The Rapture Propaganda Of The 70's-80's A Theif In The Night Series

[The Light]

10 hours ago, Andriya said:

That could have been a CIA psyop.

What struck me recently while reading the Revelation is one thing concerning Rapture.

The Revelation of John seems to be divided into different narratives. The first division is that into the seven epistles on the one hand and the events revealed in heaven on the other hand. The former narrative concerns contemporary things, the latter concerns the latter days.

Now to the heavenly vision. The heavenly vision can be further divided into the following narratives. 1st narrative: The seal judgments. 2nd narrative: The trumpet judgements. 3rd narrative: All that can be read in chapters 10 to 19. 4th narrative: The bowl judgments.

Chapters 10-11 are part of the trumpets.

Chapter 13-14 take place during the seals.

Chapter 15-16 are the bowls and they are just different information of what occur in the wrath of God. In other words, the trumpets and bowls happen in the same time frame.

 

10 hours ago, Andriya said:

Concerning the narrative of the seal judgments: On reading what is written there, I am reminded of Jesus' statement in Mk 13:7: “And when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. This must take place, but the end is not yet.“ Those things related there (rumors of wars, diseases etc.) has occurred throughout human history after the resurrection until now.

Mark 6-8 is the same timeframe as Matthew 5-8. These false Christs, wars, famines and pestilence that Jesus describes are the four horses that John describes in the seals.

10 hours ago, Andriya said:

The distress described by the trumpet judgments and the things described in chapters 10 to 19 as well as the bowl judgments seem to be much worse, so it could be the description of the great end-time distress of Mt 24:21: “For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.“

No. The great tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins. The great tribulation happens at seal #5. We can tell the tribulation is over with the coming of Jesus at seal #6 by these verses.

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

 

10 hours ago, Andriya said:

The question arises: Will the Antichrist defeat the famous two witnesses (cf. Rev. chapter 11) before this great distress, after it, during it or will it be interrupted by the reign of the Antichrist? This question remains unanswered.

We can tell from the verses that I already posted that the great tribulation is over before the 1st trumpet is blown.

10 hours ago, Andriya said:

Yet one thing can be gathered from Revelation - only when an angel blows the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19) will the believers behold God, and this event is described in parallel with Revelation 10:6 (the final judgement) as well as with the trumpet announcing what the Christians call Rapture in 1

This is incorrect. Jesus comes at the 6th seal. All eyes will see him.

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

10 hours ago, Andriya said:

Thessalonians 4:16: “For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.“

No. This is the rapture of the Church when the Lord Himself comes in the secret pretribulation rapture.

Here is the second rapture when HE SENDS HIS ANGELS, at the 6th seal.

Matthew 24

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

10 hours ago, Andriya said:

After all, in view of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and also of Mt 25:1-13 I do think that there will be a Rapture, but I do not think that it will take place long before the Final Judgement as it is stated in Revelation 10:6 that there will be “no more delay“. Thus I assume that the so called “Rapture“ will take place exactly at the time of the Final Judgement - the Rapture and the Final Judgement seem to happen synchronously. As regards Mt. 24:34 (“this generation“), the question arises what the term “generation“ means. The Greek term for “generation“ is genea, and this can also mean “nation“, “race“ etc. Maybe it isn't a term denoting contemporary people but the Church or the Kingdom of God.

The secret pretribulation rapture of the Church happens before the seals are opened. The second rapture happens at the 6th seal which is before the wrath of God even begins.

Edited January 21, 2022 by The Light

[truth7t7]

50 minutes ago, Josheb said:

TOS 

Relevant OP

 

 

Moving on now. 

A "Future Generation" that will be eyewitnesses of the Lord's return, as you teach and believe This Generation "was" fulfilled in the 1st century

Edited January 21, 2022 by truth7t7

[Andriya]

On 1/21/2022 at 7:53 PM, The Light said:

No. The great tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins.

Imho, the wrath of God is the Final Judgement, which of course follows the great tribulation (θλίψις) of Matthew 24:7. Or do you mean that the Final Judgement can be equated with the “θλίψις“?

On 1/21/2022 at 7:53 PM, The Light said:

This is incorrect. Jesus comes at the 6th seal. All eyes will see him.

You are right with what you said concerning the 6th seal. Nevertheless, I am not convinced that there will be a pretribulation rapture – what is if Thessalonians 4:16 and Matthew 24:30-31 mean the same event?

