified at creation. Again, the seventh day is called “the Sabbath” in this passage.

Here is another example in Acts 16…

    Acts 16:11 – Therefore, sailing from Troas, we ran a straight course to Samothrace, and the next [day] came to Neapolis, 12 and from there to Philippi, which is the foremost city of that part of Macedonia, a colony. And we were staying in that city for some days. 13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met [there].

It was the custom of the Jews of that day for the rabbi to shut down the synagogue if there were not at least 10 men that would show up for the Sabbath meeting. This could very well be why there were women meeting by the riverside for prayer. Nevertheless, we see that the disciples sought a place to meet for the Sabbath and they did. Again, the seventh day is called “the Sabbath Day” in this passage.

    Acts 18:1 – After these things Paul departed from Athens and went to Corinth. 2 And he found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla (because Claudius had commanded all the Jews to depart from Rome); and he came to them. 3 So, because he was of the same trade, he stayed with them and worked; for by occupation they were tentmakers. 4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

So we see that he worked on the other days as a tentmaker, but on the Sabbath He was not. Does this not demonstrate that He was keeping the Sabbath, as he had done his entire life?

Here again we see that both Jews and Greeks are in the synagogue and on the Sabbath. Paul among them, attending the Sabbath services. The interesting thing about this verse is that instead of the scripture saying that they attended only one or three sabbath services, it says that he was there every Sabbath persuading both Jews and Greeks.

Again, the seventh day is called “the Sabbath” in this passage so we know that we can at least count one. Let’s do that..

Now if Paul was in Corinth and was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath, all we have to do is find out how long he stayed in Corinth to discover how many Sabbaths he actually attended.

Let’s look further..

    Acts 18:5 – When Silas and Timothy had come from Macedonia, Paul was compelled by the Spirit, and testified to the Jews [that] Yeshua [is] the Messiah. 6 But when they opposed him and blasphemed, he shook [his] garments and said to them, “Your blood [be] upon your [own] heads; I [am] clean. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.” 7 And he departed from there and entered the house of a certain [man] named Justus, [one] who worshiped God, whose house was next door to the synagogue. 8 Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Master with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized. 9 Now the Master spoke to Paul in the night by a vision, “Do not be afraid, but speak, and do not keep silent; 10 “for I am with you, and no one will attack you to hurt you; for I have many people in this city.” 11 And he continued [there] a year and six months, teaching the word of Elohim among them.

A year and six months!

Finally the ruler of the synagogue was converted to believe in Yeshua and Paul was there a year and six months! So the scripture says that Paul was there every Sabbath and that he was there for a year and six months. If we counted this by the Gregorian calendar that would give us 52 Sabbaths in a year plus 26 Sabbaths in the following six months, giving us a a total of 78 Sabbaths! Now lets add this to our present total:

So we can see that the disciples attended a Sabbath service 85 times in the book of Acts alone. Again, the seventh day is called “the Sabbath” in this passage.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Bawb

[R. Hartono]

@Bawb

Acute Theologians pharisees who tried to teach Hebrew Law to gentiles were rebuked by Peter.

You were not even the Hebrew. 

The Acute pharisees did not understand the message that God has Torn down the curtain at the Temple with all its practice.

Edited December 30, 2021 by R. Hartono

[Bawb]

49 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

@Bawb

The Acute pharisees did not understand the message that God has Torn down the curtain at the Temple with all its practice.

I showed you where the Apostles KEPT the Sabbath even after Yehsua's ascension. Please show me the Scriptures pertaining to what you were speaking of in your previous post. "And you try to teach gentile that Sabbath law who authorize you ? Thats why Peter rebuked them." Where is this rebuke you speak of? And I showed you the consequences of teaching the Commandments have been done away with in no uncertain terms in Matthew 5:19, did I not?

Acute Theologians pharisees who tried to teach Hebrew Law to gentiles were rebuked by Peter. But the Ten Commandments are God's laws aren't they? https://biblescripture.net/Commandments.html

You were not even the Hebrew. 

