Did God create evil? (A look at Isaiah 45:7)

[BeyondET]

5 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

True, but you have to give those guys credit back in 1611 considering what they had to work with, they did a pretty good job! Imagine working with scraps of paper, dim light, quill and ink, no computers - but then again it was not a whole new work, they had other great Bibles to draw from prior to their work. We are very blessed to have so much today!

Indeed I actually like the Bible they did a really good job its not perfect none are but i go to it most often.

Another one I like is the New Heart English Bible.

And a oldie but goodie is the James Murdock English translation of the peshitta 1865. I really like his use of words like old English proper words

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by BeyondET

[kwikphilly]

2 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

That made me thing is terms of properties of things. In other words, how much does evil weight, how much space does it occupy? What color is it? If I put in in may fuel tank how far will it take my car? Even light has properties like speed, frequency, and the ability to do work (energy).

I think regarding God creating evil, I'll just quote Got Questions:

Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” How does Isaiah 45:7 agree with the view that God did not create evil? There are two key facts that need to be considered. (1) The word translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery.” Notice how the other major English Bible translations render the word: “disaster” (NIV, HCSB), “calamity” (NKJV, NAS, ESV), and “woe” (NRSV). The Hebrew word can refer to moral evil, and often does have this meaning in the Hebrew Scriptures. However, due to the diversity of possible definitions, it is unwise to assume that “I create evil” in Isaiah 45:7 refers to God bringing moral evil into existence.

(2) The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than “bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishi,g Israel for disobedience. God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God brings “evil” and “disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him.

Blessings Omega

You have said it beautifully,well done!

And still,again all those " actions" are not " Created by God,God Does not MAKE disaster, calamity or affliction nor Does He MAKE it happen However,God Does ALLOW these  as a result of mans disobedience( in context of the 45th Chapter Isaiah)

Yes,as you said the common theme throughout Scripture  is constant,Blessings or the Consequence of sin & rebellion 

This is very much the same as when it is said" God Sends people to hell"... He is the Judge,He is Just,He is Vindicator yet it is people that send themselves to hell

Am I rambling? Making sense?I'm done

Praise Jesus -some lovely comments!

In His Love Kwik

[debrakay]

2 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” How does Isaiah 45:7 agree with the view that God did not create evil? There are two key facts that need to be considered. (1) The word translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery.” Notice how the other major English Bible translations render the word: “disaster” (NIV, HCSB), “calamity” (NKJV, NAS, ESV), and “woe” (NRSV). The Hebrew word can refer to moral evil, and often does have this meaning in the Hebrew Scriptures. However, due to the diversity of possible definitions, it is unwise to assume that “I create evil” in Isaiah 45:7 refers to God bringing moral evil into existence.

Thank you for this "O-man" as that is exactly where my thoughts were headed after I looked up the Hebrew word in the concordance and after doing a version comparison.  It seems to me that when God was speaking to Isaiah in these verses he was making comparisons.  Light and darkness.  Peace and calamity.  The translators could have use good and evil but they used peace and evil.  Shalom and raraah.  My spirit says to me that the Father was explaining to Isaiah that he has a purpose for everything under the sun and that as his children we are to seek and find the balance and the goodness of all that he has created.  We know he never promised us a rose garden.....for now. We get that perfect garden later when we are home with him!    

[BeyondET]

On 6/25/2022 at 8:02 PM, Jacob Ben Avraham said:

ISAIAH 45:7 

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD (YHVH) do all these things."

This is a strange verse that might capture the attention of many. I am sure we have heard it said that "Evil comes from the Devil" We all seem to connect evil to Satan and his demonic entities. Yet, this verse clearly states that YHVH created evil. Case closed. But we must ask ourselves "why?"

Why did a loving, perfect, and Holy God create evil? So, as we attempt to answer this question. Let's look at the words with a fine-tooth comb.

"Light and darkness" "peace and evil" "form, make, create" How can we relate these words to our world today? in the world in which we live? Here we see opposites, "light vs darkness" "peace vs evil". We can also see these in similarities; "light and peace" and "Darkness and evil" Two go together and two are different. But they are ALL made by Adonai. The word used for "create" in Hebrew is "Bara" which means "to create or bring into being for a specific purpose." It is not just to create or make and throw out there into existence, sit back and see what happens.

