Higher Ground

[Pilgrim7]

Iryssa,

I appreciate you response. Any one can agree or disagree. I have given my take on what I have seen and experienced. I have attended hundreds of churches and of course they all claim to be 'Bible Believing' churches. Yet they do not teach the whole Bible. Jesus said the 'man is to live by, not just believe, every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.' When you ask them why they don't teach all of what God says, they just give you their 'canned religous spin', their 'denominational talking points' and try to intimidate you with church authority.

I have no need to dispute with you regarding my use of the word 'predominatly'.

Denominationalism had scattered the flock. This is not what shepherds do, but what the wolves do. The Holy Spirit unifies, but only those who allow Him to lead them into all the truth. If all believe in sola scriptura and Spiritus Sanctus, then all would be united on scripture. The only cause of division is not letting the Holy Spirit to do his job. Our accountability is to God and not man. Our fellowship is to encourage each as the Scripture says,

1Cor 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

This is where the Holy Spirit comes in. This is how He unifies the children of God.

And yes there are many home churches that are run by man and not God. I didn't say that God was working through all home churches.

God bless and keep,

Dennis

Edited October 9, 2005 by Pilgrim7

[st. Worm]

"The devil has hijacked the denominational churches and even the non-denominational churches with a false gospel and a false Jesus."

This is a terribly false and dangerous statement friend. Indeed some of the old mainline denominations have fallen to false teaching but there are also excellent Presbyterian and Lutheran denominations that stand for the truth of the Bible. Your rejection of denominations for the socalled home church movement is sad. While the term denomination is not to be found in the Bible, the term doctrine certainly is and denominations are created out of desire for true doctrine. Going your own way as you advocate is not what Christians are called to do. Christ gave His church much authority that he did not give individual believers. There are also NT principles for and guidelines for leaders within the church. True authortity with regard to the preaching of the Word, administration of the Sacraments and church discipline lies within the church.

The Home church movement offers no real authority, no trained pastorate, no sacraments, no history and no future. In reality it is a group that has rejected Christ's church in favor of sinful rebellion with no real biblical accountibility. You claim the inside track to the Holy Spirit but fail to understand that is just your own sin and the devil talking to you as you creat your own theology of glory. Yes, the true church is weak and imperfect but your attempt to start your own is far worse.

[Pilgrim7]

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your perspective. You see following the Holy Spirit is not going your own way. That is what they said of John the Baptist, Jesus, the Apostles and others who followed the leading of the Lord. The Jewish church thought that they were God's favorite people, but God cast them off. Read the warning to the branches that were grafted in to Israel, how they can be broken off.

Most of the things you list are the very reason that God is calling His people out of the Chruches. Man has taken over. There is no room for God to work. Jesus is the head of the church, not man. He is capable of leading His people. He is putting together His church without 'spot or wrinkle'.

I choose to disagree with you whole heartedly. The People of God 'live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God', not man.

God Bless,

Dennis

[Guest yod]

Point#1. Stevie Wonder was singing about reincarnation and going up the karma chain.

Christ gave His church much authority that he did not give individual believers. There are also NT principles for and guidelines for leaders within the church. True authortity with regard to the preaching of the Word, administration of the Sacraments and church discipline lies within the church.

I am of the belief that the Lord is in the midst of His people wherever 2 or more are gathered. It can be a building called a church or it can be in a home group setting. I'm not against denominations per se' but this post has a few errors that need to be addressed.

1. Individual believers ARE the church.

2. Administrators and other officers within the church are not necessarily given authority over other believers. They are given the responsibility to serve the saints but that fact was lost once "The Church" became an institution of religious hierarchy.

3. Sacraments??? Those are only religious symbols....and practically without meaning in the ritual way they are done today. Far too many people are putting faith in these symbols as a means of "controlling" their relationship with God. (as if?)

4. Church "discipline" lies within accountability to the SAINTS, not church "authorities". Wherever there is one man "lording it over" people there will be problems whether it is a home church or the Pope.

If anyone desires to be in authority they will become the servant of all. Until a shepherd puts your well-being over his own, he is only a hireling who has absolutely no authority over any saint in this Kingdom.

[nebula]

Great points, yod - and very well spoken!

[Clio]

Beau,

I understand completely.

Where exactly are we?

Jason Upton has a song called ,"Fly". In that song he is singing from the standpoint of God. He is proclaiming to the Church that the Lord God has given us the Air. One particular verse goes like this;"You've been fighting that ground warfare for a very long time, sticking out your fists and fighting. I've given you the air so Flyyyy."

Brother I share your feeling of heaviness. Kind of melancholy? I believe it is the time in which we are living. So much to be distracted by. The Saint feels he has so much to lose. When really he can only gain.

"Ever think the Great Commission is just too great the cost? Ever play the fool"?" This is our Highway to heaven, Our American Dream."~ Jason Upton.

Where exactly are we?

Brother you have indeed said something of value today. Thank you for Loving Jesus.

Peace YBIC,

Dave

We stand for the King. I am a Daughter in the House of the King, sealed in the Blood Covenant with the shed blood of True Jesus.

I am so Homesick, I can hardly stand it.

Clio

[Clio]

"The devil has hijacked the denominational churches and even the non-denominational churches with a false gospel and a false Jesus."

This is a terribly false and dangerous statement friend. Indeed some of the old mainline denominations have fallen to false teaching but there are also excellent Presbyterian and Lutheran denominations that stand for the truth of the Bible. Your rejection of denominations for the socalled home church movement is sad. While the term denomination is not to be found in the Bible, the term doctrine certainly is and denominations are created out of desire for true doctrine. Going your own way as you advocate is not what Christians are called to do. Christ gave His church much authority that he did not give individual believers. There are also NT principles for and guidelines for leaders within the church. True authortity with regard to the preaching of the Word, administration of the Sacraments and church discipline lies within the church.

The Home church movement offers no real authority, no trained pastorate, no sacraments, no history and no future. In reality it is a group that has rejected Christ's church in favor of sinful rebellion with no real biblical accountibility. You claim the inside track to the Holy Spirit but fail to understand that is just your own sin and the devil talking to you as you creat your own theology of glory. Yes, the true church is weak and imperfect but your attempt to start your own is far worse.

You are very wrong. Almost all that you list has been brought into the church by man.

Please note, that the church age is ending and will have fully ended before Jesus is in the skies over the planet to take me home. We are told that only a remnant shall be saved of those left alive at the end. A remnant is a very small, teeny, tiny bit of selvedge left at the end of a bolt of cloth.

If you apply that to how many people will be saved out of those alive at the end, it will not be enough to even be called a denomination. It will be people scattered in hiding all over the globe because they refuse to follow a false worship system. The time of churches being on the side of Abba Father is ending.

Do not be one of those who refuses to "come out of her, My people".

We follow the direct lead of the Holy Spirit. Not man. We seek, study, and carefully exegete for ourselves. And Jesus Himself told us how to establish the truth of something... It's found in Matthew 18:16. Out of the mouths of two or three shall all things be established. Study, study, study, find the biblical basis and then wait for the witnesses.

Clio

[Pilgrim7]

God bless you Clio,

I see that you have the heavenly 'eyesalve' and that you hunger and thirst for 'righteousness'.

Praise God for you shall be filled. I am blessed with a blessed fellowship of real believers who are also homesick for heaven. They want to see Jesus more than anything on this earth. I don't think that we have long to wait now.

God bless you and keep you,

Dennis

[Clio]

God bless you Clio,

I see that you have the heavenly 'eyesalve' and that you hunger and thirst for 'righteousness'.

Praise God for you shall be filled. I am blessed with a blessed fellowship of real believers who are also homesick for heaven. They want to see Jesus more than anything on this earth. I don't think that we have long to wait now.

God bless you and keep you,

Dennis

Dennis -

I am here because Abba has led me here. Time is very. very short. There is no longer time for loss of focus. There is time enough left to do what must be done, but there is no longer time for a "Plan B". Now is the time to be stepping out about Abba Father's business, for it is HIS plans in jeopardy when I fail to do as He asks.

Never, ever will I allow it to be said that something I was tasked with caused His plan to have to change.

I have received my raiment and armor, the traditional gifts of a Blood Covenant, and I have purchased the eyesalve and the faith of Jesus, the fine gold. Time is short, shorter than many would like to think, much less believe.

I will stay as long as Abba wills it, but it will be no longer than 15 months when I get off the internet permanently. There is someone here Abba wants me to meet. We shall see.

Continue to be the watchman on the walls Dennis. A watchman who fails in his duty has the blood of the city on his hands, but if he does his duty, and the city scoffs or rejects his warning, then the blood be on theirs.

Clio

[Guest Nahum]

Point#1. Stevie Wonder was singing about reincarnation and going up the karma chain.

Christ gave His church much authority that he did not give individual believers. There are also NT principles for and guidelines for leaders within the church. True authortity with regard to the preaching of the Word, administration of the Sacraments and church discipline lies within the church.

I am of the belief that the Lord is in the midst of His people wherever 2 or more are gathered. It can be a building called a church or it can be in a home group setting. I'm not against denominations per se' but this post has a few errors that need to be addressed.

1. Individual believers ARE the church.

2. Administrators and other officers within the church are not necessarily given authority over other believers. They are given the responsibility to serve the saints but that fact was lost once "The Church" became an institution of religious hierarchy.

3. Sacraments??? Those are only religious symbols....and practically without meaning in the ritual way they are done today. Far too many people are putting faith in these symbols as a means of "controlling" their relationship with God. (as if?)

4. Church disciplines lies within accountability to the SAINTS, not church "authorities". Wherever there is one man "lording it over" people there will be problems whether it is a home church or the Pope.

If anyone desires to be in authority they will become the servant of all. Until a shepherd puts your well-being over his own, he is only a hireling who has absolutely no authority over any saint in this Kingdom.

well put, I'm definitely new. But, hey, this is very good doctrince in my opinion. (for what its worth).