What if the true nature of God will surprise us?

[Amigo42]

Religions around the world think that theirs is the true and right one including ours.  Some think that people of other faiths will not see heaven.  Even within the Christian religion some groups think that other groups must follow their specific way to make it to heaven.  So, what really is the truth?  The truth might surprise us and may not jive with what we have learned.

From a common sense perspective, God IS the creator of ALL people.  God loves all people.  Jesus's central message is that God is love.  I personally believe that God looks down upon ALL of his creation with compassion, kindness, and love.  He looks upon us with pity because he sees all of the unnecessary divisions and misconceptions.  What if religion in general is just a tool to help us connect to God regardless of religion.  A hindu truly believes in multiple gods, but regardless does the one True God hear their cries though they don't know him.  Some people have no faith at all, but they may be more virtuous than the most ardent believer.  So, how does God judge them?  What if all righteous souls return to heaven and to God who made them?  What if our physical bodies are akin to avatars which are here to experience this earthly existence.  Our true home is with God not this world.  Let's look at a few common sense perspectives.  Sometimes tradition and religion can overwhelm the God-given common sense that he gave to all of us.

 

1.All humans are born disadvantaged and partially without guidance and blinded.  Why is that?  It is akin to being in a football game and already being down two touchdowns before you hit the field.  That's how disadvantaged we are from birth.  If you're fortunate to be born in a Christian country, you can learn about the love of Christ.  What if you're not?  Is one automatically sentenced to eternal damnation because they happened to be born in a hindu or muslim family?  Does that make sense?  How about people who grew up in jungles and have never even seen a missionary much less even heard of Christianity or any other religion for that matter?

 

2.Humans are innate born into a sinful world which tempts them toward sin.  Are they to be punished for being born on earth although all humans have an innate knowledge of right and wrong.

 

3.God doesn't directly communicate with anyone in most cases.  How then can people be punished when they have disbelief and doubt.  Essentially, this world is a test case and an experiment of sorts where God does speak to us but in subtle ways.  He speaks daily.  Don't get me wrong, but the ways are subtle and can be easily missed as coincidences or regular daily life circumstances.  

 

4.People who have had near death experiences (NDEs) all come back with a higher belief in the supernatural, and they all say that the Creator is love.  He is love to the extent that they cannot even compare it to love on this earth.  They all describe a God of love that matches the God that Jesus described.  

 

Food for thought.  What do you all think?

[JohnD]

One consistency in all who encounter(ed) God:

Surprise.

God is not what we imagine / picture / or even know exactly.

God is Spirit.

Define spirit. Even our spirit or that of angels.

We can describe what it does (life, life energy, etc).

But what it is... not so much.

Now amplify that by a universe of greatness over a single quantum element to apply to the Almighty.

PWWWWGGGGHHHHH ← the explosion sound

Mind blowing!

Edited May 24, 2022 by JohnD

[Who me]

1 hour ago, Amigo42 said:

So, how does God judge them?

How about comparing common religous ideas with those of Christianity?

 

Christianity teaches that man cannot please God by its efforts.

All other beliefs say that man has to reach up to God by its own efforts.

 

The contrast is stark God reaching out to man against man trying to reach God.

 

How does God judge?

 

With perfect justice and mercy.

[ayin jade]

John 3

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

The only way is through Jesus. A hindu who does not believe in Jesus is lost in his sins and unsaved. 

[B-B]

1 minute ago, ayin jade said:

The only way is through Jesus.

100%

[Amigo42]

1 minute ago, ayin jade said:

 

The only way is through Jesus. A hindu who does not believe in Jesus is lost in his sins and unsaved. 

 

Hmm.  How can someone be punished for something they didn't know and didn't even realize?  Think beyond.  What if Jesus died for all souls to be saved regardless of whether they even realize or not.  God's ways are also reflected in nature.  In nature, God shines down the warmth of the sun on all people regardless of whether they believe in a Creator who made the sun.  It doesn't matter.  He still shines on them.  Food for thought.

