Keras Posted September 18, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,696 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Author Share Posted September 18, 2022 9 hours ago, tatwo said: Curios....what do you do with Rev. 11:12...its just two people to you? The two Witnesses are just humans, endowed with special powers. They do get killed and 3 1/2 days later; when Jesus Returns, He will call them to Him, along with all the rest of the GT martyrs; at that time brought back to life. Revelation 20:4 NO ONE receives immortal life until the end of the Millennium. Rev 20:11-15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted September 18, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted September 18, 2022 4 hours ago, Retrobyter said: In NONE of these do we read, "to bring in tribulation!" That is NOT the purpose of the 70th Week any more than it was for the first 69 Weeks! However, a time of trouble was inserted into the 70 Weeks: Daniel 9:24 (KJV) 24 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people (the children of Israel) and upon thy holy city (Jerusalem), (1) to finish the transgression, and (2) to make an end of sins, and (3) to make reconciliation for iniquity, and (4) to bring in everlasting righteousness, and (5) to seal up the vision and prophecy, and (6) to anoint the most Holy." The 70th week is to seal up the vision and prophecy that Daniel had in Daniel 8 about the time of the end little horn person who will be broken by Jesus in Daniel 8:25. Daniel 9:21 - Gabriel, who Daniel had seen in the vision Daniel 9:23 - Gabriel tells Daniel to consider the vision Daniel 9:24 - to seal up the vision and prophecy the daily animal sacrifices must be in place. the daily animal sacrifices will be stopped from daily animal sacrifices until the time of the end little horn's demise - 2300 days. In the vision about the time of the end little horn - the temple will be desecrated, before being cleansed of those things desecrating it. From Revelation, namely, the beast, the false prophet and Satan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tatwo Posted September 18, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 623 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 145 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/18/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted September 18, 2022 8 hours ago, Retrobyter said: Because we have a different "gospel" today - the "condensed version," I submit to you that this heralding of the gospel about the KINGDOM has NOT been accomplished, yet. In fact, I think WE'VE HARDLY STARTED, YET! While we may consider ourselves God's servants and sons and subjects for His Kingdom right now and we are to make new converts for His Kingdom right now, the Kingdom itself has not started, yet! It won't begin until sometime after the arrival of the King Apparent, Yeeshuwa` the Messiah of God. THIS TRUTH needs to be addressed, FIRST! Nice story…I read it all with hope...I learned a little…but your statement “the Kingdom itself has not started, yet!” Ok…sir…umm…there is great disappointment in your future…it will be here sooner that you like. Tatwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted September 18, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted September 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Keras said: They do get killed and 3 1/2 days later; when Jesus Returns, He will call them to Him, along with all the rest of the GT martyrs; at that time brought back to life. Revelation 20:4 Jesus will have already returned to earth, and the beast and the false prophet cast into the lake of fire, and Satan into the bottomless pit - before the great tribulation martyrs are brought back to life in Revelation 20:4. The two witnesses are called up at an earlier time. And their event in Revelation 11 is not part of the great tribulation martyr group resurrection... because Jesus is not returned to earth at the time the two witnesses are called up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted September 18, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,627 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,461 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted September 18, 2022 3 hours ago, douggg said: Daniel 9:24 (KJV) 24 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people (the children of Israel) and upon thy holy city (Jerusalem), (1) to finish the transgression, and (2) to make an end of sins, and (3) to make reconciliation for iniquity, and (4) to bring in everlasting righteousness, and (5) to seal up the vision and prophecy, and (6) to anoint the most Holy." The 70th week is to seal up the vision and prophecy that Daniel had in Daniel 8 about the time of the end little horn person who will be broken by Jesus in Daniel 8:25. Daniel 9:21 - Gabriel, who Daniel had seen in the vision Daniel 9:23 - Gabriel tells Daniel to consider the vision Daniel 9:24 - to seal up the vision and prophecy the daily animal sacrifices must be in place. the daily animal sacrifices will be stopped from daily animal sacrifices until the time of the end little horn's demise - 2300 days. Shalom, douggg. A "sacrifice" is a "an act of giving up something valued for the sake of something else regarded as more important or worthy." In the Tanakh, they were to give up their herds of sheep and goats and cattle to make these sacrifices required by the Law God established. Thus, another definition for "sacrifice" is "an animal, person, or object offered in a sacrifice" and another is "an act of slaughtering an animal or person or surrendering a possession as an offering to God or to a divine or supernatural figure." It's NOT about whether individuals provide animals for slaughter; it's ALL about whether God ACCEPTS those animals slaughtered as their sacrifice! If He does not, they are merely slaughterings that serve no purpose. The Messiah of God ENDED those animal slaughterings for the purpose of appeasing God when He offered His own body as the ultimate Sacrifice for sin! That's what Hebrews 10 is all about! Being a believer, you already know this, I'm sure, but you haven't incorporated this info into your end-times scenarios! The daily animal sacrifices were already in place during Yeshua`s lifetime. The daily animal sacrifices were already stopped with the Sacrifice of Yeshua`s body. That's not to say they won't start up again, but they HAVE NO EFFICACY! They serve NO EFFICIENT PURPOSE! 3 hours ago, douggg said: In the vision about the time of the end little horn - the temple will be desecrated, before being cleansed of those things desecrating it. From Revelation, namely, the beast, the false prophet and Satan. Nice artwork, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted September 18, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,627 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,461 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted September 18, 2022 5 hours ago, tatwo said: Nice story…I read it all with hope...I learned a little…but your statement “the Kingdom itself has not started, yet!” Ok…sir…umm…there is great disappointment in your future…it will be here sooner that you like. Tatwo Shalom, Tatwo. Not at all, my brother. I look forward to my King's arrival! Consider what Yeshua` said: Matthew 25:31 (KJV) 31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:" And, Luke 19:11-15 (KJV) 11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore, "A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, "'Occupy till I come.' 14 "But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, "'We will not have this man to reign over us!' 15 "And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading." It's important to understand that the Kingdom doesn't truly begin until the King has returned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted September 18, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,696 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Author Share Posted September 18, 2022 10 hours ago, douggg said: Jesus will have already returned to earth, and the beast and the false prophet cast into the lake of fire, and Satan into the bottomless pit - before the great tribulation martyrs are brought back to life in Revelation 20:4. Yes, what you say is correct, but note in Revelation 11:13; at the moment the 2W's ascend, a great earthquake happens. That earthquake is the same one which will happen at Armageddon. Revelation 16:18 I believe that at the Resurrection of the GT martyrs, the 2W's will be with them, They ARE GT martyrs too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted September 19, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2022 18 hours ago, Keras said: Yes, what you say is correct, but note in Revelation 11:13; at the moment the 2W's ascend, a great earthquake happens. That earthquake is the same one which will happen at Armageddon. Revelation 16:18 I believe that at the Resurrection of the GT martyrs, the 2W's will be with them, They ARE GT martyrs too! There are no great tribulation martyrs. The saints are killed before the great tribulation. When the great tribulation begins, any that have endured till then will be saved. The great tribulation begins at the time of the end. Unless your talking about all the Muslims that die for thier cause. There will be plenty of them, but they are not resurected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tatwo Posted September 19, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 623 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 145 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/18/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2022 On 9/18/2022 at 10:50 AM, Retrobyter said: Shalom, Tatwo. Not at all, my brother. I look forward to my King's arrival! Well sir...if your still waiting for your kings arrival...as I said to you before...there is great disappointment in your future...the one your waiting for will make a slave out of you and anyone else who denies the resurrection of Christ...as God and King...just before he destroys you. The eternal truth is...The King of kings and Lord of lords has come...Pentecost was the day the Holy Spirit was poured out upon humanity...the spiritual kingdom of God and His throne were established it as prophesied...on the earth in His temple...His people...it was always going to be that way. He is here today...ruling in His kingdom on earth and in heaven...of course...Christ Yahshua is the head and He has a body...and as such...sir...we...you and I...are not of the same womb so we are not brothers...not at all. You had better repent from that rebellious and disobedient worship of some false god and seek out Christ while He can be found...if not...know that you have been judged already. Tatwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted September 19, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,696 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Author Share Posted September 19, 2022 3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said: There are no great tribulation martyrs. The saints are killed before the great tribulation. When the great tribulation begins, any that have endured till then will be saved. The great tribulation begins at the time of the end. Unless your talking about all the Muslims that die for thier cause. There will be plenty of them, but they are not resurected. The Great Tribulation is the final 3 1/2 year period before Jesus Returns. The 7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls will take place i that time. Many Christians will be killed for their faith then, incl the 2W. Islam will be virtually destroyed at the Sixth Seal, the next prophesied event, which will clear and cleanse all of the holy Land. Deuteronomy 32:34-43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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