WOMEN PASTORS

[Vickilynn]

You still haven't shown a single scripture in context that even supports your postion, and just ignore anything anyone says. You say focus on scriptures, well you mustnt be able to read very well, because you need to go back to the examples we've already given.

Shalom WSB,

Gee, for some reason I thought the fact that these same Scriptures have been posted over and over and over and over, you might have read them and I need not repeat them. BUT, here ya go, just cuz you asked so nicely!

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Here is a list of the other threads here that deal with the subject:

http://www.worthyboards.com/forums/index.p...l=women+pastors

http://www.worthyboards.com/forums/index.p...l=women+pastors

If you have access to Controversial, here is a list of more threads on the matter:

http://www.worthyboards.com/forums/index.p...l=women+pastors

http://www.worthyboards.com/forums/index.p...l=women+pastors

http://www.worthyboards.com/forums/index.p...l=women+pastors

http://www.worthyboards.com/forums/index.p...l=women+pastors

I'm sure there are at least a dozen others that I missed, but this should suffice. One thread has 378 responses to it, and goes quite in depth.

1 Timothy 3

Qualifications of Overseers

1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Qualifications of Deacons

8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, 9 holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. 10 But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. 11 Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Let a woman quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.

1 Timothy 2:11 NASB

This instruction by Paul was actually liberating to the women of Paul's time. It was not common for women to receive instruction. The fact that Paul allowed them to receive instruction was a new privelege, and went counter culture. This was a new thing Paul was introducing. So, we think of it as restrictive, but in Pauls' time it was liberating

In that light Paul's instructions make sense. He provides the new paradigm, but then issues a limit:

But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being quite deceived, fell into transgression.

1 Timothy 2:12-14 NASB

Even though Paul is creating a new paradigm, he realizes people may be tempted to take it too far. So he places limits on the new paradigm (notice the word "but"). This new freedom can not be used as permission to violate the creation order or the the results of the fall. So women's new freedom in the church is still conditioned by creation and the roles for which God created men and women.

This does not imply either one is more important than the other. It is just a difference in roles.

Talk about complete hypocrissy. You blind guide. Try reading your Bible for once, instead of relying on your husband or daddy to do it for you. Maybe if you actually thought for yourself about the meaning of scripture instead of parroting what someone else told you, you'd understand the Bible.

Hmmmm. Who busted your balloon?

Then you wonder why I have the position I take. You decieve your own self, and then berate other believers and find fault with them for their issues beyond your own comprehension.

No, I understand your position. I simply so not believe the Bible supports it. I'm sorry that upsets you, but you'll have to deal with that. Slinging mud just for the sake of arguing is worthless. I don't give a flip what you think of me personally. You don't know me. You want to attack me personally, whatever. You are accountable to G-d for it.

Untill you can actually address the passages I quoted in any way other than simply waving your hand and lying and discounting them, I consider this discussion over.

Sounds like a deal to me! See ya!!

[Vickilynn]

And why is it that you want to be decieved anyway?

Shalom WSB,

Oh, you're back????

I thought you said....

Untill you can actually address the passages I quoted in any way other than simply waving your hand and lying and discounting them, I consider this discussion over.

We made a deal!!!

[Guest Biblicist]

More men who believe that women can be Pastors, having authority over other men, yet refuse to believe the women, and men, who say it is not God's will for a woman to do so. If we agreed with you, you'd accept our teachings? That confuses me to no end. Which, of course, only tells me one thing...

1 Cor 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

[Vickilynn]

To Whysoblind, to my knowledge, there are no examples of female Pastors anywhere in scripture. There have been women that were used in leadership, but no Pastors. To prove the position of Vickilynn wrong, you will have to give us an actual example of a female Pastor.

As I stated earlier, most churches today consider the bishop and pastor to be one and the same. According to 1 Timothy 3:2 "A bishop must be blameless, the husband of one wife,..." No woman can meet this qualification. It is quite possible that women could have been used in many differen't areas of leadership, and still be disqualified from the office of bishop and deacon. I really don't see where those who dissagree with women pastors have ignored anything you said. The problem is, the things you mentioned don't prove you are right.

The only reason why I care about this topic at all is because we need to follow Biblical guidelines in the church. I have no doubt that women are capable of teaching the Bible, and are often times better managers than men. The issue is not one of personal likes or dislikes, or personal prejudices, but one of trying to follow the order God set up. There are many men who would not be qualified for this office as well. For instance, a bishop cannot be a novice. There are likely many men who are also good speakers and good managers, but they are new to the church, and would not be qualified for this office. Perhaps they are not given to hospitality. A person who is not sociable would not be qualified. We often times think we know better than God, but his ways are higher than ours. Any qualifications given are for a reason, and we would do good to heed to them.

Shalom Butero,

Excellent post, thank you.

As you point out, it is important to remove ourselves from the equation when we interpret the Scriptures. G-d's Word is His Word and we are to obey, whether doing so steps on our toes or not.

Jesus said to the Father in the Garden of Gethsemane and we should follow His perfect example:

"...nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done."

[refugepsa91]

Closed. Take a break folks.