I am Grafted In... That's THE ONLY WAY any Gentiles have a place in the Kingdom or association with the Jewish Messiah.

In Romans 11:11–24 Paul compares Israel to the natural branches of a cultivated olive tree and the Gentile believers to the branches of a wild olive tree. The natural branches (Israel) were broken off, and the wild branches (Gentiles) were grafted in (verse 17). The Gentiles, then, have been made partakers of the promises and inherit the blessings of God’s salvation.

It is important to understand how God called Israel to be His people and how they failed to fulfill that calling. As the seed of Abraham, the children of Israel were chosen by God to be a separate people, holy to the Lord. God’s design was for them to be a light to the Gentiles so that they, too, might know God (Genesis 18:17–19; Isaiah 42, 49). Instead, the Israelites chased foreign gods and betrayed their calling (Ezekiel 23; Hosea 11). But God, who knew they would do this, had already promised to restore His kingdom to Israel after they rebelled and then eventually repented (Deuteronomy 30:1–10). So God sent His Son, preceded by a forerunner, to invite Israel to “repent, for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matthew 3:2; 4:17).

While the “natural branches” were cut off because Israel failed, God’s purposes are not complete until Israel is also grafted back into the people of God to share in the promises to Abraham and his seed. This brings full circle God’s larger redemptive plan (Romans 11:30–36) for both Jews and Gentiles as distinct populations within the people of God in the Davidic (or Millennial) Kingdom. Indeed, the prophets saw this Kingdom as the “final form” of the olive tree, so that Israel—reversing roles—would then bless the Gentiles, enabling them to join the people of God (see Zechariah 8:13, 20–23).

 

 

[other one]

Jesus admitted working on the Sabbath so if it was still in force he sinned and we are all going to hell. 

[other one]

Btw, if you wanted to talk to a bunch of Jews in the first century, you would find them in good sized numbers in the synagogue on the Sabbath.  Just because that is where they went to preach isn't really keeping the Sabbath.

 

[Bawb]

4 minutes ago, other one said:

Jesus admitted working on the Sabbath so if it was still in force he sinned and we are all going to hell. 

I think you accused Yehsua of doing this before, didn't you?

And I ask you again, "What command stated the Sabbath was done away with?"

Also please consider the following: Yeshua’s custom was to be in the synagogue on Sabbath (Luke 4:16). It is common in our modern times to hear the question, What Would Jesus Do? Here, then, is an obvious answer. If it were the custom of Yeshua to be with the gathered people of God on the Sabbath, would it not make perfect sense to do what He did? And if we are His disciples, before we stop doing what He did, should we not expect a clear statement in Scripture to that effect? On what basis should we disregard the direct commandments of God and the clear example of His Son, Yeshua?

But where is there any statement in Scripture telling us that YeHoVah no longer wants us to keep the Sabbath day? Where has He withdrawn the wonderful gift of Sabbath which He gave to His children? Where is the teaching of Yeshua for us, His disciples, saying that the Sabbath has been changed? There is none. Should we follow the 3rd and 4th Century Church leaders who said that the command of God, one that carried the death penalty for its neglect (Exodus 31:14; Numbers 15:32) is no longer important? Would we say the same thing about any of the other commandments? Why are we so willing to dismiss the fourth commandment without any direct statement of Scripture to do so?

Moreover, why would Yeshua , in speaking of the last days, tell us “pray that your flight not be . . . on the Sabbath” (Matthew 24:20)? Would not He have known that the Sabbath would be done away with for the last-days Church? Why should the Sabbath be a concern for anyone in the last days? Obviously Yeshua never envisioned a time when the Sabbath would be suspended.

[Bawb]

56 minutes ago, other one said:

Btw, if you wanted to talk to a bunch of Jews in the first century, you would find them in good sized numbers in the synagogue on the Sabbath.  Just because that is where they went to preach isn't really keeping the Sabbath.

