Witnessing to Jewish people

[JohnD]

23 hours ago, Slibhin said:

Here's the difference between the people who insult me and you. You're very passive aggressive, while others here just flat out denigrate me.

You are so drowning in your self righteousness that your brain cannot compute that you may be incorrect about anything. You just repeat yourself as if what you say is established indisputable fact to the point you don't have to prove your case. Then when people don't take your word as if it's handed down by G-d himself, you repeat yourself ad nauseum and arrogantly assume it's me being defiant when I'm unconvinced. I'm not defiant, you simply haven't made your case and you just wish to insist that you're right. Telling me my view is narrow, telling me I don't think for myself and insulting my intelligence (all of which you have done) does not endear me to you. It's also ironic because unlike you I am always willing to admit if I'm wrong.

I have said repeatedly that if you or anyone can show me how Jesus fits the Jewish requirements to be the Messiah I'll be in church next Sunday. I'm dead serious.

You guys, (and I mean Christians in general, not just this forum), think telling us we don't know anything about our own scriptures and you're right because the book we don't believe in says so and therefore should be enough. When we disregard that reasoning you insult us.

Make your case, anyone here is free to do so. I'm listening. I'll respond if I think you're cherry picking from the Tanakh or twisting the meaning. I'm upfront that I don't believe in the bible nor does any Jew, so it's not evidence to us. If Jesus is in the Tanakh or the "Old Testament" as you claim then you should have no problem proving it from that source.

I have not disregarded peoples arguments simply because they were not in Hebrew, I have done so only when the Hebrew was not translated correctly. Subtle difference there.

As far as Messianic "Jews", it's hilarious that your response is "Ah but MY reasoning for rejecting Mormons/JWs/Adventists/Catholics is based on my sound understanding, but when you reject us on the same merits that we reject them it's completely wrong". You are so blind to your hypocrisy.

You can call yourself Jewish all you want and so can Jews for Jesus and all the so called Messianic Jews. I can't stop you from doing that and you're all entitled to believe what you want. What you cannot do is insist we accept you, because you do not follow Orthodox Judaism in any meaningful way. That's not just my mean opinion that is the view of every Jew, even the reformed and conservative Jews. Israel doesn't even accept you as Jewish.

I have no problem with Christians, G-d bless all of you. But don't think you can insult me into agreeing with you.

Slibhin, in all honesty... I am only a beggar trying to share with you and others where I've found bread.

[JohnD]

8 hours ago, Slibhin said:

13 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Where in the Torah does God state these requirements for non-Jews?

One law shall be to him that is homeborn [Israel], and unto the stranger [foreigner] that sojourneth among you. - Exo 12:49 KJV

God makes it clear there is only one law for Jew and foreigner.

I don't believe in the KJV.

The source is the Talmud.

A cop out.

Shemot 12:49 (Chabad Tanakh)

49 There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who resides in your midst."		מטתּוֹרָ֣ה אַחַ֔ת יִֽהְיֶ֖ה לָֽאֶזְרָ֑ח וְלַגֵּ֖ר הַגָּ֥ר בְּתֽוֹכְכֶֽם:

[JohnD]

Daniel 9:

24Seventy weeks [of years] have been decreed upon your people and upon the city of your Sanctuary to terminate the transgression and to end sin, and to expiate iniquity, and to bring eternal righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies.		כדשָֽׁבֻעִ֨ים שִׁבְעִ֜ים נֶחְתַּ֥ךְ עַל־עַמְּךָ֣ | וְעַל־עִ֣יר קָדְשֶׁ֗ךָ לְכַלֵּ֨א הַפֶּ֜שַׁע וּלְהָתֵ֚ם (כתיב וּלְחָתֵ֚ם) חַטָּאוֹת֙ וּלְכַפֵּ֣ר עָו‍ֹ֔ן וּלְהָבִ֖יא צֶ֣דֶק עֹֽלָמִ֑ים וְלַחְתֹּם֙ חָז֣וֹן וְנָבִ֔יא וְלִמְשֹׁ֖חַ קֹ֥דֶשׁ קָֽדָשִֽׁים:
25And you shall know and understand that from the emergence of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until the anointed king [shall be] seven weeks, and [for] sixty-two weeks it will return and be built street and moat, but in troubled times.		כהוְתֵדַ֨ע וְתַשְׂכֵּ֜ל מִן־מֹצָ֣א דָבָ֗ר לְהָשִׁיב֙ וְלִבְנ֚וֹת יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֙ם֙ עַד־מָשִׁ֣יחַ נָגִ֔יד שָֽׁבֻעִ֖ים שִׁבְעָ֑ה וְשָֽׁבֻעִ֞ים שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֗יִם תָּשׁוּב֙ וְנִבְנְתָה֙ רְח֣וֹב וְחָר֔וּץ וּבְצ֖וֹק הָעִתִּֽים:
26And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one will be cut off, and he will be no more, and the people of the coming monarch will destroy the city and the Sanctuary, and his end will come about by inundation, and until the end of the war, it will be cut off into desolation.		כווְאַֽחֲרֵ֚י הַשָּֽׁבֻעִים֙ שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֔יִם יִכָּרֵ֥ת מָשִׁ֖יחַ וְאֵ֣ין ל֑וֹ וְהָעִ֨יר וְהַקֹּ֜דֶשׁ יַ֠שְׁחִית עַ֣ם נָגִ֚יד הַבָּא֙ וְקִצּ֣וֹ בַשֶּׁ֔טֶף וְעַד֙ קֵ֣ץ מִלְחָמָ֔ה נֶֽחֱרֶ֖צֶת שֹֽׁמֵמֽוֹת:
27And he will strengthen a covenant for the princes for one week, and half the week he will abolish sacrifice and meal- offering, and on high, among abominations, will be the dumb one, and until destruction and extermination befall the dumb one.		כזוְהִגְבִּ֥יר בְּרִ֛ית לָֽרַבִּ֖ים שָׁב֣וּעַ אֶחָ֑ד וַֽחֲצִ֨י הַשָּׁב֜וּעַ יַשְׁבִּ֣ית | זֶ֣בַח וּמִנְחָ֗ה וְעַ֨ל כְּנַ֚ף שִׁקּוּצִים֙ מְשֹׁמֵ֔ם וְעַד־כָּלָה֙ וְנֶ֣חֱרָצָ֔ה תִּתַּ֖ךְ עַל־שׁוֹמֵֽם:

[JohnD]

Anointing the Holy of Holies to terminate transgression and to end sin:

Vayikra 16:

14And he shall take some of the bull's blood and sprinkle [it] with his index finger on top of the ark cover on the eastern side; and before the ark cover, he shall sprinkle seven times from the blood, with his index finger.		ידוְלָקַח֙ מִדַּ֣ם הַפָּ֔ר וְהִזָּ֧ה בְאֶצְבָּע֛וֹ עַל־פְּנֵ֥י הַכַּפֹּ֖רֶת קֵ֑דְמָה וְלִפְנֵ֣י הַכַּפֹּ֗רֶת יַזֶּ֧ה שֶֽׁבַע־פְּעָמִ֛ים מִן־הַדָּ֖ם בְּאֶצְבָּעֽוֹ:
Yeshua did this once for all with his own blood.

[JohnD]

Yishayahu 52:
13Behold My servant shall prosper; he shall be exalted and lifted up, and he shall be very high.		יגהִנֵּ֥ה יַשְׂכִּ֖יל עַבְדִּ֑י יָר֧וּם וְנִשָּׂ֛א וְגָבַ֖הּ מְאֹֽד:
14As many wondered about you, "How marred his appearance is from that of a man, and his features from that of people!"		ידכַּֽאֲשֶׁ֨ר שָֽׁמְמ֚וּ עָלֶ֙יךָ֙ רַבִּ֔ים כֵּן־מִשְׁחַ֥ת מֵאִ֖ישׁ מַרְאֵ֑הוּ וְתֹֽאֲר֖וֹ מִבְּנֵ֥י אָדָֽם:
15So shall he cast down many nations; kings shall shut their mouths because of him, for, what had not been told them they saw, and [at] what they had not heard they gazed.		טוכֵּ֚ן יַזֶּה֙ גּוֹיִ֣ם רַבִּ֔ים עָלָ֛יו יִקְפְּצ֥וּ מְלָכִ֖ים פִּיהֶ֑ם כִּ֠י אֲשֶׁ֨ר לֹֽא־סֻפַּ֚ר לָהֶם֙ רָא֔וּ וַֽאֲשֶׁ֥ר לֹֽא־שָֽׁמְע֖וּ הִתְבּוֹנָֽנוּ:

[JohnD]

Yishayahu 53:

 

1Who would have believed our report, and to whom was the arm of the Lord revealed?		אמִ֥י הֶֽאֱמִ֖ין לִשְׁמֻֽעָתֵ֑נוּ וּזְר֥וֹעַ יְהֹוָ֖ה עַל־מִ֥י נִגְלָֽתָה:
2And he came up like a sapling before it, and like a root from dry ground, he had neither form nor comeliness; and we saw him that he had no appearance. Now shall we desire him?		בוַיַּ֨עַל כַּיּוֹנֵ֜ק לְפָנָ֗יו וְכַשֹּׁ֙רֶשׁ֙ מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צִיָּ֔ה לֹא־תֹ֥אַר ל֖וֹ וְלֹ֣א הָדָ֑ר וְנִרְאֵ֥הוּ וְלֹֽא־מַרְאֶ֖ה וְנֶֽחְמְדֵֽהוּ:
3Despised and rejected by men, a man of pains and accustomed to illness, and as one who hides his face from us, despised and we held him of no account.		גנִבְזֶה֙ וַֽחֲדַ֣ל אִישִׁ֔ים אִ֥ישׁ מַכְאֹב֖וֹת וִיד֣וּעַ חֹ֑לִי וּכְמַסְתֵּ֚ר פָּנִים֙ מִמֶּ֔נּוּ נִבְזֶ֖ה וְלֹ֥א חֲשַׁבְנֻֽהוּ:
4Indeed, he bore our illnesses, and our pains-he carried them, yet we accounted him as plagued, smitten by God and oppressed.		דאָכֵ֚ן חֳלָיֵ֙נוּ֙ ה֣וּא נָשָׂ֔א וּמַכְאֹבֵ֖ינוּ סְבָלָ֑ם וַֽאֲנַ֣חְנוּ חֲשַׁבְנֻ֔הוּ נָג֛וּעַ מֻכֵּ֥ה אֱלֹהִ֖ים וּמְעֻנֶּֽה:
5But he was pained because of our transgressions, crushed because of our iniquities; the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his wound we were healed.		הוְהוּא֙ מְחֹלָ֣ל מִפְּשָׁעֵ֔נוּ מְדֻכָּ֖א מֵֽעֲוֹֽנוֹתֵ֑ינוּ מוּסַ֚ר שְׁלוֹמֵ֙נוּ֙ עָלָ֔יו וּבַֽחֲבֻֽרָת֖וֹ נִרְפָּא־לָֽנוּ:
6We all went astray like sheep, we have turned, each one on his way, and the Lord accepted his prayers for the iniquity of all of us.		וכֻּלָּ֙נוּ֙ כַּצֹּ֣אן תָּעִ֔ינוּ אִ֥ישׁ לְדַרְכּ֖וֹ פָּנִ֑ינוּ וַֽיהֹוָה֙ הִפְגִּ֣יעַ בּ֔וֹ אֵ֖ת עֲו‍ֹ֥ן כֻּלָּֽנוּ:
7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he would not open his mouth; like a lamb to the slaughter he would be brought, and like a ewe that is mute before her shearers, and he would not open his mouth.		זנִגַּ֨שׂ וְה֣וּא נַֽעֲנֶה֘ וְלֹ֣א יִפְתַּח־פִּיו֒ כַּשֶּׂה֙ לַטֶּ֣בַח יוּבָ֔ל וּכְרָחֵ֕ל לִפְנֵ֥י גֹֽזְזֶ֖יהָ נֶֽאֱלָ֑מָה וְלֹ֥א יִפְתַּ֖ח פִּֽיו:
8From imprisonment and from judgment he is taken, and his generation who shall tell? For he was cut off from the land of the living; because of the transgression of my people, a plague befell them.		חמֵעֹ֚צֶר וּמִמִּשְׁפָּט֙ לֻקָּ֔ח וְאֶת־דּוֹר֖וֹ מִ֣י יְשׂוֹחֵ֑חַ כִּ֚י נִגְזַר֙ מֵאֶ֣רֶץ חַיִּ֔ים מִפֶּ֥שַׁע עַמִּ֖י נֶ֥גַע לָֽמוֹ:
9And he gave his grave to the wicked, and to the wealthy with his kinds of death, because he committed no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth.		טוַיִּתֵּ֚ן אֶת־רְשָׁעִים֙ קִבְר֔וֹ וְאֶת־עָשִׁ֖יר בְּמֹתָ֑יו עַל לֹֽא־חָמָ֣ס עָשָׂ֔ה וְלֹ֥א מִרְמָ֖ה בְּפִֽיו:
10And the Lord wished to crush him, He made him ill; if his soul makes itself restitution, he shall see children, he shall prolong his days, and God's purpose shall prosper in his hand.		יוַֽיהֹוָ֞ה חָפֵ֚ץ דַּכְּאוֹ֙ הֶֽחֱלִ֔י אִם־תָּשִׂ֚ים אָשָׁם֙ נַפְשׁ֔וֹ יִרְאֶ֥ה זֶ֖רַע יַֽאֲרִ֣יךְ יָמִ֑ים וְחֵ֥פֶץ יְהֹוָ֖ה בְּיָד֥וֹ יִצְלָֽח:
11From the toil of his soul he would see, he would be satisfied; with his knowledge My servant would vindicate the just for many, and their iniquities he would bear.		יאמֵֽעֲמַ֚ל נַפְשׁוֹ֙ יִרְאֶ֣ה יִשְׂבָּ֔ע בְּדַעְתּ֗וֹ יַצְדִּ֥יק צַדִּ֛יק עַבְדִּ֖י לָֽרַבִּ֑ים וַֽעֲו‍ֹנֹתָ֖ם ה֥וּא יִסְבֹּֽל:
12Therefore, I will allot him a portion in public, and with the strong he shall share plunder, because he poured out his soul to death, and with transgressors he was counted; and he bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors.		יבלָכֵ֞ן אֲחַלֶּק־ל֣וֹ בָֽרַבִּ֗ים וְאֶת־עֲצוּמִים֘ יְחַלֵּ֣ק שָׁלָל֒ תַּ֗חַת אֲשֶׁ֨ר הֶֽעֱרָ֚ה לַמָּ֙וֶת֙ נַפְשׁ֔וֹ וְאֶת־פֹּֽשְׁעִ֖ים נִמְנָ֑ה וְהוּא֙ חֵֽטְא־רַבִּ֣ים נָשָׂ֔א וְלַפֹּֽשְׁעִ֖ים יַפְגִּֽיעַ:

[JohnD]

Tehellim 49:

15Like sheep, they are destined to the grave; death will devour them, and the upright will rule over them in the morning, and their form will outlast the grave as his dwelling place.		טוכַּצֹּ֚אן | לִֽשְׁא֣וֹל שַׁתּוּ֘ מָ֪וֶת יִ֫רְעֵ֥ם וַיִּרְדּ֘וּ בָ֚ם יְשָׁרִ֨ים | לַבֹּ֗קֶר ֖וְצוּרָם (כתיב וְ֖ציּרָם) לְבַלּ֥וֹת שְׁא֗וֹל מִזְּבֻ֥ל לֽוֹ:
16But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave, for He shall take me forever.		טזאַךְ־אֱלֹהִ֗ים יִפְדֶּה־נַ֖פְשִׁי מִיַּ֣ד שְׁא֑וֹל כִּ֖י יִקָּחֵ֣נִי סֶֽלָה:
Yeshua was raised from the grave.

[JohnD]

Telhillim 110:

4The Lord swore and will not repent; you are a priest forever because of the speech of Malchizedek.		דנִשְׁבַּ֚ע יְהֹוָ֨ה | וְלֹ֥֬א יִנָּחֵ֗ם אַתָּה־כֹהֵ֥ן לְעוֹלָ֑ם עַל־דִּ֜בְרָתִ֗י מַלְכִּי־צֶֽדֶק:
Yeshua is the priest on his throne (Zechariah 6:12-13)

[JohnD]

Tehilliam 68:

19You ascended on high, you took captives; you took gifts to be among men, and also rebellious ones for Yah God to dwell.		יטעָ֘לִ֚יתָ לַמָּר֨וֹם | שָׁ֘בִ֚יתָ שֶּׁ֗בִי לָקַ֣חְתָּ מַ֖תָּנוֹת בָּֽאָדָ֑ם וְאַ֥ף סֽ֜וֹרְרִ֗ים לִשְׁכֹּ֚ן | יָ֬הּ אֱלֹהִֽים:
20Blessed is the Lord; every day God lavishes upon us our salvation forever.		כבָּר֥וּךְ אֲדֹנָי֘ י֚וֹם | י֗וֹם יַֽעֲמָ֫ס לָ֥נוּ הָ֘אֵ֚ל יְשֽׁוּעָתֵ֬נוּ סֶֽלָה:
21God is to us the God of salvations, but God the Lord has the ways to death.		כאהָ֚אֵ֖ל | לָנוּ֘ אֵ֪ל לְמֽוֹשָׁ֫ע֥וֹת וְלֵֽיהֹוִ֥ה אֲדֹנָ֑י לַ֜מָּ֗וֶת תּֽוֹצָאֽוֹת:
Yeshua ascended to heaven.

[JohnD]

Tehillim 69:

9I was strange to my brothers, and alien to the sons of my mother.		טמוּזָר הָיִ֣יתִי לְאֶחָ֑י וְ֜נָכְרִ֗י לִבְנֵ֥י אִמִּֽי:
Yeshua was / is rejected by his own people.