[Jayne]

I have your answer.  I hope you will listen.

You are treading on the border of universalism - which is a religion all to itself, but a false one.

Let me give you some relief with my answer.  I DON'T know it all, but I have studied on your question before.

Yes, God is compassionate, and the Bible says that it is his will that NONE should perish.  2 Peter 3:9. God IS love. 1 John 4:7-8. And yet God has a wrath that MUST be satisfied and was ONLY satisfied in Christ Jesus. John 3:36.  It's his will that none should perish, yet people are going to perish nonetheless.  Why?  Because, without Christ, no one comes to the Father.  John 14:6.

So, what about those who haven't got a Bible or haven't heard a pastor or missionary?  I'll tell you this - you and I are not God and folks THINK they can deal with this issue - but it always seems to be based on their emotions and opinions.  We think, as you have stated, that "people are born Hindus and Muslims are automatically doomed".  That's not true.  No truer than the lie that Americans having “leg up”.  That's your opinion.  So let me bring you some FACTS that will bring relief.  Facts from the Bible and facts from today.

We know that the Bible says that the scriptures, preaching, and teaching is VITAL!  But we also know that God can and will save people who do not have those things.  How does that happen?  Here’s how.

• Rahab, in the Old Testament, was a prostitute.  She and her people of Jericho didn’t have Old Testament scriptures, didn’t have a pastor, missionary, or anything of God.  All they had was a RUMOR, a RUMOR of a distant “god” that was working for his people.  ALL of the people of her town, Jericho, believed this was true.  She was the ONLY one who decided, before the Jews even came to her town, to put her faith and trust in God.  The rest of the people made a decision also! They also believe that God was real!  People many times ignore that in this story.  They rejected God and hid from God. So says the Bible. Just like Adam and Eve. But Rahab submitted to God in faith.  She became King David’s great-great-grandmother.

 

• The people of Nineveh in the Old Testament were horrible people.  In other books of the Bible than Jonah, we know that they would skin their enemies alive.  They would put fish hooks in the mouths of their enemies and line them up, tying the fish hooks together, and march them back to their Nineveh.  Now what do you think happened when just ONE person fell down?  These people did not know God – they had their own gods.  Yet, when Jonah, the prophet who didn’t even want to be there, came by and said ONE thing.  “Forty days and you are going DOWN!”  All it took was that ONE thing and they repented from the king down to the lowest servant.  The king, ignorant of how things worked, told the people to put sack cloth and ashes [signs of repentance] even on the animals.  That’s how sincere he was.  They had no Bible, no preacher, no missionary.

 

• In the New Testament, the Philippian jailer ONLY saw a huge earthquake and prisoners who could have escaped, but didn’t.  He knew only God could have been involved in this and sought how to be saved and was saved.

 

• In the 1950’s, a missionary was in Japan. He spoke Japanese. He was witnessing to people who had lost all hope after WWII.  Like Corrie Ten Boom did in Germany. He carried a cross with him so that he could explain the suffering of Christ for our sins.  He was moved to travel to the jungles and look for people who had no contact with the world.  He came upon a man who did not know the war was over and was hiding – all alone – for years.  The missionary witnessed to him about Jesus Christ.  The jungle man told him, “Oh, THAT’s his name!” God had already been dealing with this man.  How?  I don't know.

 

• In Muslim countries – right now! – God is leading people who do not know ANYTHING about him – never having even heard the name “Jesus” – to salvation.  I could tell you story after story.  I’ll just tell you one.  God is sending dreams to these people, dreams of a man called “Jesus”.  They are seeking out who he is.  This is the truth.  I’ve read about this happening and other wonderful, miraculous things.  It's incredible what God is doing.

