Are you saved but believe you would have been damned had you died before you were saved?

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

If a person dies and that person is unsaved and not a believer of Jesus Christ that person will go to hell. That is biblical. 

The only humans that would automatically go to heaven would be the infants and small children.

A person can be saved up until the last second they are alive. If they genuinely ask Jesus Christ into their life before they take their last breath they will be saved and go to heaven. Although there could be consequences. I don't know what their judgment or rewards would look like. 

I cannot agree with the whole of your post..

But reading the scriptures I understand that anyone whose sins are forgiven by faith in Jesus, he is in the righteousness of Jesus. 

Because all the time that he believes in Jesus for the forgiveness of his sins he is in the righteousness of Jesus...having not a righteousness of our own but the righteousness that is by faith in Jesus Christ. 

This is the foundation. 

And the most important and relevant matter is, that anyone who dies believing that Jesus died for the forgiveness of his sins is with Jesus...Abraham's children were gathered to him at their physical death, they were gathered to their Patriarch Abraham and nothing could separate them. 

Do you have any reason to believe that the children of Jesus are not gathered to him in Heaven at the time of their physical death? 

 

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I cannot agree with the whole of your post..

But reading the scriptures I understand that anyone whose sins are forgiven by faith in Jesus, he is in the righteousness of Jesus. 

Because all the time that he believes in Jesus for the forgiveness of his sins he is in the righteousness of Jesus...having not a righteousness of our own but the righteousness that is by faith in Jesus Christ. 

This is the foundation. 

And the most important and relevant matter is, that anyone who dies believing that Jesus died for the forgiveness of his sins is with Jesus...Abraham's children were gathered to him at their physical death, they were gathered to their Patriarch Abraham and nothing could separate them. 

Do you have any reason to believe that the children of Jesus are not gathered to him in Heaven at the time of their physical death? 

 

I did  say that all those who are true believers will go to heaven. Where do you think the unbelievers go when they die? Where do you think the true believers go when they die? In your opinion what happens to the body and soul when they die?

[Your closest friendnt]

40 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

I did  say that all those who are true believers will go to heaven. Where do you think the unbelievers go when they die? Where do you think the true believers go when they die? In your opinion what happens to the body and soul when they die?

You know that I never put an adjective before the word believer...I always mantain the position that all believers must have their sins forgiven by the blood of Jesus. 

And the disciples of Jesus never did...whether they preached to the Jews or the Gentiles. 

So the answer to the question about what happened to the believers when they died it has been answer by Jesus disciples long time ago...And you may say how so.

The disciples believe what all the seed of Abraham believe, and that's why they called Abraham their Patriarch and their Father because they were his children. 

They believe that at the time of their physical death Abraham will welcome them into his Bosom...

But when the disciples began to learn from Jesus and when they began to preach the Gospel, they did that with another set of beliefs. 

They were preaching that both Jews or Gentiles who are believers in Jesus that at he time of their physical death both Jews and Gentiles are gathered to Jesus Christ where he is, And Jesus is in Heaven. 

You are going to find nothing else in their teachings.

Because they understood how greater is Jesus from Abraham.  

They are two erroneous statements in your post that you are using them as foundation to build on.

One is to use an adjective when we are referring to those whose sins are forgiven in the.blood of Jesus. 

It a huge departure from the truth to say that only those who have proven down the road that they have forgiveness of their sins. That they live their lives as believers without having their sins forgiven till the time when they will be clarified as true believers and then they will have their sins forgiven and be saved from the condemnation of their sins.. 

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, missmuffet said:

I did  say that all those who are true believers will go to heaven. Where do you think the unbelievers go when they die? Where do you think the true believers go when they die? In your opinion what happens to the body and soul when they die?

In your first paragraph your posting " they  will go to Heaven" it suggests that it is a future even to happened at some time and not that will happen when the person at the time of his physical death he will bow down to Jesus before his Throne who will decide the eternal state of the person according to having forgiveness of sins in his name or not...

It seems from your wording that there is a gap of considerable time from the death of a believer till the time of his bowing down before Jesus who will decide his eternal state according to his faith in him... 

And that without filling the blanc(s) of his where abouts toll the day to appeared before Jesus to decide his eternity..,

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, missmuffet said:

I did  say that all those who are true believers will go to heaven. Where do you think the unbelievers go when they die? Where do you think the true believers go when they die? In your opinion what happens to the body and soul when they die?

There are more questions in your post..and you should include in a separate group to what happened to those who belong to a special group and who for the reason that they died without having heard the good news there is no faith found in them, faith in Jesus but also there is not denial found in them and they died that way...

Those people can't be included together with the believers and because they do not have faith registered in their heart to have forgiveness of their sins in Jesus, and they also cannot be found together with the group who died while refusing to believe in Jesus for the forgivenes of their sins...

