Lord: Rise Now and Judge the World

[angels4u]

14 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

So if it can mean either saints or angels...what is the main thing that would prevent you from thinking it could mean saints? 

 

KJV

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

[transmogrified]

On 1/25/2022 at 8:23 PM, seeking the lost said:

Rapture is of those who are alive and remain.

You do recall that the two witnesses were dead and came to life.  Their going up is more like an ascension.

Hello there seeking the lost-

Hope you are having a good day...The two witnesses ascended up into heaven as you say, but there is not any difference between being 'caught up' or being 'translated' or being 'raptured' or 'ascending'...they all are saying the same thing...supernaturally being transported to another location...whether it was like Phillup's translation to Azotus or saints being translated into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

The phrase 'the dead in christ shall rise first' in and of itself does not mean a resurrection from the dead...but means they rise up into heaven, but of course the context requires that they first be resurrected from the dead in order for this to take place. 

The difference is not that the living are raptured and the dead are not, its the same process being enacted upon both groups...the dead rise up to heaven and then descend down with Jesus, while the living rise up to the clouds to meet them in the air and both groups, living and dead, descend down to reign on the earth.

Seems like the word 'raptured' has kind of sidetracked what really happens as most everyone refers it to those who are alive being caught up...which is true of course, however they are not the only ones it happens to.

Blessings to you- Gary

[transmogrified]

7 minutes ago, angels4u said:

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Right...that was the scripture he was referencing too...he was saying that the word translated 'saints' can also mean angels...so I think he is wanting some proof that these 'saints' in Jude coming down with Jesus are people rather than angels.

The issue is kind of immaterial, for when we are changed at the resurrection we become like the angels and have a body like Jesus' glorified body...but there are scriptures that show the saints are coming down along with the angels...as it says in Matthew 24:31 'And he shall send his angels and THEY shall gather together his ELECT from the one end of heaven to the other....so of course the angels aren't gathering other angels...they are gathering his saints ...Blessings to you

[Keras]

Isaiah 42:14-15 Long have I restrained Myself, I kept silence and held Myself in check. I shall lay waste to mountain and hill, dry up the trees and fields. I shall dry up the rivers and empty the lakes.

The Lord is about to act once again in His creation – The Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath - the next prophesied, worldwide event. The first of a series of judgements and punishments to His enemies and blessings to His faithful Christian people, Isaiah 44:1-3,             leading to the culmination of this age – the Return of Jesus.

 

Isaiah 42:11-17 The Lord will go forth as a warrior; He will shout His battle cry and will triumph over His enemies.

I will guide the blind along unfamiliar paths and will make the way smooth for them. But those who do not trust Me, they will be put to shame.

Isaiah 42:10-12 Sing a new song to the Lord – throughout the world, you on the seas and    you that inhabit the coasts and islands. Let all people give glory to the Lord!

 

Isaiah 42:18-20 Hear now: you deaf people, you My servants that are blind: look and see! Who is so blind as My servants? So deaf as the messengers that I send?      You have seen much, but perceived little. Your ears are open but you hear nothing.

The Lord’s servants: every faithful Christian, all those who love Him and obey His Laws, fail to see or listen to the truths that are prophesied about these end times. 

Why is this?

Isaiah 29:9-12 If you confuse yourselves, you will stay confused. For the Lord has poured on you a spirit of deep stupor, the prophetic vision of it all has become like the words in a sealed book.

How can we really understand what the prophets are telling us?

2 Peter 1:19 We have the word of the prophets, you do well to pay attention to it, as a light shining in a dark place and when the day dawns, it will illuminate your minds.

Isaiah 29:22-24 This is no time for Jacob to be afraid, when they see what I will do for them, they will regard their God with awe. The confused will gain understanding and the obstinate will accept instruction.

Jacob/Israel and Joseph; now refer to every faithful Christian person. Gal. 3:26-29

So, it may not be until after the Lord has acted against His enemies, that His people will finally realize and understand His plans and purposes for them. Psalms 60:1-5

 

Zechariah 10:6-12 I shall give triumph and victory to Judah and Joseph and in My compassion, I shall restore them as though I had never cast them off. My people will see and be glad, for I will deliver them. I will whistle to call them in and they will be as many as they used to be. Though dispersed among the nations and yet in far off lands, they will remember Me. I shall bring them home from wherever they are and will lead them into all the holy Land, until there is no more room.  Their  strength will be in God, they will march proudly in His Name.                                   Ref: REB, some verses abridged     

                    

The Lord’s Christian  people are gathered and settled into their own Land, after He judges and punishes His enemies.  Jeremiah 12:14-17, Ezekiel 20:34-38, Isaiah 11:11-12       Unfortunately these events will come as a surprise to the secular world and to many Bible believers. Why should you be shocked and taken unawares by them?

[transmogrified]

On 1/28/2022 at 6:42 PM, Keras said:

The Lord’s Christian  people are gathered and settled into their own Land, after He judges and punishes His enemies.  Jeremiah 12:14-17, Ezekiel 20:34-38, Isaiah 11:11-12       Unfortunately these events will come as a surprise to the secular world and to many Bible believers. Why should you be shocked and taken unawares by them?

Hello Keras...Of course the scriptures that are given are true, but I  don't see any of them directed towards why the saints that come back with Jesus could not be people, and not just angels.. Am I missing something?

Thank you- Gary

[Keras]

41 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

Hello Keras...Of course the scriptures that are given are true, but I  don't see any of them directed towards why the saints that come back with Jesus could not be people, and not just angels.. Am I missing something?

Thank you- Gary

The word translated as 'angels' in Jude, 'hagios' and can mean angels or faithful people. 

Referring to other scriptures about the Return of Jesus, we see they are angels, as Matthew 16:27, Revelation 19:13 plainly says. 

 In 1 Thessalonians 4:14, we see that Jesus will bring with Him the souls of Christians who have died.  Revelation 20:4-5 says exactly who those Christian souls are; the GT martyrs. ONLY those killed for the faith will be resurrected at Jesus Return. ALL the rest of the dead must wait until after the Millennium.  

[transmogrified]

On 1/27/2022 at 1:14 AM, Keras said:

On 1/26/2022 at 7:21 PM, transmogrified said:

"And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; salvation, and glory, and honor, and power unto the Lord our God..."

This a prophecy by John of a future event and he heard a great voice of much people in heaven...

How do you think they got there?

Thank you- Gary

They are the souls of the martyrs, who God allows to cry out at times.  As we are told in Revelation 6:8-11.

Are you saying only the souls of the believers who die during the tribulation go to heaven? 

[Keras]

5 hours ago, transmogrified said:

Are you saying only the souls of the believers who die during the tribulation go to heaven? 

I am saying the same as Jesus said; No one goes to heaven, except the One who came from heaven.  John 3:13

It is the souls of the killed martyrs that are kept under the Altar in heaven.  They are allowed to cry out at times. Revelation 6:9-11

Only the martyrs beheaded during the 42 month period of world control, will be brought back to earth by Jesus,  Revelation 20:4

 

[appy]

Regarding John 3 : 13

In context, Jesus himself who is God in the flesh is the only one who has the knowledge and ability to speak and teach regarding divine matters. Only he, could tell of heaven's eternal truths. For he is the only one to come down from heaven. The passage tells us that no human has gone to heaven and then returned to earth. When we humans pass away, we can not come back. Not even Paul, was able to describe or speak in humanly terms of what he had seen and heard in a vision of heaven.

[transmogrified]

17 hours ago, Keras said:

I am saying the same as Jesus said; No one goes to heaven, except the One who came from heaven.  John 3:13

Hello Keras-

   I have looked through all the translations on John 3:13 on Blue Letter Bible and as far as I have seen no one has translated it that 'No one goes to heaven...' it is always 'and no man hath ascended up to heaven...' 

In other words he is speaking past tense, not that no one will ever go to heaven...if it did mean no man would ever go to heaven, it would mean that those who were under the altar were not actually the people in heaven in Rev. 19, because if it truly meant 'No one goes to heaven,' then it would be impossible for anyone to be there.