 

• One last proof.  In Romania, where people are taught from childhood in their schools that God is not real and Christianity is not real, there was a man.  He lived in a house with a flat roof as did everyone else.  Storks were notorious for building nests on top of the houses and it was stinky.  But people left them there as they believed it was “good luck”.  One day, he had enough of the stink.  He went to his roof and began to tear the nest apart.  Neighbors begged him to leave it there as he would "lose his luck".  Birds of all sizes and sort make their nests of whatever is handy.  He found a small piece of paper that was a half sheet from a page of the Bible – a half sheet from the book of Romans.  He read it.  He believed it.  He shouted, “they taught me that you didn’t exist – that you weren’t REAL!  I see that you are!”  He was saved.

 

People who HAVE Bibles, pastors, Bible teachers, and missionaries need to HEED them.  People who do not have these things need to HEED God when he speaks to them in WHATEVER WAY he chooses to lead them and teach them.  Once God speaks, in whatever way he deems fit - you are responsible for it.

I don’t have all the answers.  But God does.  We need to trust him on this.

AND we need to evangelize!  We need to tell people about Christ, send missionaries, and most of all PRAY, PRAY, PRAY for people who have never heard.

I trust God to bring knowledge of him in whatever way he chooses.

But just like those people in Jericho, once they KNOW – even just an inkling – they are responsible for receiving the truth.

There is no universalism.  God brings to us his truth about Christ how and when he chooses.  Let’s trust him and obey him.

 

 

 

 

[missmuffet]

Who is the one true God?

https://www.gotquestions.org

ANSWER

This is a profoundly important question. Because we live in a world with many competing truth claims—and many so-called gods—the identity of the one true God matters. The one true God is distinguished from all the false gods that have been foisted upon mankind by evil spirits and deluded men. Gods that are fashioned by the imaginations and hands of men are absolutely worthless (Isaiah 44:9–10), but the one true God is full of glory, grace, and truth (John 1:14).
 

The Bible says that the one true God is the sovereign, self-existent Creator of the universe (Isaiah 42:5; Ephesians 1:11). He is spirit (John 4:24), He is eternal (Psalm 90:2), and He is personal (Deuteronomy 34:10). The one true God possesses all knowledge (Isaiah 46:10) and all power (Matthew 19:26), is present in all places (Psalm 139:7–10), and is unchanging (James 1:17). There are many false gods—Hinduism alone supposedly recognizes as many as 330 million gods—but none of them possess the attributes of the one true God.

The Bible says that God is just (Acts 17:31), loving (Ephesians 2:4–5), truthful (Numbers 23:19), and holy (Isaiah 6:3). God shows compassion (2 Corinthians 1:3), mercy (Romans 9:15), and grace (Romans 5:17). God judges sin (Psalm 5:5), but He also offers forgiveness (Psalm 130:4). Any god that is not just, loving, truthful, holy, compassionate, merciful, gracious, and forgiving is not the one true God.

The one true God exists in tri-unity. The Bible speaks of three divine Persons who share the same nature and essence in one God. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three in one (Matthew 3:16–17; 28:19). This characteristic of the one true God separates Him from all other gods of monotheistic religions: Islam, for example, teaches one god (Allah), but it is a false god, since Allah is not triune. Any concept of God that excludes Jesus Christ is faulty. As Scripture says, “No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also” (1 John 2:23).

The one true God wants to be known. He has revealed His power and glory in creation (Romans 1:20). He revealed Himself to Abram in Mesopotamia, calling him to a new life of faith and making of him a new nation (Genesis 12:1–3). The one true God later identified Himself as the “the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob” (Exodus 3:6) and revealed Himself to Moses in Midian (verses 1–5). Using Moses, the one true God began to reveal Himself more clearly through His written Word, the Bible. And, finally, the one true God has given us the ultimate revelation of Himself in the Lord Jesus: “In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son” (Hebrews 1:1–2). Jesus is “the exact representation of [God’s] being” (verse 3). Jesus is the Word of God made flesh who “made his dwelling among us” (John 1:14).