All things were made for a purpose. We see in Genesis Chapter 1 that there was darkness, yet out of the darkness came light. "Light" is also referred to as Yeshua himself. One thought is that when YHVH "spoke" into existence all that He created, the words that He spoke emanated at such a high frequency that the sound waves were heated to such a degree that they glowed with "light" But this is just an idea. No one was around back then to observe creation.

Yet, before Genesis 1, there was just eternity past, and, nothingness? the blackness of empty space? Yet since Elohim existed eternally from eternity past, then, there can not be "nothingness" rather "somethingness" (wow, is that really a word?) Yes, (my word) Elohim existed so there was no such thing as "nothingness" yet "darkness?' did it exist before Genesis 1?

Can darkness associate itself with evil? There are two entities of "darkness" one is "physical" darkness (if one can call it that) and the other "spiritual darkness". In order to sleep well, we need a "dark" room, to close our eyes and rest. Photographers many years ago developed film in a "dark" room. When I was in high school, I took a course in photography and Mr. Tovar, my photography teacher taught us how to go into a pitch-black closet and unroll the film in our camera into a black box with a hole in the top, then pour in the chemicals to develop the negatives. "Darkness" was needed to develop the film. There are animals that only come out during the darkness of night to feed, and flowers close up to rest during the night.

So, that kind of darkness is good, so "peace" and "relaxation" can come in the "darkness" to allow us to sleep and rest. But spiritual darkness relates to evil. Not knowing the Torah (Bible) exposes us to evil. What we don't know CAN hurt us. Rejection of God's gift of Salvation brings darkness into our lives and makes us slaves to the "evil" master; HaSatan.

Knowing what spiritual darkness is can lead us to the "light" of the gospel. rejecting "evil" and welcoming "Shalom" (peace) through Yeshua.
Recognizing a poisonous scorpion (darkness, evil) from a non-poisonous one can bring one "peace" in that we know what to look for and avoid. Well, all scorpions sting, but some are like a bee or wasp sting, and others, well... you'd better go see a doctor quickly! (the difference is in the claw and stinger)

When we read and obey God's Commandments, we get "peace" in our lives, yet the "negative" commandments warn us against "evil" and knowing what "evil" can do against us, and thus avoiding the same, brings us "peace". In a dark room, where the is pitch-blackness, if you stike a match, that light from the match however small that flame is, chases away the darkness, now, as our eyes adjust, we can see around us. So is the Word of God, like a flame from a match, that will reveal everything around us and the spiritual darkness will flee. (mind you, don't blow out the flame)

So, back to the million-dollar question; Why did God create evil and peace together? Perhaps the answer is in the creation of mankind. Mankind was given a choice to obey or disobey. God wanted man and woman to love and obey Him out of free will and choice. The same is for us today. If there had been no such thing as "evil" then, we would have no choice BUT to obey and love, there would be no testing our love, we would be like robots or machines that run because they are programmed to run. We are more than machines, we are His living creations, created with a choice to "walk in the light and have peace" rather than "succumb to the darkness and be enveloped in evil".

Would we also dare say that God created evil, to punish evil doers? Whatever a man sows, that he must also reap. We can see that in our everyday lives. Even Yeshua said to Peter; "He who lives by the sword will die by the sword." So, evil might have been created for that reason also.

Either way, the choice is ours.

Ben Avraham

The light gives way to darkness, yet the light will soon return       (Key Largo, FL) 

It doesn't seem logical to say God created evil for a reason. More like a good turned evil on its own. 

Though the global flood wasn't a natural event nor allowed, but that was judgenent call which produced calamity.

 I think kjv could of used a different word.

I wonder why they used that english word instead of the numerous other choices they could of used.

Edited July 7, 2022 by BeyondET

[kwikphilly]

8 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

True, but you have to give those guys credit back in 1611 considering what they had to work with, they did a pretty good job! Imagine working with scraps of paper, dim light, quill and ink, no computers - but then again it was not a whole new work, they had other great Bibles to draw from prior to their work. We are very blessed to have so much today!

To really appreciate that, people should check out:

 

Thank you for posting this.....

[missmuffet]

Did God create evil?

https://www.gotquestions.org

ANSWER

At first it might seem that if God created all things, then evil must have been created by God. However, evil is not a “thing” like a rock or electricity. You cannot have a jar of evil. Evil has no existence of its own; it is really the absence of good. For example, holes are real but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole, but it cannot be separated from the dirt. So when God created, it is true that all He created was good. One of the good things God made was creatures who had the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So, God allowed these free angels and humans to choose good or reject good (evil). When a bad relationship exists between two good things we call that evil, but it does not become a “thing” that required God to create it.
 