 

BTW if you wanted to talk about the fact the Messiah being a Jew and all of the Apostles being Jew, you would see it renders your statement pretty ignorant. The fact the Old Testament and the New Testament is a Jewish document that was written by Jews, to Jews and for Jews puts this into perspective, especially with keeping the 4th of the Ten Commandments.

Romans 1:16 - I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first, then to the Gentile.

You skate on thin ice with your "bunch of Jews" statement...

Numbers 24:9 - The nation is like a mighty lion; When it is sleeping, no one dares wake it.
Whoever blesses Israel will be blessed, And whoever curses Israel will be cursed.

Who do you think gave us the Bible? Who birthed the Messiah? Who's faith prophesied His coming? Who were the first 3,200 Believers in Yeshua? Who was the covenant old and new first made with?

The "Jews" already believed in the one and only true God. They also knew the correct ways to worship him. All they had to do was accept Yeshua as Messiah.

Meanwhile pagans and heathens were worshiping the sun god, moon goddess, burning their kids and headed for hell.

The Lion of Judah is returning with a whole bunch of "other Jews" on the day of God's wrath.

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Bawb

[other one]

1 hour ago, Bawb said:

I think you accused Yehsua of doing this before, didn't you?

And I ask you again, "What command stated the Sabbath was done away with?"

Also please consider the following: Yeshua’s custom was to be in the synagogue on Sabbath (Luke 4:16). It is common in our modern times to hear the question, What Would Jesus Do? Here, then, is an obvious answer. If it were the custom of Yeshua to be with the gathered people of God on the Sabbath, would it not make perfect sense to do what He did? And if we are His disciples, before we stop doing what He did, should we not expect a clear statement in Scripture to that effect? On what basis should we disregard the direct commandments of God and the clear example of His Son, Yeshua?

But where is there any statement in Scripture telling us that YeHoVah no longer wants us to keep the Sabbath day? Where has He withdrawn the wonderful gift of Sabbath which He gave to His children? Where is the teaching of Yeshua for us, His disciples, saying that the Sabbath has been changed? There is none. Should we follow the 3rd and 4th Century Church leaders who said that the command of God, one that carried the death penalty for its neglect (Exodus 31:14; Numbers 15:32) is no longer important? Would we say the same thing about any of the other commandments? Why are we so willing to dismiss the fourth commandment without any direct statement of Scripture to do so?

Moreover, why would Yeshua , in speaking of the last days, tell us “pray that your flight not be . . . on the Sabbath” (Matthew 24:20)? Would not He have known that the Sabbath would be done away with for the last-days Church? Why should the Sabbath be a concern for anyone in the last days? Obviously Yeshua never envisioned a time when the Sabbath would be suspended.

No, you did.  I just quoted my Lord. He just confesses he was working on the Sabbath, you are the one saying it is still in effect.

[other one]

1 hour ago, Bawb said:

BTW if you wanted to talk about the fact the Messiah being a Jew and all of the Apostles being Jew, you would see it renders your statement pretty ignorant. The fact the Old Testament and the New Testament is a Jewish document that was written by Jews, to Jews and for Jews puts this into perspective, especially with keeping the 4th of the Ten Commandments.

Romans 1:16 - I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first, then to the Gentile.

You skate on thin ice with your "bunch of Jews" statement...

Numbers 24:9 - The nation is like a mighty lion; When it is sleeping, no one dares wake it.
Whoever blesses Israel will be blessed, And whoever curses Israel will be cursed.

Who do you think gave us the Bible? Who birthed the Messiah? Who's faith prophesied His coming? Who were the first 3,200 Believers in Yeshua? Who was the covenant old and new first made with?

The "Jews" already believed in the one and only true God. They also knew the correct ways to worship him. All they had to do was accept Yeshua as Messiah.

Meanwhile pagans and heathens were worshiping the sun god, moon goddess, burning their kids and headed for hell.

The Lion of Judah is returning with a whole bunch of "other Jews" on the day of God's wrath.

 

Along with millions of gentiles.