As a Catholic I was taught that the Catholic Church created the Bible

[OneLight]

4 minutes ago, Not of the World said:

Without looking it up I guess it means "message" or "word of God" or something along those lines.  Paul's use of that word doesn't necessarily mean that it was in written form but, considering that Paul was (apparently) a voracious writer, I think it's safe to glean that he DID put it into writing.  But that's just my impression.  How about you?

The word means "good news" or "good tidings".  Take the Gospel of John.  We could say the Good News of John and still be correct, whether we quote it or read the written word, it's still good news.

[Not of the World]

6 minutes ago, OneLight said:

The word means "good news" or "good tidings".  Take the Gospel of John.  We could say the Good News of John and still be correct, whether we quote it or read the written word, it's still good news.

Thank you.  I decided to look it up and there seems to be a secular definition of "gospel" as well as the definition which you correctly (as I discovered) defined.  

[Michael37]

3 hours ago, Not of the World said:

The Bible itself tells us that the or a "gospel" existed as early as Paul.  What I love about the Bible is that one doesn't have to have a PHD in Bible History to know this.  

 

20 and thus I make it my ambition to preach the gospel, not where Christ has already been named, lest I build on someone else's foundation, 21 but as it is written,

“Those who have never been told of him will see,
    and those who have never heard will understand.”

Yes, anyone can read up on how we got our Bible. I used to teach Children's Church with visual aids to show how the books in the Old Testament came into being as scribes who were guided by the Holy Spirit began meticulously recording what is known as the Oral Tradition of Scripture, and faithfully collated written material in scrolls until eventually the Septuagint was agreed on.

Quote from Septuagint - Wikipedia

   The full title (Ancient Greek: Ἡ μετάφρασις τῶν Ἑβδομήκοντα, lit. 'The Translation of the Seventy') derives from the story recorded in the Letter of Aristeas that the Hebrew Torah was translated into Greek at the request of Ptolemy II Philadelphus (285–247 BCE) by 70 Jewish scholars or, according to later tradition, 72: six scholars from each of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, who independently produced identical translations.^[8][9]

 

The Books of the New Testament are not in chronological order as the practice of scribes was to present written works in order of length rather than by date of composition. The "Good News"/Gospel of Jesus Christ was communicated verbally before it became available in written form. See below:

   Chronology of the New Testament Books - UnderstandChristianity.com

DATE (AD)	GOSPELS/HISTORICAL	PAUL’S EPISTLES (WRITTEN FROM)	GENERAL EPISTLES
MID/LATE 40s	Matthew	After 1st Missionary Journey: Galatians (from Antioch or Corinth)	James
EARLY 50s		2nd Missionary Journey: 1 Thessalonians (from Corinth) 2 Thessalonians (from Corinth)
MID/LATE 50s	Luke	3rd Missionary Journey: 1 Corinthians (from Ephesus) 2 Corinthians (from Macedonia) Romans (from Corinth)
EARLY 60s	Acts	1st Imprisonment: Ephesians (from Rome) Colossians (from Rome) Philemon (from Rome) Philippians (from Rome)
MID/LATE 60s (POST-ACTS)	Mark	4th Missionary Journey: 1 Timothy (from Macedonia) Titus (from Nicopolis) 2nd Imprisonment: 2 Timothy (from Rome)	1 Peter 2 Peter Hebrews Jude
70s OR 80s
90s	John		1 John 2 John 3 John Revelation

 

[Not of the World]

11 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Yes, anyone can read up on how we got our Bible. I used to teach Children's Church with visual aids to show how the books in the Old Testament came into being as scribes who were guided by the Holy Spirit began meticulously recording what is known as the Oral Tradition of Scripture, and faithfully collated written material in scrolls until eventually the Septuagint was agreed on.

Quote from Septuagint - Wikipedia

   The full title (Ancient Greek: Ἡ μετάφρασις τῶν Ἑβδομήκοντα, lit. 'The Translation of the Seventy') derives from the story recorded in the Letter of Aristeas that the Hebrew Torah was translated into Greek at the request of Ptolemy II Philadelphus (285–247 BCE) by 70 Jewish scholars or, according to later tradition, 72: six scholars from each of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, who independently produced identical translations.^[8][9]

 

The Books of the New Testament are not in chronological order as the practice of scribes was to present written works in order of length rather than by date of composition. The "Good News"/Gospel of Jesus Christ was communicated verbally before it became available in written form. See below:

   Chronology of the New Testament Books - UnderstandChristianity.com

DATE (AD)	GOSPELS/HISTORICAL	PAUL’S EPISTLES (WRITTEN FROM)	GENERAL EPISTLES
MID/LATE 40s	Matthew	After 1st Missionary Journey: Galatians (from Antioch or Corinth)	James
EARLY 50s		2nd Missionary Journey: 1 Thessalonians (from Corinth) 2 Thessalonians (from Corinth)
MID/LATE 50s	Luke	3rd Missionary Journey: 1 Corinthians (from Ephesus) 2 Corinthians (from Macedonia) Romans (from Corinth)
EARLY 60s	Acts	1st Imprisonment: Ephesians (from Rome) Colossians (from Rome) Philemon (from Rome) Philippians (from Rome)
MID/LATE 60s (POST-ACTS)	Mark	4th Missionary Journey: 1 Timothy (from Macedonia) Titus (from Nicopolis) 2nd Imprisonment: 2 Timothy (from Rome)	1 Peter 2 Peter Hebrews Jude
70s OR 80s
90s	John		1 John 2 John 3 John Revelation

 

Thank you.

[Dennis1209]

In addition to the excellent responses above. We now have what is commonly referred to as the “Dead Sea Scroll Bible.” It verifies the accuracy of the manuscripts used for our Bible almost verbatim.

Many of our translations are being updated, revised, and footnoted with the italics replaced. The Essenes and scrolls existed at least by the third century B.C.

There is something very interesting to be gleaned from my notes below about John the Baptist and the Essenes. Jesus’s response to John the Baptist if He is the One or if John should look for another. Should anyone read the notes, here’s some help.  

Essenes | Dead Sea Scrolls

DEAD SEA SCROLLS

The Dead Sea Scrolls are non-canonical; they verify the accuracy and authenticity of the translation of our Bibles. Because of the Dead Sea Scrolls, we have a better understanding of the scriptures today. Great care was taken in the translations of all manuscripts. The Qumran Scrolls have been dubbed “The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible” by many modern scholars.

Because of the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, several Bible translations have been revised. In our Bible, many words are italicized. This is because fragments are missing from the manuscripts used (Masoretic, Textus Receptus, the Majority Text, the Minority Text, etc.). Or words were added to make the scripture understandable in English grammar.

Is it a coincidence that the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered a year or two before Israel becoming a nation once again, in one day, May 14, 1948; by decree of the United Nations? Some scholars believe Isaiah mentions the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in the following:

Isaiah 29:4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust. 5. Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly. 

In the second Temple period, there were various Jewish sects including; the Sanhedrin, the Pharisees; the Sadducees; and the Essenes. The Essenes were around at least a few centuries before the birth of the Messiah. The Essenes had their theology correct, the other Jewish sects did not. The Essenes suddenly vanished and disappeared from history directly after Christ’s resurrection. They were most likely absorbed into the newly founded church. Some reputable scholars speculate that John the Baptist was associated with the Essenes.

Matthew 11:1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities. 2. Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, 3. And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another? 4. Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: 5. The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

Jesus uses a teaching moment. The Pharisees were looking for a man (a general), a political leader, to kick the Romans out of power (totally apostate). The Essenes taught there is one Messiah, with two comings. John the Baptist may have been confused and wondering if Jesus was the only Messiah or was another one coming. Are there two separate comings?

If John the Baptist were part of the “School of the Prophets,” he probably would have known. The Essene theology was; one Messiah with two comings. John is in prison and knowing his death was imminent, might have thought he might have messed up, or he indeed had doubts. The Essenes were the only ones thought of and called “the holy ones,” not the Pharisees, Sadducees, or any other Jewish sect.

Part of Jesus’s response to John the Baptist is from Isaiah 61: and Psalms. In Matthew 11:5, “the dead are raised up”, that is not in the Old Testament anywhere, that the Messiah would raise the dead. It should be found somewhere, where is it? Matthew 11:5 is a list of the things the Messiah would do in His ministry. The things listed in Matthew 11:5 are quoted in the Old Testament, except for raising the dead. Where is the Messiah raising the dead found?

It is found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, mentioned in various places. This list of Matthew 11:5 appears in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and John the Baptist would have had access to them, and had known about it. It is found in Messianic Apocalypse; 4Q521:

“[the hea]vens and the earth will listen to His Messiah ["anointed one"], and none therein will stray from the commandments of the holy ones. Seekers of the Lord, strengthen yourselves in His service! All you hopeful in (your) heart, will you not find the Lord in this? For the Lord will consider the pious (hasidim) and call the righteous by name. Over the poor His spirit will hover and will renew the faithful with His power. And He will glorify the pious on the throne of the eternal Kingdom. He who liberates the captives, restores sight to the blind, straightens the b[ent] And f[or] ever I will cleav[ve to the h]opeful and in His mercy... And the fr[uit...] will not be delayed for anyone. And the Lord will accomplish glorious things which have never been as [He...] For He will heal the wounded, and revive the dead and bring good news to the poor ...He will lead the uprooted and knowledge...and smoke (?)” — Michael O. Wise, translation[4]

John the Baptist would have immediately known by this, he need not look for another.

Alternatively: Many historical and modern scholars have the correct interpretation also: Matthew 11:4–5 Jesus confirmed His identity as the Christ by appealing to His miraculous and gracious works (Isa 29:18–19; 35:5–6; 61:1). ¹

_{Dennis Commentary: Credits Dr. Ken Johnson and Charlse L. Quarles}

THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS BIBLE

The biblical scrolls from Qumran have had a profound impact on our understanding of the development and transmission of the Hebrew text of the Old Testament. Before 1947, scholars who studied the transmission of the text of the Hebrew Bible had access to the Masoretic Text handed down by scribes in Judaism since the second century A.D., the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament; and the Samaritan Pentateuch. All of these witnesses to the text of the Old Testament were preserved in manuscripts that dated well after the time of the composition of the Old Testament. The oldest complete Hebrew manuscript of the Old Testament before the discoveries at Qumran dated to around 1000 A.D.

When the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, manuscripts of the Hebrew Old Testament as old as the third century B.C. were among them—more than a millennium older than the best textual data known at the time.

At the time of Jesus and rabbi Hillel—the origins of Christianity and rabbinic Judaism—there was, and there was not, a “Bible.” This critical period, and the nature of the Bible in that period, have been freshly illuminated by the biblical Dead Sea Scrolls.

There was a Bible in the sense that there were certain sacred books widely recognized by Jews as foundational to their religion and supremely authoritative for religious practice. There was not, however, a Bible in the sense that the leaders of the general Jewish community had specifically considered, debated, and definitively decided the full range of which books were supremely and permanently authoritative and which ones—no matter how sublime, useful, or beloved—were not. The collection or collections of the Scriptures varied from group to group and from time to time. All Jews would have recognized “the Law” (the Torah) and most would have recognized “the Prophets” as belonging to that collection. Such recognition is attested by references in the New Testament to the “Law and the Prophets” (Matt 7:12; Luke 16:16; and Rom 3:21). But the exact contents of “the Prophets” may not have been the same for all, and the status of other books beyond “the Law and the Prophets” was neither clear nor widely accepted. The notion of a wider collection of Scriptures that extended beyond the Law and Prophets is suggested by an intriguing passage in Luke 24, which says that “everything written about me [i.e., Jesus] in the Law of Moses, in the Prophets, and in the Psalms must be fulfilled” (vs. 44).

The Dead Sea Scrolls help us see the situation more clearly from an on-the-spot perspective. “The Bible,” or more accurately then, “the Scriptures,” would have been a collection of numerous separate scrolls, each containing usually only one or two books. There is indeed persuasive evidence that certain books were considered “Scripture.” But there is little evidence that people were seriously asking the question yet about the extent or the limits of the collection—the crucial question for a “Bible” or “canon”—which books are in and which books are outside this most sacred collection.

Thus, The Dead Sea Scrolls Scriptures may be a more historically accurate title for this volume. At any rate, it presents the remains of the books for which there is good evidence that Jews at that time viewed them as Sacred Scripture.

The “Bibles” Used Today

The word “Bible” has different meanings for different people and groups. The most obvious difference in content is between the Bible of Judaism (i.e., the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament) and that of Christianity, which contains both the Old and New Testaments. The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible does not include any New Testament books for one simple reason: by the time the vast majority of the scrolls had been copied (in 68 ce), the New Testament was only beginning to be written. Not surprisingly, then, there are no copies of New Testament books among the scrolls.

The list of books included in a Bible is termed a “canon.” There are three main canons in the different Bibles used today (see Figure 1):

1.   The Jewish Bible (or Tanak) contains twenty-four books in three sections: the Torah, the Prophets, and the Writings.

2.   The Protestant Old Testament contains the same books as the Tanak, but in four sections and in a different order: the Pentateuch, the Historical Books, the Poetical Books, and the Prophets. In addition, the Protestant canon contains thirty-nine books, not twenty-four, because it counts separately several books that comprise single books in the Jewish Bible. For example, the one Book of the Twelve Minor Prophets in the Jewish canon becomes the twelve books of the Minor Prophets in the Protestant Bible.

3.   The Roman Catholic Old Testament contains exactly the same four divisions and thirty-nine books as the Protestant Bible, but also includes further writings. Seven of these are entire books (Tobit, Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus, and Baruch [which includes the Letter of Jeremiah]); the others are sections added to Esther (the Additions to Esther) and to Daniel (the Prayer of Azariah, Song of the Three Young Men, Susanna, and Bel and the Dragon). For Catholics, these additional writings are part of the Bible and are thus known as the “deuterocanonical books” (that is, a second group of canonical books). However, Jews and most Protestants do not view these writings as Scripture, labeling them the “Apocrypha” (plural of “Apocryphon”), which means “hidden books.”

Some scholars believe that these books are not in the Jewish and Protestant canons because they are later than most other biblical books (Daniel being an exception), while others point to their supposed secular or unorthodox content as the reason for exclusion. The real explanation, however, is more complicated and goes back to two ancient Bibles. Early Christians accepted the Greek Septuagint, which contains these additional books, as their Old Testament, while early Rabbis finalized the list of books for the Hebrew Bible in the second century ce. It is these two early collections (the shorter Hebrew one and the longer Greek one) that determine which books are included in the Bibles used by modern Jews, Protestants, and Catholics. Jews, followed by Protestants, regard the shorter collection as Scripture, whereas Catholics accept a larger canon that includes apocryphal/deuterocanonical writings found in the Septuagint.^[1]

 ^[1]Martin Abegg Jr., Peter Flint, and Eugene Ulrich, The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible: The Oldest Known Bible Translated for the First Time into English(New York: HarperOne, 1999), vii–x.