The Eternal Kingdom Zechariah 14:8 New Jerusalem

[R. Hartono]

16 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

What has your comment and opinion to do with the topic of Zechariah 14:8 and the eternal kingdom?

Jesus Is The Lord

Thats the real eternal kingdom inside the hearts.

[truth7t7]

10 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Thats the real eternal kingdom inside the hearts.

The real eternal kingdom according to scripture seen below, it's going to be unspeakable!

Jesus Is The Lord

Ezekiel 47:5-12KJV

5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.

6 And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.

7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.

8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.

9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.

11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

 

Revelation 21:10-27KJV

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.

16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

[Montana Marv]

The problem is in Ezekiel the water flows into the sea. In Revelation it says there are no longer any seas on the New Earth. Two different time periods. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

[truth7t7]

4 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

I'm sorry but you are trying to make allegorical language come alive in some kind of literally bizarre landscape. In  Luke 17:20-21, Jesus tells us where His kingdom is:

20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

(I would agree with Mr. Hartono).

Do you believe in a future eternal kingdom as described in Revelation chapters 21 & 22?

Edited August 24, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

9 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Oh yes. It's what we are waiting for! I really believe the kingdom of heaven will come right after we go through the period of Great Tribulation. Just be comforted in knowing that those evil days will be shortened for the elect's sake.

Your suggestion of a pre-trib rapture "Days Will Be Shortened" isn't found in scripture Walt, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man

The tribulation will be ruled by the (Two Witnesses) seen in Revelation chapter 11, "All Plagues As Often As They Will"

The Two Witnesses Will Dominate The Entire Tribulation, Something Many Disregard As Non-Existent

 

Try Reading Exodus And The Plagues Upon Pharaoh And Egypt, It's Going To Be A Complete Replay

 

God's Divine Protection, "Open Your Ears"

 

(Revelation) 13:9-10KJV

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

 

God's Divine Protection During The Final Hour Of Earth's Temptation, Just Like The Passover In Egypt, "Open Your Ears"

 

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV

20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

 

The Great Trib Will Be Upon The Antichrist And Wicked, The Church Is Protected, Dont Be Deceived

 

There's Going To Be An End Times Persecution, The Beast And His Kingdom Are The Target Of God's Empowered (Two Witnesses)

 

The Great Tribulation Will Come Upon The Wicked World, While The (Sealed Church) Is Protected

 

The (Sealed Church) will be present on earth and protected, when wicked men are tormented 5 months, desiring to die as death flees

 

All saved believers are (Sealed) by God, Eph 1:13, 4:30

 

Ephesians 1:13KJV

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

Ephesians 4:30KJV

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

It Was Commanded, Only Those Without God's Seal Will Be Tormented, The Sealed Church Is Protected

 

Revelation 9:3-6KJV

3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

 

Plagues upon The Beast and his Kingdom, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

 

Revelation 11:3-6

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

 

Revelation 16:1-11KJV

1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.

6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.

8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.

9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

Edited August 25, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

11 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Oh. Sorry to give you the wrong impression. I am in no way in support of the illogical, unBiblical " pre- trib" teaching. I am inclined to believe that the duration of the Great Tribulation period will be five months, shortened for the sake of the elect, spiritually represented by the " two witnesses". 

The two witnesses ( true believers) will be spiritually " killed", in that they will be silenced from proclaiming the true gospel ( since many false gospels will abound). In that day there will be a famine of " hearing the words of the LORD" ( Amos 8:11-12).  It might be the time when Jesus says in Jn.9:4 "when no man can work".

I also believe the original length of the G.T. was forty two months (3 1/2 days), but shortened to five months. The "locusts " ( Rev. 9) are the loosed fallen angels that attack the true believers ( spiritually speaking).

Remember the parable of the sower?

Matthew 13:19

King James Version

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

And thus the famine of " spiritually hearing God's word " in that day. 

Thanks for the response Walter, I disagree

Therewith be a future 42 month or 3.5 year tribulation that starts when the beast/man of sin is revealed in Jerusalem

The (Two Witnesses) will be literal prophets returned, I believe Enoch/Elijah who never experienced death

These two witnesses will have power over all plagues seen in the Revelation, it will be a literal remake of Moses/Aaron against the Pharaoh of Egypt "All Plagues As Often As They Will"

After these witnesses finish their testimony they will be killed, lay in a literal street in Jerusalem, as a literal world watches in celebration of their death

The final hours of earth's existence unfolds as the two witnesses are raised and called to heaven, that culminates in the Lord's second coming in fire and final judgment (The End)

Jesus Is The Lord

[JoeCanada]

On 8/25/2022 at 3:43 AM, truth7t7 said:

The Great Trib Will Be Upon The Antichrist And Wicked, The Church Is Protected, Dont Be Deceived

Hey t7,

There should be a debate about this. 

