Could there be Multiple Raptures?

[Vine Abider]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Great question.

My answer might not satisfy you, but here goes.

The parable of the Ten Virgins starts with; "1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom." (Mt 25:1)

The parable is well known to you. The Virgins are, in seven or eight points, identical. They partake of the same resurrection, but in the judgment they are told to

"9 ... but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves"

Now, the wise Virgins bought extra oil during their lifetime. Their lifetime was on earth. The sellers of oil must be on earth. The oil was not bought in a day by the wise Virgins. A hefty price was paid - the soul. But it was the age of grace. Now, five virgins must seek out the same road and price, but in an adverse atmosphere. So it is reasonable to say that if it took a wise Virgin 30 years to buy the extra oil, it will not take less. If you don't like 30, then take any number you like. Fact is, some time goes by.

Then, having bought oil for their Vessels, they return to where the Wedding Feast is. This indicates that the Wedding Feast is still in progress. the foolish Virgins are refused entry based now on new criteria. They are unknown to the Lord. The Greek word "know" is "oida". It means; "know by perception". That is, the Lord had seen so little of them in their lifetimes, He did not quite recognize them. It was like an arranged marriage. The groom never sees the Bride until the day. So two questions arise;
1. How long are the Virgins banned. Well, it does not say, except that the whole matter is "likened to the Kingdom", and the Kingdom is 1,000 years
2. How will the Lord lift the reason for the ban if they are outside the door and not let in. He never gets to see them!

Is this not an indication that the wedding Feast is 1,000 years long and that the foolish Virgins never gain entry. If we add one more fact, we can seal our conclusion. That is, when does God wipe away the tears from this? Only when New Jerusalem is revealed! (Rev.21:4). If it were only matter of oil then we could be generous to the foolish Virgins. If it is a matter of the kingdom, we must look there for numbers. And if it is a matter of REWARD, little hope exist for the foolish Virgins of a lessening of the ban. A Reward must be felt.

What think ye brother?

Interesting points.  But do we know the wedding feast lasts the whole thousand years?  I know this is one perception, but I've not seen the verses that support this notion. And is there anything that specifically shows the foolish virgins would be outside the whole time, even if it was?  I used to buy into that teaching, but I've just not seen scripture that specifically supports the full thousand year span for the wedding feast, or any specific time measurement.  And as said, over on another Christian forum, we beat that horse pretty hard for quite some time . . .

[AdHoc]

12 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Interesting points.  But do we know the wedding feast lasts the whole thousand years?  I know this is one perception, but I've not seen the verses that support this notion. And is there anything that specifically shows the foolish virgins would be outside the whole time, even if it was?  I used to buy into that teaching, but I've just not seen scripture that specifically supports the full thousand year span for the wedding feast, or any specific time measurement.  And as said, over on another Christian forum, we beat that horse pretty hard for quite some time . . .

You're correct, there are no direct statements. There is actually very little said of conditions in the Millennium in the New Testament. Studying it is like being a detective who only has circumstantial evidence.

[DeighAnn]

14 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Now, let's leave all other debate and you take all the time you like to show that (i) the Church has no AGE,

Why would I show the church has NO AGE when you have failed to show it does, except as conclusion of man?  To explain 'why there isn't' what you say is.    

You must realize you produced not one word of God stating 'the church' has an age, just produced A CONCLUSION based upon what is written, (no doubt because of the pre trib rap that depends upon these changes). Anyway

in the ages to come - will 'the church' disappear or just the 'designation' of the word 'church'?  are we or are we not being made into kings and priests for the age to come? - do we not receive eternal life?  will Gods grace cease to exist?

So, MY PROBLEM isn't with THE AGE, nor is it with THIS AGE ending and a NEW AGE being born, 

My problem is in 'changing what the age is called'.  

You PROVED your own point when you showed you were teaching BY CONCLUSION as nowhere in the words of God is 'church age' written, and it is not taught as a doctrine either, HENCE it is a doctrine of man, accepted by men, taught by men.

That is called ADDING to the words of God

The first change was the changing of 'the who' the church is. Next, was the re-naming of the age, finally was the adding of a pre trib rapture.  NONE OF IT WRITTEN by the words of God. 


The CHURCH began and will end with those Christ came for. Those He came to call, those who hear His voice and follow Him and who none will be lost.  AND as ALWAYS, the 'stranger' may be grafted in.  So, not only all the House of Israel but 
ALL gentiles are to be welcomed

Luke 1
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And HE shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
 

The HOUSE OF JACOB consists of all the tribes aka BOTH houses.  The house of Judah and the House of Israel AND all who, in Christ, become Abraham's seed and heirs of the promises aka THE HOUSE OF JACOB.

Christ came for the 'scattered sheep of the House of Israel' and since THEY had become a part of 'the gentiles' when sifted through and scattered to the world,  THEY were/are the 'gentiles' that heard/hear His voice and became/become 'the church' along with whomsoever would.  

AND SINCE HE SHALL REIGN OVER THE HOUSE OF JACOB FOREVER, there is no 'end' of the church, there is no 'church age' to end and 'church age' as you yourself have proved, is nothing more than a conclusion of man and not the words of God. 

 

15 hours ago, AdHoc said:

The phrase, "ages to come" implies that the Church is in an AGE now.

Proves the point - IMPLIES and with the wrong implication?  All that follows is fruit of the poisonous tree.  
 

15 hours ago, AdHoc said:

If you do not post a commentary on the correct meaning of these scriptures, I will take it that you seek only conflict and give no credence to the meaning of words and grammar.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?


Which TAKES us back to the VERY BEGINNING when we were taught, THERE IS A WAR GOING ON and it will be until the end and the DAY of VENGEANCE is when all will be made right and the war will come to an end.  
13  And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

14  And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15  And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16  Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

As we live and die in this world there will always be evil that comes against us BUT the end is coming and when it does, FIRST the tares will be addressed, and then the wheat aka those who are alive and remaining will be changed.    

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

THIS AGE, THE AGE IN WHICH BOTH GOOD AND EVIL ARE BORN AND EXIST WILL BE COMING TO AN END.  We can't call it the 'church age' because that IMPLIES that there is only one thing going on.  

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Christ is returning for the 2nd Advent to sit upon the throne of David and He is coming and COMPLETELY taking over by putting down evil and elevating good and then ruling with a rod of Iron.  There will be NO DEATH as everyone will be in spiritual bodies as NO ONE who took the mark of the beast will survive.  Hence the RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.  
 

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

No harvest 'in stages', nothing pre trib harvested, but BOTH grow together until the END, not the end of the 'church age' but the END OF THE AGE.  



Matt 24

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

WHAT can I say?  NO CHURCH AGE MENTIONED.  I thought maybe it is a translation issue so I went to see it in the Greek way

{as} was sitting now He upon the Mount of Olives, came to Him the disciples in private, saying "Tell us when these things will be.  And what the sign of Your coming and the consummation of the age".

AGAIN, no CHURCH AGE mentioned but the ENTIRE AGE OF living life without the Lord dwelling amonst us and the tares living how ever they wanted under the influence of their father.  The kingdom of Heaven proclaimed by John the Baptist having been rejected when the KING was killed, WILL END this age of the kingdoms under the prince of the power of the air and all will become HIS.  

You have ASSIGNED it as 'the church age' and that is BECAUSE of the pre trib doctrine.  What else REQUIRES a 'church' age? 

Don't you see how the AGE doesn't end PRE TRIB, just the "supposed church age" does?

Do you realize when Christ returns 'the age' of the SEPARATION of the SEEN AND UNSEEN WORLDS ENDS?

11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The 'church' doesn't end because the 'church' are GODS CHILDREN, and they are of the kingdom of Heaven of which there is no end.  




Ephesians 2
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

We are resurrected out from the dead of this world, EVEN BEFORE the 'earthen vessel' breaks.  We are made a NEW CREATURE, we begin LIVING our spiritual life and feeding our spiritual man, our 'inner man', and are no longer like the 'dead' of this world destined to die

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

these are the tares, of the world, the DEAD with the spirit of death that works in them.  When the Harvest comes, they will be gathered and burned and the alive and remaining will be changed.  The Harvest comes ALL AT THE SAME TIME and not in any 'stages'.  That is only a 'conclusion' man has made and is never written in the words of God.  

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by THE WORDS OF GOD and we live not by bread alone but BY EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of GOD.  And if man adds anything to them, they have stepped off the narrow path, no matter how 'wise' it may sound to the world.  
Gods GRACE NEVER ENDS.  Seasons may come and go, and so may 'ages' but God remains the same. 
 

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

the wheat grains
WE are ALREADY made citizens of the UNSEEN kingdom well before we ever arrive.  BUT we know that being part of that kingdom means that we NEVER DIE and instead of us going into the grave to be amongst the dead, we RISE UP in our spiritual bodies and FOLLOW HIM and He comes to us and receives us unto Himself and brings us to the Father. 

the tares
He is the way and if you don't know HIM you don't know the way to FOLLOW HIM so when your 'earthen vessel' breaks you go down to the grave where you become a captive of death, a prisoner of hell where death feeds off of you as you are stuck in the corruption of the earth awaiting the return of Christ in which you HOPEFULLY will be amongst the resurrection of the dead and given the chance to get your name written in the book of life by the works you will do over the next 1000 years.  

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

This age of GOOD VS EVIL is going to end and the age of GOOD TEACHES evil will begin.  That age is going to end with 'the dead being tested and judged to eternal life or 2nd death in the lake of fire. 

That age is going to end with the NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH and 'IN THE BEGINNING God created the New Heaven and New Earth...


Not really all that much different than
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

(and that light shined upon AN EARTH that was sitting in darkness, and in chaos, and that was null and void and GODS WORD tells us HE DIDN'T CREATE IT THAT WAY)


32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

The House of Judah, Those who haven't been saved, Those who have been saved.


Is that commentary?  IDK.  I think you would agree it is time for us to 'separate' again for a while.  I will make this my last post in 'multiple raptures' as I can't think of anything I haven't yet said.  I TRULY did my best to answer your questions, if I didn't all I can say is I'm sorry, maybe another day...I will read any comments you make and only if something 'new' is brought forth reply but other than that I wish you well and still pray that HIS TRUTH be revealed, not ours.

May God bless our efforts...
 

[Vine Abider]

May I make a suggestion to a few posters on here?  I hope no one is offended, but here goes - when exceptionally long posts are made, at least to me, I find they are laborious to read through them completely.  One post I copied into a Word doc and it was 6 pages with nearly 2,500 words!

Could I suggest keeping replies to perhaps a few paragraphs of no more than 500 words or so?  I think that you would do yourself a big favor, in that more people would actually read through the whole post then.  Pick a key point or two and address it  with a few thoughts and verses. Then others will be able to more readily read it and respond in a more effective manner. 

Hopefully y-all will take this as truth spoken in love. - Thank you!

Any feedback regarding this idea?

Edited November 5, 2022 by Vine Abider

[Alive]

1 minute ago, Vine Abider said:

May I make a suggestion to a few posters on here?  I hope no one is offended, but here goes - when exceptionally long posts are made, at least to me, I find they are laborious to read through them completely.  One post I copied into a Word doc and it was 6 pages with nearly 2,500 words!

Could I suggest keeping replies to perhaps a few paragraphs of no more than 500 words or so?  I think that you would do yourself a big favor, in that more people would actually read through the whole post then.  Pick a key point or two and address it  with a few thoughts and verses. Then others will be able to more readily read it and respond in a more effective manner. 

Hopefully y-all will take this as truth spoken in love. - Thank you!

Any feedback regarding this idea?

Good luck, but a worthy effort my friend.

:-)

[Alive]

4 hours ago, AdHoc said:

You're correct, there are no direct statements. There is actually very little said of conditions in the Millennium in the New Testament. Studying it is like being a detective who only has circumstantial evidence.

Ya--filling in the blanks is a perilous undertaking and best left to the pros. SIC.

TFIC

Edited November 5, 2022 by Alive
typo

[Selah7]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

May I make a suggestion to a few posters on here?  I hope no one is offended, but here goes - when exceptionally long posts are made, at least to me, I find they are laborious to read through them completely.  One post I copied into a Word doc and it was 6 pages with nearly 2,500 words!

Could I suggest keeping replies to perhaps a few paragraphs of no more than 500 words or so?  I think that you would do yourself a big favor, in that more people would actually read through the whole post then.  Pick a key point or two and address it  with a few thoughts and verses. Then others will be able to more readily read it and respond in a more effective manner. 

Hopefully y-all will take this as truth spoken in love. - Thank you!

Any feedback regarding this idea?

You are entirely correct. From my vantage point, I've noticed that two posters will often behave like competitors in a ring who are solely focused on each other and unconcerned in anyone else. As a result, there is no effective teaching and the Word of God is not presented with respect.

Selah 

[AdHoc]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Why would I show the church has NO AGE when you have failed to show it does, except as conclusion of man?  To explain 'why there isn't' what you say is.    

You must realize you produced not one word of God stating 'the church' has an age, just produced A CONCLUSION based upon what is written, (no doubt because of the pre trib rap that depends upon these changes). Anyway

in the ages to come - will 'the church' disappear or just the 'designation' of the word 'church'?  are we or are we not being made into kings and priests for the age to come? - do we not receive eternal life?  will Gods grace cease to exist?

So, MY PROBLEM isn't with THE AGE, nor is it with THIS AGE ending and a NEW AGE being born, 

My problem is in 'changing what the age is called'.  

You PROVED your own point when you showed you were teaching BY CONCLUSION as nowhere in the words of God is 'church age' written, and it is not taught as a doctrine either, HENCE it is a doctrine of man, accepted by men, taught by men.

That is called ADDING to the words of God

The first change was the changing of 'the who' the church is. Next, was the re-naming of the age, finally was the adding of a pre trib rapture.  NONE OF IT WRITTEN by the words of God. 


The CHURCH began and will end with those Christ came for. Those He came to call, those who hear His voice and follow Him and who none will be lost.  AND as ALWAYS, the 'stranger' may be grafted in.  So, not only all the House of Israel but 
ALL gentiles are to be welcomed

Luke 1
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And HE shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
 

The HOUSE OF JACOB consists of all the tribes aka BOTH houses.  The house of Judah and the House of Israel AND all who, in Christ, become Abraham's seed and heirs of the promises aka THE HOUSE OF JACOB.

Christ came for the 'scattered sheep of the House of Israel' and since THEY had become a part of 'the gentiles' when sifted through and scattered to the world,  THEY were/are the 'gentiles' that heard/hear His voice and became/become 'the church' along with whomsoever would.  

AND SINCE HE SHALL REIGN OVER THE HOUSE OF JACOB FOREVER, there is no 'end' of the church, there is no 'church age' to end and 'church age' as you yourself have proved, is nothing more than a conclusion of man and not the words of God. 

 

Proves the point - IMPLIES and with the wrong implication?  All that follows is fruit of the poisonous tree.  
 

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?


Which TAKES us back to the VERY BEGINNING when we were taught, THERE IS A WAR GOING ON and it will be until the end and the DAY of VENGEANCE is when all will be made right and the war will come to an end.  
13  And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

14  And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15  And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16  Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

As we live and die in this world there will always be evil that comes against us BUT the end is coming and when it does, FIRST the tares will be addressed, and then the wheat aka those who are alive and remaining will be changed.    

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

THIS AGE, THE AGE IN WHICH BOTH GOOD AND EVIL ARE BORN AND EXIST WILL BE COMING TO AN END.  We can't call it the 'church age' because that IMPLIES that there is only one thing going on.  

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Christ is returning for the 2nd Advent to sit upon the throne of David and He is coming and COMPLETELY taking over by putting down evil and elevating good and then ruling with a rod of Iron.  There will be NO DEATH as everyone will be in spiritual bodies as NO ONE who took the mark of the beast will survive.  Hence the RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.  
 

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

No harvest 'in stages', nothing pre trib harvested, but BOTH grow together until the END, not the end of the 'church age' but the END OF THE AGE.  



Matt 24

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

WHAT can I say?  NO CHURCH AGE MENTIONED.  I thought maybe it is a translation issue so I went to see it in the Greek way

{as} was sitting now He upon the Mount of Olives, came to Him the disciples in private, saying "Tell us when these things will be.  And what the sign of Your coming and the consummation of the age".

AGAIN, no CHURCH AGE mentioned but the ENTIRE AGE OF living life without the Lord dwelling amonst us and the tares living how ever they wanted under the influence of their father.  The kingdom of Heaven proclaimed by John the Baptist having been rejected when the KING was killed, WILL END this age of the kingdoms under the prince of the power of the air and all will become HIS.  

You have ASSIGNED it as 'the church age' and that is BECAUSE of the pre trib doctrine.  What else REQUIRES a 'church' age? 

Don't you see how the AGE doesn't end PRE TRIB, just the "supposed church age" does?

Do you realize when Christ returns 'the age' of the SEPARATION of the SEEN AND UNSEEN WORLDS ENDS?

11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The 'church' doesn't end because the 'church' are GODS CHILDREN, and they are of the kingdom of Heaven of which there is no end.  




Ephesians 2
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

We are resurrected out from the dead of this world, EVEN BEFORE the 'earthen vessel' breaks.  We are made a NEW CREATURE, we begin LIVING our spiritual life and feeding our spiritual man, our 'inner man', and are no longer like the 'dead' of this world destined to die

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

these are the tares, of the world, the DEAD with the spirit of death that works in them.  When the Harvest comes, they will be gathered and burned and the alive and remaining will be changed.  The Harvest comes ALL AT THE SAME TIME and not in any 'stages'.  That is only a 'conclusion' man has made and is never written in the words of God.  

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by THE WORDS OF GOD and we live not by bread alone but BY EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of GOD.  And if man adds anything to them, they have stepped off the narrow path, no matter how 'wise' it may sound to the world.  
Gods GRACE NEVER ENDS.  Seasons may come and go, and so may 'ages' but God remains the same. 
 

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

the wheat grains
WE are ALREADY made citizens of the UNSEEN kingdom well before we ever arrive.  BUT we know that being part of that kingdom means that we NEVER DIE and instead of us going into the grave to be amongst the dead, we RISE UP in our spiritual bodies and FOLLOW HIM and He comes to us and receives us unto Himself and brings us to the Father. 

the tares
He is the way and if you don't know HIM you don't know the way to FOLLOW HIM so when your 'earthen vessel' breaks you go down to the grave where you become a captive of death, a prisoner of hell where death feeds off of you as you are stuck in the corruption of the earth awaiting the return of Christ in which you HOPEFULLY will be amongst the resurrection of the dead and given the chance to get your name written in the book of life by the works you will do over the next 1000 years.  

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

This age of GOOD VS EVIL is going to end and the age of GOOD TEACHES evil will begin.  That age is going to end with 'the dead being tested and judged to eternal life or 2nd death in the lake of fire. 

That age is going to end with the NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH and 'IN THE BEGINNING God created the New Heaven and New Earth...


Not really all that much different than
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

(and that light shined upon AN EARTH that was sitting in darkness, and in chaos, and that was null and void and GODS WORD tells us HE DIDN'T CREATE IT THAT WAY)


32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

The House of Judah, Those who haven't been saved, Those who have been saved.


Is that commentary?  IDK.  I think you would agree it is time for us to 'separate' again for a while.  I will make this my last post in 'multiple raptures' as I can't think of anything I haven't yet said.  I TRULY did my best to answer your questions, if I didn't all I can say is I'm sorry, maybe another day...I will read any comments you make and only if something 'new' is brought forth reply but other than that I wish you well and still pray that HIS TRUTH be revealed, not ours.

May God bless our efforts...
 

Your posting is read and noted.

[seeking the lost]

On 10/29/2022 at 5:53 PM, Vine Abider said:

I've read a couple interesting books lately, putting forth the idea of more than just one rapture.  This thought seems to reconcile verses  appearing to show a post-trib rapture, while other verses  appear to show a pre-trib one.  One book I read, "Worthy to Escape," referred to these two raptures as "first fruit" and "harvest," going off the Old Testament practices depicted in a number of passages.  That is, some fruit ripened earlier, and was taken directly into the temple.  However, the harvest fruit required the full summer's heat to ripen. 

Has this viewpoint been discussed on here before and is there merit to it?

I would worry about adding to the scripture.  We are warned that those who add to the scriptures will be in a lot of trouble.  The rapture follows the resurrection, there is only one time that will happen.

[Vine Abider]

20 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

I would worry about adding to the scripture.  We are warned that those who add to the scriptures will be in a lot of trouble.  The rapture follows the resurrection, there is only one time that will happen.

That is certainly a good warning! So what verses are you referring to that are being added, or that support your view of one rapture?  There are three main rapture views (pre, mid & post-trib), and I don't think any of them are "adding to scripture." That is, very smart and educated people, who study these things in depth, arrive at each view for what they genuinely believe is supported in scripture.

My question looks to bring up another option - what if most or all of these views are right, that is, what if there are multiple raptures?  For example, I can present verses stating there are conditions given for some raptures.  That is, a believer must do something before they can be included in that rapture.  This inherently means some believers won't be included in that rapture - meaning there must be more than one rapture.

BTW: It's much like the Calvinism (predestination) vs. Armenianism (free will) debate - several scriptures can be referenced supporting each view.  Which are these two views are right? In my reading, both free will and predestination are there and both are right.  Do we have to fit it neatly in our conceptual box and understand it before we accept it as true?  No,  I choose to believe that both are correct because they both are in scripture, whether I understand it or not, and one day He will show us how that works exactly. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Vine Abider