Because they have never refused to believe in Jesus...

The unbelievers have refused to believe but those people they have never refused to believe...

The question is what Jesus will do with them, because it was forknew by him that there will be a group like them.

The Gospel says: those who believe in Jesus are not in their sins and those who do not believe in Jesus and die this way they die in their sins...

To say to someone you do not believe or you have refused to believe that it includes that the person has made a conscious decision not to believe and while the invitation continuously is extended to him till the time of his death, he has decided not to believe and met his death that way. 

We cannot say that those who have never heard the Gospel that they have received the invitation to believe in Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins or that they have refused to believe in Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins...when they have never been informed about Jesus. 

[missmuffet]

39 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

There are more questions in your post..and you should include in a separate group to what happened to those who belong to a special group and who for the reason that they died without having heard the good news there is no faith found in them, faith in Jesus but also there is not denial found in them and they died that way...

Those people can't be included together with the believers and because they do not have faith registered in their heart to have forgiveness of their sins in Jesus, and they also cannot be found together with the group who died while refusing to believe in Jesus for the forgivenes of their sins...

Because they have never refused to believe in Jesus...

The unbelievers have refused to believe but those people they have never refused to believe...

The question is what Jesus will do with them, because it was forknew by him that there will be a group like them.

The Gospel says: those who believe in Jesus are not in their sins and those who do not believe in Jesus and die this way they die in their sins...

To say to someone you do not believe or you have refused to believe that it includes that the person has made a conscious decision not to believe and while the invitation continuously is extended to him till the time of his death, he has decided not to believe and met his death that way. 

We cannot say that those who have never heard the Gospel that they have received the invitation to believe in Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins or that they have refused to believe in Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins...when they have never been informed about Jesus. 

It looks like your issue it about those who have never heard the Gospel or Jesus Christ.

What happens to those who have never heard about Jesus?

https://www.gotquestions.org

ANSWER

All people are accountable to God whether or not they have “heard about Him.” The Bible tells us that God has clearly revealed Himself in nature (Romans 1:20) and in the hearts of people (Ecclesiastes 3:11). The problem is that the human race is sinful; we all reject this knowledge of God and rebel against Him (Romans 1:21-23). If it were not for God’s grace, we would be given over to the sinful desires of our hearts, allowing us to discover how useless and miserable life is apart from Him. He does this for those who continually reject Him (Romans 1:24-32).

 

 

In reality, it is not that some people have not heard about God. Rather, the problem is that they have rejected what they have heard and what is readily seen in nature. Deuteronomy 4:29 proclaims, “But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.” This verse teaches an important principle—everyone who truly seeks after God will find Him. If a person truly desires to know God, God will make Himself known.

The problem is “there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God” (Romans 3:11). People reject the knowledge of God that is present in nature and in their own hearts, and instead decide to worship a “god” of their own creation. It is foolish to debate the fairness of God sending someone to hell who never had the opportunity to hear the gospel of Christ. People are responsible to God for what God has already revealed to them. The Bible says that people reject this knowledge, and therefore God is just in condemning them to hell.

Instead of debating the fate of those who have never heard, we, as Christians, should be doing our best to make sure they do hear. We are called to spread the gospel throughout the nations (Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 1:8). We know people reject the knowledge of God revealed in nature, and that must motivate us to proclaim the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ. Only by accepting God’s grace through the Lord Jesus Christ can people be saved from their sins and rescued from an eternity apart from God.

If we assume that those who never hear the gospel are granted mercy from God, we lose our motivation for evangelism. We also run into a terrible problem. If people who never hear the gospel are automatically saved, then it is logical to make sure no one ever hears the gospel—because then there would be a chance they will reject it and be condemned.

 

The Bible is clear that those who perish without Christ will face an eternity in hell. Jesus’ mandate to evangelize the whole world is still in force. People need to call on the name of the Lord, but “how . . . can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent?” (Romans 10:14–15). Those who have never heard about Jesus Christ desperately need to hear, and that caused Paul to exclaim, “Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!” (1 Corinthians 9:16).

Edited November 15, 2022 by missmuffet

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

In your first paragraph your posting " they  will go to Heaven" it suggests that it is a future even to happened at some time and not that will happen when the person at the time of his physical death he will bow down to Jesus before his Throne who will decide the eternal state of the person according to having forgiveness of sins in his name or not...

It seems from your wording that there is a gap of considerable time from the death of a believer till the time of his bowing down before Jesus who will decide his eternal state according to his faith in him... 

And that without filling the blanc(s) of his where abouts toll the day to appeared before Jesus to decide his eternity..,

When an believer dies they will immediately be before Jesus Christ and in heaven. When an unbeliever dies they will be immediately in Hades which is a temporary holding area for them before the Great White Throne judgment. 