We all have a choice of whom to worship. Joshua told the Israelites it was time for them to choose the one true God over the gods of the Amorites (Joshua 24:15). Elijah told the people on top of Mt. Carmel that they could no longer stay ambivalent concerning God: “How long will you waver between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him” (1 Kings 18:21). Today, people worship some of the same pagan gods mentioned in the Old Testament; or they worship more recent false gods such as Mami Wata and Cernunnos; or they worship themselves. But the worship of false deities leads only to death in the end. “This is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent” (John 17:3). May we be like Ruth, who chose the one true God over the idols of Moab (Ruth 1:16).

Edited May 24, 2022 by missmuffet

[B-B]

10 minutes ago, Jayne said:

I have your answer.  I hope you will listen.

You are treading on the border of universalism - which is a religion all to itself, but a false one.

Let me give you some relief with my answer.  I DON'T know it all, but I have studied on your question before.

Yes, God is compassionate, and the Bible says that it is his will that NONE should perish.  2 Peter 3:9. God IS love. 1 John 4:7-8. And yet God has a wrath that MUST be satisfied and was ONLY satisfied in Christ Jesus. John 3:36.  It's his will that none should perish, yet people are going to perish nonetheless.  Why?  Because, without Christ, no one comes to the Father.  John 14:6.

So, what about those who haven't got a Bible or haven't heard a pastor or missionary?  I'll tell you this - you and I are not God and folks THINK they can deal with this issue - but it always seems to be based on their emotions and opinions.  We think, as you have stated, that "people are born Hindus and Muslims are automatically doomed".  That's not true.  No truer than the lie that Americans having “leg up”.  That's your opinion.  So let me bring you some FACTS that will bring relief.  Facts from the Bible and facts from today.

We know that the Bible says that the scriptures, preaching, and teaching is VITAL!  But we also know that God can and will save people who do not have those things.  How does that happen?  Here’s how.

• Rahab, in the Old Testament, was a prostitute.  She and her people of Jericho didn’t have Old Testament scriptures, didn’t have a pastor, missionary, or anything of God.  All they had was a RUMOR, a RUMOR of a distant “god” that was working for his people.  ALL of the people of her town, Jericho, believed this was true.  She was the ONLY one who decided, before the Jews even came to her town, to put her faith and trust in God.  The rest of the people made a decision also! They also believe that God was real!  People many times ignore that in this story.  They rejected God and hid from God. So says the Bible. Just like Adam and Eve. But Rahab submitted to God in faith.  She became King David’s great-great-grandmother.

 

• The people of Nineveh in the Old Testament were horrible people.  In other books of the Bible than Jonah, we know that they would skin their enemies alive.  They would put fish hooks in the mouths of their enemies and line them up, tying the fish hooks together, and march them back to their Nineveh.  Now what do you think happened when just ONE person fell down?  These people did not know God – they had their own gods.  Yet, when Jonah, the prophet who didn’t even want to be there, came by and said ONE thing.  “Forty days and you are going DOWN!”  All it took was that ONE thing and they repented from the king down to the lowest servant.  The king, ignorant of how things worked, told the people to put sack cloth and ashes [signs of repentance] even on the animals.  That’s how sincere he was.  They had no Bible, no preacher, no missionary.

 

• In the New Testament, the Philippian jailer ONLY saw a huge earthquake and prisoners who could have escaped, but didn’t.  He knew only God could have been involved in this and sought how to be saved and was saved.

 

• In the 1950’s, a missionary was in Japan. He spoke Japanese. He was witnessing to people who had lost all hope after WWII.  Like Corrie Ten Boom did in Germany. He carried a cross with him so that he could explain the suffering of Christ for our sins.  He was moved to travel to the jungles and look for people who had no contact with the world.  He came upon a man who did not know the war was over and was hiding – all alone – for years.  The missionary witnessed to him about Jesus Christ.  The jungle man told him, “Oh, THAT’s his name!” God had already been dealing with this man.  How?  I don't know.

 

• In Muslim countries – right now! – God is leading people who do not know ANYTHING about him – never having even heard the name “Jesus” – to salvation.  I could tell you story after story.  I’ll just tell you one.  God is sending dreams to these people, dreams of a man called “Jesus”.  They are seeking out who he is.  This is the truth.  I’ve read about this happening and other wonderful, miraculous things.  It's incredible what God is doing.

 

• One last proof.  In Romania, where people are taught from childhood in their schools that God is not real and Christianity is not real, there was a man.  He lived in a house with a flat roof as did everyone else.  Storks were notorious for building nests on top of the houses and it was stinky.  But people left them there as they believed it was “good luck”.  One day, he had enough of the stink.  He went to his roof and began to tear the nest apart.  Neighbors begged him to leave it there as he would "lose his luck".  Birds of all sizes and sort make their nests of whatever is handy.  He found a small piece of paper that was a half sheet from a page of the Bible – a half sheet from the book of Romans.  He read it.  He believed it.  He shouted, “they taught me that you didn’t exist – that you weren’t REAL!  I see that you are!”  He was saved.

 

People who HAVE Bibles, pastors, Bible teachers, and missionaries need to HEED them.  People who do not have these things need to HEED God when he speaks to them in WHATEVER WAY he chooses to lead them and teach them.  Once God speaks, in whatever way he deems fit - you are responsible for it.

I don’t have all the answers.  But God does.  We need to trust him on this.

AND we need to evangelize!  We need to tell people about Christ, send missionaries, and most of all PRAY, PRAY, PRAY for people who have never heard.

I trust God to bring knowledge of him in whatever way he chooses.

But just like those people in Jericho, once they KNOW – even just an inkling – they are responsible for receiving the truth.

There is no universalism.  God brings to us his truth about Christ how and when he chooses.  Let’s trust him and obey him.

 

 

 

 

excellent read. 

[Amigo42]

21 minutes ago, Jayne said:

I have your answer.  I hope you will listen.

You are treading on the border of universalism - which is a religion all to itself, but a false one.

Let me give you some relief with my answer.  I DON'T know it all, but I have studied on your question before.

Yes, God is compassionate, and the Bible says that it is his will that NONE should perish.  2 Peter 3:9. God IS love. 1 John 4:7-8. And yet God has a wrath that MUST be satisfied and was ONLY satisfied in Christ Jesus. John 3:36.  It's his will that none should perish, yet people are going to perish nonetheless.  Why?  Because, without Christ, no one comes to the Father.  John 14:6.

So, what about those who haven't got a Bible or haven't heard a pastor or missionary?  I'll tell you this - you and I are not God and folks THINK they can deal with this issue - but it always seems to be based on their emotions and opinions.  We think, as you have stated, that "people are born Hindus and Muslims are automatically doomed".  That's not true.  No truer than the lie that Americans having “leg up”.  That's your opinion.  So let me bring you some FACTS that will bring relief.  Facts from the Bible and facts from today.

We know that the Bible says that the scriptures, preaching, and teaching is VITAL!  But we also know that God can and will save people who do not have those things.  How does that happen?  Here’s how.

• Rahab, in the Old Testament, was a prostitute.  She and her people of Jericho didn’t have Old Testament scriptures, didn’t have a pastor, missionary, or anything of God.  All they had was a RUMOR, a RUMOR of a distant “god” that was working for his people.  ALL of the people of her town, Jericho, believed this was true.  She was the ONLY one who decided, before the Jews even came to her town, to put her faith and trust in God.  The rest of the people made a decision also! They also believe that God was real!  People many times ignore that in this story.  They rejected God and hid from God. So says the Bible. Just like Adam and Eve. But Rahab submitted to God in faith.  She became King David’s great-great-grandmother.