 

 

Perhaps a further illustration will help. If a person is asked, “Does cold exist?” the answer would likely be “yes.” However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist; it is the absence of light. Evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.

 

God did not create evil, but He does allow evil. If God had not allowed for the possibility of evil, both mankind and angels would be serving God out of obligation, not choice. He did not want “robots” that simply did what He wanted them to do because of their “programming.” God allowed for the possibility of evil so that we could genuinely have a free will and choose whether or not we wanted to serve Him.

 

As finite human beings, we can never fully understand an infinite God (Romans 11:33-34). Sometimes we think we understand why God is doing something, only to find out later that it was for a different purpose than we originally thought. God looks at things from a holy, eternal perspective. We look at things from a sinful, earthly, and temporal perspective. Why did God put man on earth knowing that Adam and Eve would sin and therefore bring evil, death, and suffering on all mankind? Why didn’t He just create us all and leave us in heaven where we would be perfect and without suffering? These questions cannot be adequately answered this side of eternity. What we can know is whatever God does is holy and perfect and ultimately will glorify Him. God allowed for the possibility of evil in order to give us a true choice in regards to whether we worship Him. God did not create evil, but He allowed it. If He had not allowed evil, we would be worshiping Him out of obligation, not by a choice of our own will.

Edited July 8, 2022 by missmuffet

[BeyondET]

29 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Did God create evil?

https://www.gotquestions.org

ANSWER

At first it might seem that if God created all things, then evil must have been created by God. However, evil is not a “thing” like a rock or electricity. You cannot have a jar of evil. Evil has no existence of its own; it is really the absence of good. For example, holes are real but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole, but it cannot be separated from the dirt. So when God created, it is true that all He created was good. One of the good things God made was creatures who had the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So, God allowed these free angels and humans to choose good or reject good (evil). When a bad relationship exists between two good things we call that evil, but it does not become a “thing” that required God to create it.
 

 

 

Perhaps a further illustration will help. If a person is asked, “Does cold exist?” the answer would likely be “yes.” However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist; it is the absence of light. Evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.

 

God did not create evil, but He does allow evil. If God had not allowed for the possibility of evil, both mankind and angels would be serving God out of obligation, not choice. He did not want “robots” that simply did what He wanted them to do because of their “programming.” God allowed for the possibility of evil so that we could genuinely have a free will and choose whether or not we wanted to serve Him.

 

As finite human beings, we can never fully understand an infinite God (Romans 11:33-34). Sometimes we think we understand why God is doing something, only to find out later that it was for a different purpose than we originally thought. God looks at things from a holy, eternal perspective. We look at things from a sinful, earthly, and temporal perspective. Why did God put man on earth knowing that Adam and Eve would sin and therefore bring evil, death, and suffering on all mankind? Why didn’t He just create us all and leave us in heaven where we would be perfect and without suffering? These questions cannot be adequately answered this side of eternity. What we can know is whatever God does is holy and perfect and ultimately will glorify Him. God allowed for the possibility of evil in order to give us a true choice in regards to whether we worship Him. God did not create evil, but He allowed it. If He had not allowed evil, we would be worshiping Him out of obligation, not by a choice of our own will.

I agree didn't create evil.

Only a handful of translations use it though kjv being one and why was that.

Is it even translated properly 

Or a verse that was added,

 

[BeyondET]

Seems its the Hebrew word Ra 

kjv just translated as is, but it's meaning calamity,

No doubt Great white sharks can be pure killers eat you alive lol, 

Edited July 8, 2022 by BeyondET

[kwikphilly]

3 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Seems its the Hebrew word Ra 

kjv just translated as is, but it's meaning calamity,

No doubt Great white sharks can be pure killers eat you alive lol, 

Blessings Beyond

   What do you mean with the shark statement,I'm not seeing the comparison you must have in mind.....do you mind spelling it out for me?                                                                              In His Love,Kwik

[Cntrysner]

God created man of flesh knowing that man could not continually resist his flesh. Adam could not refuse Eve's temptation because they were one flesh. Sin passed to all mankind through the flesh of Adam.

Rom 8:3  For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

God created us in the flesh with the knowledge that man could not resist evil. 

Man does not have the freewill to resist sin.

We must have the righteousness of God through the Spirit of Christ Jesus who can take away sin.

1Jn 3:5  And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Mankind requires an operation of God to circumcise us from our flesh by the circumcision of Christ.

Col 2:11  In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: