Could there be Multiple Raptures?

[FreeGrace]

10 hours ago, The Light said:

Where do you think these righteous of the 12 tribes are going at the harvest?

Please explain what you mean by "the harvest".  I don't believe that the resurrection is ever referred to as a "harvest".

And please add the verse/passage where you see the righteous of the 12 tribes going anywhere.

Thanks.

[The Light]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Please explain what you mean by "the harvest".  I don't believe that the resurrection is ever referred to as a "harvest".

Gods feast days tell you about the harvests. The first harvest Feast is Passover, the barley harvest. The second harvest Feast is Pentecost, the wheat harvest. The third harvest feast is the Feast of Trumpets the fall fruit harvest. What you are looking at in Revelation 14 is the fall fruit harvest.

Revelation 14

¹⁸ And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

And please add the verse/passage where you see the righteous of the 12 tribes going anywhere.

Thanks.

Here are the righteous of the 12 tribes that are harvested in Revelation 14. They go to heaven and are before the throne. They are singing the song of Moses because they are of the 12 tribes across the earth.

Revelation 15

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Also consider that the 144,000 of the 12 tribes are considered 1st fruits of the harvest that are gathered and presented to God. If you have acceptable 1st fruits that means there will be a harvest. And that harvest will be the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman.

Revleation 14

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

[FreeGrace]

26 minutes ago, The Light said:

Gods feast days tell you about the harvests. The first harvest Feast is Passover, the barley harvest. The second harvest Feast is Pentecost, the wheat harvest. The third harvest feast is the Feast of Trumpets the fall fruit harvest. What you are looking at in Revelation 14 is the fall fruit harvest. They go to heaven and are before the throne. They are singing the song of Moses because they are of the 12 tribes across the earth.

Revelation 15

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Also consider that the 144,000 of the 12 tribes are considered 1st fruits of the harvest that are gathered and presented to God. If you have acceptable 1st fruits that means there will be a harvest. And that harvest will be the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman.

Revleation 14

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

There is no connection between any of the OT harvests and the resurrection.  And all of Rev 14:14-20 is about the Tribulation.

"Revelation 14

¹⁸ And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

Here are the righteous of the 12 tribes that are harvested in Revelation 14."

The subject here is the produce "of the vine of the EARTH".  

The following explains what the sharp sickle is for:

18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” 

19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. 

20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

This is all part of the context for v.14-16.  It is all about the same thing.

There is no resurrection, much less a "rapture".

Again, there are no verses that describe Jesus taking resurrected/glorified believers to heaven.

 

 

[The Light]

9 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

There is no connection between any of the OT harvests and the resurrection.

 And all of Rev 14:14-20 is about the Tribulation.

Those verses in Revelation 14 are the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. It is also the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. In other words, the coming in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal. We know that because of the signs of the sun, moon and stars. Also, it occurs immediately AFTER the tribulation. So you saying that those verses in 14 are about the tribulation is incorrect because as we can see, the tribulation is over.

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

 

9 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

"Revelation 14

¹⁸ And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

Here are the righteous of the 12 tribes that are harvested in Revelation 14."

The subject here is the produce "of the vine of the EARTH".  

The following explains what the sharp sickle is for:

18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” 

19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. 

20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

This is all part of the context for v.14-16.  It is all about the same thing.

There is no resurrection, much less a "rapture".

Again, there are no verses that describe Jesus taking resurrected/glorified believers to heaven.

 

 

You seem to be leaving out the part where the righteous are gathered. The verses you show has the ANGEL swinging the sickle. You need to understand that Jesus also swings His sickle for the righteous.

Revelation 14

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

[FreeGrace]

12 hours ago, The Light said:

Those verses in Revelation 14 are the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. It is also the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. In other words, the coming in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal. We know that because of the signs of the sun, moon and stars. Also, it occurs immediately AFTER the tribulation. So you saying that those verses in 14 are about the tribulation is incorrect because as we can see, the tribulation is over.

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

 

You seem to be leaving out the part where the righteous are gathered. The verses you show has the ANGEL swinging the sickle. You need to understand that Jesus also swings His sickle for the righteous.

Revelation 14

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

The Bible is very clear about there being only ONE resurrection of the saved, and one of the unsaved.  Dan 12:2, John 5:29 and Acts 24:15.  

The Bible is also very clear about WHEN that single resurrection occurs:  "when He comes", which is the Second Advent.  1 Cor 15:23 and 2 Thess 2:1.

So, one would have to argue that Rev 14 is about the Second Advent., if there is a "rapture" there.  

And, there are no verses that describe Jesus taking resurrected glorified saints to heaven.

My view about Rev 14 is firm;  it's about the battle of Armageddon.  Just before Jesus comes back to earth to reign for 1,000 years.

[The Light]

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

The Bible is very clear about there being only ONE resurrection of the saved, and one of the unsaved.  Dan 12:2, John 5:29 and Acts 24:15.  

Daniel 2

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Acts 24

15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

There are the verses you mentioned. They don't seem to say there is only one resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous.

 

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

The Bible is also very clear about WHEN that single resurrection occurs:  "when He comes", which is the Second Advent.  1 Cor 15:23 and 2 Thess 2:1.

1 Corinthians 15

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

First off there are not any verses that say there will be a single resurrection. 

Every man in his order. Christ the firstfruits, afterward they that are Chists at His coming. What you don't understand is that Christ comes before the seals are opened for His Church. He comes again at the 6th seal. And we have 144,000 first fruits before the throne. That means there will be a harvest as we have acceptable first fruits. Then Christ comes again when He sets His feet on the Mount of Olives.

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

So, one would have to argue that Rev 14 is about the Second Advent., if there is a "rapture" there.  

Jesus comes in Revelation 14, which occurs at the 6th seal, which is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 but that is not the second advent. The second advent is when Jesus touches the earth. But the coming of Jesus in Revelation 14, at the 6th seal, Jesus sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Jesus remains in the clouds and does not touch the earth.

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

And, there are no verses that describe Jesus taking resurrected glorified saints to heaven.

Revelation 4

4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

My view about Rev 14 is firm;

Some flat earthers told me the same thing. Being firm is not being right.

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

 it's about the battle of Armageddon.  Just before Jesus comes back to earth to reign for 1,000 years.

The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 is the second harvest. Jesus will send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

[FreeGrace]

8 hours ago, The Light said:

The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 is the second harvest. Jesus will send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

The resurrection of the saved is not referred to as a "harvest".  There is only one resurrection.  It will occur at the Second Advent, as already shown from Scripture.

[The Light]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

The resurrection of the saved is not referred to as a "harvest".  There is only one resurrection.  It will occur at the Second Advent, as already shown from Scripture.

Feel free to post that scripture as I posted all those you listed and didn't see that.

Why is it that many of them that sleep in the ground are raised at this point? Some to everlasting life and some to everlasting contempt. Why not all?

Daniel 12

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

[FreeGrace]

29 minutes ago, The Light said:

Feel free to post that scripture as I posted all those you listed and didn't see that.

Why is it that many of them that sleep in the ground are raised at this point? Some to everlasting life and some to everlasting contempt. Why not all?

Daniel 12

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

I have already quoted the verses about the single resurrection of the saved.  Didn't you read my post??  Here they are again:  Dan 12:2, John 5:29, Acts 24:15.  All speak of resurrection in the singular.

Can you quote any verse that speaks of the resurrection of the saved in the plural?

The phrase about "sleeping in the ground" is simply a reference to DEAD BODIES, which will raise up at the resurrection, both of the saved and the unsaved.  However, the souls of the saved are in heaven and the souls of the unsaved are in Hades, awaiting their resurrection.

[The Light]

7 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I have already quoted the verses about the single resurrection of the saved.  Didn't you read my post??

Of course, I did. Didn't you read my post. I posted all the scriptures you listed. 12/8/2022 9:25 AM.

7 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

 Here they are again:  Dan 12:2, John 5:29, Acts 24:15.  All speak of resurrection in the singular.

I'll repost the scriptures again. 

Daniel 2

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Acts 24

15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

There are the verses you mentioned. They don't seem to say there is only one resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous.

7 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Can you quote any verse that speaks of the resurrection of the saved in the plural?

1 Corinthians 15

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

It requires an understanding that Christ comes more than once that many people seem to be blind to. However, those that are Christs at His coming will be caught up.

1. Christ will come first for the dead in Christ. The barley harvest.

2. Christ will come for the alive Church that remains. The wheat harvest. It will be like the days of Noah where Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. It occurs at the trump of God or voice of God

3. Christ will come for the 144,000 first fruits of the fall fruit harvest.

4. Christ will come for the seed of the woman at the fall fruit harvest at the end of the age at the 6th seal. It will be like the days of Lot, where the very day Lot left Sodom destruction comes. It will occur at the last trump blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

5. Christ will come again for Armageddon and the judgement.

7 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

The phrase about "sleeping in the ground" is simply a reference to DEAD BODIES, which will raise up at the resurrection, both of the saved and the unsaved.  However, the souls of the saved are in heaven and the souls of the unsaved are in Hades, awaiting their resurrection.

I was really referring to the fact that Daniel said many of them that sleep in the ground shall be raised.

Why does it not say ALL that sleep in the ground shall be raised? It does qualify that some are raised to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Daniel 2

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.