 

• The people of Nineveh in the Old Testament were horrible people.  In other books of the Bible than Jonah, we know that they would skin their enemies alive.  They would put fish hooks in the mouths of their enemies and line them up, tying the fish hooks together, and march them back to their Nineveh.  Now what do you think happened when just ONE person fell down?  These people did not know God – they had their own gods.  Yet, when Jonah, the prophet who didn’t even want to be there, came by and said ONE thing.  “Forty days and you are going DOWN!”  All it took was that ONE thing and they repented from the king down to the lowest servant.  The king, ignorant of how things worked, told the people to put sack cloth and ashes [signs of repentance] even on the animals.  That’s how sincere he was.  They had no Bible, no preacher, no missionary.

 

• In the New Testament, the Philippian jailer ONLY saw a huge earthquake and prisoners who could have escaped, but didn’t.  He knew only God could have been involved in this and sought how to be saved and was saved.

 

• In the 1950’s, a missionary was in Japan. He spoke Japanese. He was witnessing to people who had lost all hope after WWII.  Like Corrie Ten Boom did in Germany. He carried a cross with him so that he could explain the suffering of Christ for our sins.  He was moved to travel to the jungles and look for people who had no contact with the world.  He came upon a man who did not know the war was over and was hiding – all alone – for years.  The missionary witnessed to him about Jesus Christ.  The jungle man told him, “Oh, THAT’s his name!” God had already been dealing with this man.  How?  I don't know.

 

• In Muslim countries – right now! – God is leading people who do not know ANYTHING about him – never having even heard the name “Jesus” – to salvation.  I could tell you story after story.  I’ll just tell you one.  God is sending dreams to these people, dreams of a man called “Jesus”.  They are seeking out who he is.  This is the truth.  I’ve read about this happening and other wonderful, miraculous things.  It's incredible what God is doing.

 

• One last proof.  In Romania, where people are taught from childhood in their schools that God is not real and Christianity is not real, there was a man.  He lived in a house with a flat roof as did everyone else.  Storks were notorious for building nests on top of the houses and it was stinky.  But people left them there as they believed it was “good luck”.  One day, he had enough of the stink.  He went to his roof and began to tear the nest apart.  Neighbors begged him to leave it there as he would "lose his luck".  Birds of all sizes and sort make their nests of whatever is handy.  He found a small piece of paper that was a half sheet from a page of the Bible – a half sheet from the book of Romans.  He read it.  He believed it.  He shouted, “they taught me that you didn’t exist – that you weren’t REAL!  I see that you are!”  He was saved.

 

People who HAVE Bibles, pastors, Bible teachers, and missionaries need to HEED them.  People who do not have these things need to HEED God when he speaks to them in WHATEVER WAY he chooses to lead them and teach them.  Once God speaks, in whatever way he deems fit - you are responsible for it.

I don’t have all the answers.  But God does.  We need to trust him on this.

AND we need to evangelize!  We need to tell people about Christ, send missionaries, and most of all PRAY, PRAY, PRAY for people who have never heard.

I trust God to bring knowledge of him in whatever way he chooses.

But just like those people in Jericho, once they KNOW – even just an inkling – they are responsible for receiving the truth.

There is no universalism.  God brings to us his truth about Christ how and when he chooses.  Let’s trust him and obey him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You make some great points, and indeed God has done and continues to do some miraculous things in the world.  Muslims in the middle east are seeing visions and Jesus of Christ on an amazing level.  

You're also right that this does appear to be universalism.  I suppose my current understanding is similar to universalism although being a conservative Christian I just don't like that word. lol.  However, I came to a newer level of spiritual understanding after weeks of fasting for more knowledge from God.  After that higher level knowledge just seem to pour in, though, as you've admitted, yourself, I also don't have all the answers.  I think we'll never know it all on this plane, but on that day when our souls leave our bodies, I think that we'll be amazed at how much we got wrong.  We made God more judgmental and authoritarian than he really is.  Life here is an experience like a school to gain higher knowledge.  However, this earth is just a blip on the radar of eternity.  The Bible says that man judges on the outward appearance but God judges the heart.