You propose that the GT will be upon the antichrist and the wicked.....

And I see from scripture that the GT will be upon the Jewish people and the church.

The wrath of God, which follows the GT, will be upon the antichrist and the wicked.

The GT is the wrath of Satan, not God. The trumpet and bowl judgments are the wrath of God upon the beast kingdom and all unbelievers. Only the 144,000 are sealed to go thru this time of wrath....Rev 7

On 8/25/2022 at 3:43 AM, truth7t7 said:

The (Sealed Church) will be present on earth and protected, when wicked men are tormented 5 months, desiring to die as death flees

This is part of the trump judgments, the 5th trumpet. Believers, ie: the bride, the bondservants, the faithful will be resurrected after the opening of the 6th seal.

 

On 8/25/2022 at 3:43 AM, truth7t7 said:

Ephesians 4:30KJV

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Yes indeed. The day of redemption is the resurrection and rapture is it not? Again, this happens after the opening of the 6th seal.

[truth7t7]

4 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hey t7,

There should be a debate about this. 

You propose that the GT will be upon the antichrist and the wicked.....

And I see from scripture that the GT will be upon the Jewish people and the church.

The wrath of God, which follows the GT, will be upon the antichrist and the wicked.

The GT is the wrath of Satan, not God. The trumpet and bowl judgments are the wrath of God upon the beast kingdom and all unbelievers. Only the 144,000 are sealed to go thru this time of wrath....Rev 7

This is part of the trump judgments, the 5th trumpet. Believers, ie: the bride, the bondservants, the faithful will be resurrected after the opening of the 6th seal.

 

Yes indeed. The day of redemption is the resurrection and rapture is it not? Again, this happens after the opening of the 6th seal.

Thanks for the response Joe

I see the tribulation being 3.5 years long, and the (Two Witnesses) in Revelation chapter 11 will stand before the Antichrist the entire time bringing all literal plagues seen in the Revelation, the Church is caught up and resurrected at the second coming of Jesus Christ on the last day (The End)

Joe when you read Revelation chapter 16:1-11 below, I don't know how you could claim the Antichrist is in charge, it's the (Two Witnesses) bringing the vial plagues below, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, God's in charge 

Revelation 16:1-11KJV

1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.

6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.

8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.

9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

Edited August 30, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

4 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Yes indeed. The day of redemption is the resurrection and rapture is it not? Again, this happens after the opening of the 6th seal.

The First Resurrection, On The Last Day Explained?

 

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

 

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life

2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

 

Revelation 20:6KJV

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

 

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

The (Last Day) Judgement

 

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

[JoeCanada]

7 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Thanks for the response Joe

I see the tribulation being 3.5 years long, and the (Two Witnesses) in Revelation chapter 11 will stand before the Antichrist the entire time bringing all literal plagues seen in the Revelation, the Church is caught up and resurrected at the second coming of Jesus Christ on the last day (The End)

Joe when you read Revelation chapter 16:1-11 below, I don't know how you

8 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

 

could claim the Antichrist is in charge, it's the (Two Witnesses) bringing the vial plagues below, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, God's in charge 

Revelation 16:1-11KJV

1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.

6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.

8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.

9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

In reading chapter 11, we see the 2 witnesses killed, their bodies lying in the street for 3 1/2 days....... and the people of the earth begin celebrating and sending gifts to one another. ( I don't know how they could celebrate and send gifts to each other with all the devastation happening on the earth..... )

Then, they are caught up to heaven after the 3 1/2 days, and scripture then tells us that ...."The second woe is past, then the 7th angel prepares to blow the 7th trumpet".... Rev 11:15

They are not around for the bowl/vial judgments in chapter 16.

And.... you are correct, the antichrist is not in charge in chapter 16, nor is he in charge during the trumpet judgments. This period, the trumpets and vials, are all God's doing. God is in charge. Satan is only in charge during the GT, which is not the wrath of God. 

8 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

the Church is caught up and resurrected at the second coming of Jesus Christ on the last day (The End)

I don't know how people cannot see the second coming of Jesus after the opening of the 6th seal.... which corresponds to Matthew 24:30.

The angel in Acts has this testimony:

"They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.”

How was Jesus taken up into heaven?

In a cloud.

And how will Jesus come back (the second coming)?

"In just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven"

In a cloud.

This is the second coming. Later in Revelation, we see Jesus coming with the armies of heaven. The bride of Christ is not "the armies of heaven"

The "armies of heaven" are angels....warriors.... who fight alongside their King.

His robe is dipped in splattered with blood. What?

This would be better explained in a separate thread, but His splattered robe is from His "treading the winepress of God", which happens before He comes riding a horse with the armies of heaven.....Rev 14:19