[truth7t7]

23 minutes ago, Andriya said:

Imho, the wrath of God is the Final Judgement, which of course follows the great tribulation (θλίψις) of Matthew 24:7. Or do you mean that the Final Judgement can be equated with the “θλίψις“?

You are right with what you said concerning the 6th seal. Nevertheless, I am not convinced that there will be a pretribulation rapture – what is if Thessalonians 4:16 and Matthew 24:30-31 mean the same event?

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

[The Light]

4 hours ago, Andriya said:

Imho, the wrath of God is the Final Judgement, which of course follows the great tribulation (θλίψις) of Matthew 24:7. Or do you mean that the Final Judgement can be equated with the “θλίψις“?

The great tribulation is not Matt 24:7. It is Matt 24:15-21

Matt 24

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Here is the great tribulation in Revelation at the 5th Seal.

Rev 6

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Here is the coming of Jesus in Matt 24

Matt 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Here is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal

Rev 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Then the wrath of God begins.

 

4 hours ago, Andriya said:

You are right with what you said concerning the 6th seal. Nevertheless, I am not convinced that there will be a pretribulation rapture – what is if Thessalonians 4:16 and Matthew 24:30-31 mean the same event?

Your point is a dandy. It takes a lot of correct logic to realize that Thessalonians 4:16 and Matthew 24:30-31 are not the same event. There is a rapture at the 6th seal, but it is not the Church being raptured. The Church is raptured before the seals are opened. The seals are the 70th week of Daniel. The 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel and has nothing to do with the Church.

Dan 9

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Your point is a dandy. It takes a lot of correct logic to realize that Thessalonians 4:16 and Matthew 24:30-31 are not the same event. There is a rapture at the 6th seal, but it is not the Church being raptured. The Church is raptured before the seals are opened. The seals are the 70th week of Daniel. The 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel and has nothing to do with the Church.

Dan 9

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

I disagree, Matthew 24:29-31 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 are the exact same event of the second coming and last day resurrection

You will note the Second coming, last day resurrection, as the Angel's gather, same as the parable of the wheat/tares, the Angel's gather 

Matthew 24:29-31KJV

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

The Church is raptured before the seals are opened. The seals are the 70th week of Daniel. The 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel and has nothing to do with the Church.

Dan 9

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

I disagree, no such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture

The Church will be present on earth during the tribulation, and be witnesses of the "Second Coming" of Jesus Christ in the heavens

Luke 21:25-28KJV

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Edited January 25, 2022 by truth7t7

[The Light]

On 1/25/2022 at 9:26 AM, truth7t7 said:

I disagree, no such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture

The Church will be present on earth during the tribulation, and be witnesses of the "Second Coming" of Jesus Christ in the heavens

Luke 21:25-28KJV

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Yeah, excellent. And if you keep reading....

Luke 21

³⁶ Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

It says that we can ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS. That means we can escape ALL THE THINGS OF THE SEALS, which includes the beginning of sorrows and the great tribulation.

Learn the parable of the fig tree. There are two harvests.

[truth7t7]

2 hours ago, The Light said:

Yeah, excellent. And if you keep reading....

Luke 21

³⁶ Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

It says that we can ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS. That means we can escape ALL THE THINGS OF THE SEALS, which includes the beginning of sorrows and the great tribulation.

Learn the parable of the fig tree. There are two harvests.

The Great Tribulation Will Be Upon The Antichrist And Wicked, The Sealed Church Is Protected, Dont Be Deceived

The Sealed Church On Earth During The Tribulation Will Escape The Plagues Seen

There's Going To Be An End Times Persecution, The Beast And His Kingdom Are The Target Of God's Empowered (Two Witnesses)

The Great Tribulation Will Come Upon The Wicked World, While The (Sealed Church) Is Protected

The (Sealed Church) will be present on earth and protected, when wicked men are tormented 5 months, desiring to die as death flees

All saved believers are (Sealed) by God, Eph 1:13, 4:30

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

It Was Commanded, Only Those Without God's Seal Will Be Tormented, The Sealed Church Is Protected

Revelation 9:3-6KJV
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Plagues upon The Beast and his Kingdom, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

Revelation 11:3-6KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

Edited January 27, 2022 by truth7t7