[Your closest friendnt]

4 hours ago, missmuffet said:

I did  say that all those who are true believers will go to heaven. Where do you think the unbelievers go when they die? Where do you think the true believers go when they die? In your opinion what happens to the body and soul when they die?

About the  believers in Jesus and their Inheritance in Jesus Christ. 

The disciples of Jesus were born and raised under the Law of Moses.

Because of their blood Inheritance and their obedience to the Covenant of Circumcision which was codified in the Law of Moses they were the children of Abraham and thus heirs of the promises made to Abraham and to his children and their children's children after them.

At death they looked forwards to be gathered to their Patriarch Abraham to the place the Lord had appointed to him and to his children after their phycical death. And that it was in the earth and separated from the rest of the people in the world. 

The disciples grew up with this hope till they met Jesus. 

This what they believe when their physical body dies they were going to their Father and Patriarch Abraham.  

Make it simple, no everyone died the same way or his dead body was deal the  same way but they had their peace that they are going to their Patriarch and Father Abraham...

Abraham was waiting for them...Abraham welcome all his children and David was one of them.  

So this is what the disciples were expecting to happen to them till the time Jesus told them that at the time of their death they will not be gathered to Abraham but they will be gathered to him...

Jesus did not say anything against Abraham because he had told them that Abraham and his children with him will be gathered to the Heavenly Father in his name and that is right after Jesus death on the Cross when the Lord went to them and gathered them unto his name and unto himself right after his death on the Cross when Jesus descended to the place of the dead of Abraham and his seed and to the place where the dead of the world were kept...in Hades. 

When Jesus taught his disciples and let them know that at their death they will be gathered to him that included that they will be gathered to Heaven and to the Heavenly Father because that's where he was going after his death and resurrection and that what happened at the day of the ascension. 

About Abraham the disciples were expecting to meet him in Heaven because Jesus took him and everyone with him to Heaven to the Heavenly Father...in his name...when Jesus went to them they welcome him and they were on him, from that time on, in his name, in Jesus...who took them to their Heavenly Inheritance.   

This is what the disciples preached to the Jewish believers and to the Israelites in general.

And eventually when they come to understand that there is not distinction between Jews and Gentiles they preached the same thing to the Gentiles that God also has appointed to them the Heaven as their Inheritance. 

 

[farouk]

On 11/12/2022 at 2:45 PM, Marathoner said:

Well said, brother. I fell into despair for many years to the point where I believed that the Lord had abandoned me, but this wasn't true at all. It simply appeared that way to my sensibilities. 

We are clay in the Potter's hand.  

Hi Marathon:

 

The Lord gives the believer a living hope: "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ..." (Titus 2.13)

[Your closest friendnt]

On 11/13/2022 at 7:51 AM, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I must disagree with this.  Scripture doesn't say someone has to deny Christ to go to Hell. We are all born in sin,  and therfore born lost. Hell is already our default destination.  We must intentionally accept Christ's gift of forgiveness in order to go to Heaven. Even those who have never heard of Jesus will be held accountable.  Romans says there are 2 universal truths so that no one can say they have an excuse.  Those are the conscience and creation.  There will be many in Hell who never intentionally denied Christ, but since they never accepted him either,  they went to their default destination. In other words,  you DON'T have to choose Hell to go there,  but you DO have to choose Heaven to go there. 

Jesus Christ have the instructions to go and to preached the Gospel in all Nations and anyone who believes is saved, and everyone who does not believe stands to be condemned. Any one who heard the Gospel preached to him and does not believe stands to be condemned, he is not condemned yet because he is still alive and he may reconsider on another day the message of the Gospel and believe...the door to invitation to believe in Jesus is always open to him as long as he lives still his last moment before he died, he can believe with the ascent in his heart. 

We need to be careful the great commission did not say that everyone in the world is condemned and go and preached the Gospel and those who believe will be saved...

The scripture does not say that the whole world is lost as it is. That the whole world belongs to the Devil, (before the Cross that was the case with the exception of the people of God in the old testament.)

But this is not the truth in the New Testament where Jesus Christ has the Keys of Death and Hades...

Jesus ended their rein and put aside their authority to take the people of the world at death CAPTIVES. 

Before the new Covenant the people of the world were not Judge by Jesus Christ they were takes CAPTIVES waiting for the judgment of Jesus Christ...

You need to identify the group who has not heard the Gospel and have died without having given the opportunity to believe and be able to be judged according to their faith in Jesus or their denial of Jesus at the time of their death...

Jesus said to those who will hear the Gospel from his disciples after his death on the Cross that if you do not believe in me then you will die in your sins...