Is the Beast in Daniel 7 the same Empires as Dan 2?

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On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

I actually put the Beast as dying over Israel at 70 AD, it lived on, just not over Israel

The Roman beast did not die when Jerusalem fell and the children of Israel were scattered into the gentile nations.

The Roman beast nation continued to rule over the children of Israel as slaves and subjects throughout the Empire even after Jerusalem fell. The only children of Israel who escaped were mostly the believing flesh Christian branches who believed the prophecies of Jesus about the 70 AD destruction and wars and then fled.

The Roman beast nation continued to attack the children of Israel through centuries until 1967. 

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

whom God said he made "Dead Men's Bones" in 70 AD according to the Ezekiel 37 Valley of Dry Bones Prophecy.

That prophecy was given during the captivity in Babylon and seems to refer to the time after Babylon and before the resurrection of Jesus and the OT saints in 33 AD 

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

The actual Beast itself, IMHO, received the Mortal Wound via the Church

Yes

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

we overcame them by our blood. In essence, Apollyon was cast into the bottomless pit in 70 AD or around 300 AD when Rome became a Christian Nation.

Satan was thrown down from heaven on the day of Pentecost in 33 AD, after the war in heaven, when "salvation" came, when the "kingdom of God" came, and the "power of his Christ" came, Rev 12:10.

Then the Roman dragon beast nation chases the flesh believing children of Israel into the wilderness of the gentile nations, until 1967. Rev 12.

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

Satan then of course had to try to undermine Rome.

Rome the iron 4th beast gets the power of Satan to rule over the children of Israel.

Satan gives his seat of authority to Rome, Rev 13.

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

The Beast Power thus was never extended Eastward, that is just men not understanding what the Beast was in full, and what made a Nation a Beast in God's eyes. So, I do not agree, at all brother. Some people use this to go down the RCC stuff road, others use it to go down the Islam angle, both are sadly in error.

It could be said, that the RCC, developed pre trib to hide the Bishop of Rome from being the Antichrist.

Even Martin Luther wrote that the Bishop of Rome is the Antichrist.

Pre trib says that the Antichrist is future to us. That would eliminate the Bishop of Rome from the possibilities.

But the statue clearly shows the iron as non-stop continual. Proving that it can ONLY be Caesar and the Bishop of Rome.

Those who say that the Bishop of Rome is not the Antichrist, are defending the Antichrist, hiding him and his deception. 

You don't believe it?

I challenge you.

If he is not the Antichrist beast, then the next ash Wednesday, go down to the RCC church, pledge your faith to the Bishop of Rome (After that, you can call him your "Holy Father"), kneel down to Rome, and get the ash mark on your forehead.

Then go to your congregation and say, "Hey everybody, look at this special mark that I got on my forehead, you should go get one too." 

If the bishop of Rome is not the Antichrist, then you should have no problem.

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

Not at all, take the 4 Beasts and the Statue, take out the 2000 some odd year Church Age and they only then fit together.

Major problem. You cannot "take out" the Pentecost gospel kingdom of Israel/Church age.

The statue is continual. The kingdom age is shown as starting during the initial iron part of the statue. The effect of the Pentecost kingdom on the statue is that it breaks in pieces (legs/toes) and consumes (gospel/translated, Col 1:13) the statue. 

So the statue does show the kingdom coming and existing during the time of the statue of the gentile nations.

You cannot remove it without altering the statue itself.

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

That is what the Mortal Wound means, the Church could not be overcome by the gates of hell as the Beast Kingdoms were overcome by dark entities, we changed Western Civilization from a dark foreboding demon worshiping peoples into nations full of light and the Gospel thus freed our hearts and minds. Read Johnathan Cahn's new book, The Return of the Gods, it is very powerful, so what is now happening to the USA and Europe (started longer ago) is that those same gods are returning into the culture because like a man freed of a demon, when the house becomes empty, he returns 7 fold times as bad, it happens to Cultures and Nations in the same way as Mr. Cahn explains, we pushed God out of or schools, out of our nation, and Abortion (Molech) came back in, there was also a god that was not a woman nor a man, but a god of transition, those old religions had these same thing we are seeing now, these trannies are not new stuff brother. You can see 1 hour clips on Youtube and get all the info you need. I don't know if we can give a link, but just type in: (1:15 min clip here better...SMILE, with Cahn, its 2 hours but he's on for 1 hour and 15 minutes)

The DARK Trinity - The Return Of The Gods WITH/ Jonathan Cahn

So, this is very very deep stuff. Do not forget the Church Age period brother, we brought forth the Mortal Wound and delivered the blow, the Beast kingdoms were overcome in our Western Cultures by the Gospel. Notice the Eastern nations never had this happen in full, the Demonic practices of these Eastern Cultures were never freed in full like we were in the West.

Listen for 10 minutes and you will be hooked, you will listen to all of it lol. It is that deep. P.S. that is why the Disciples were killed (coming from me no him) In  Matt. 24:11 when it says false prophets shall arise, and kill you, that was not fake Christians, as I used to think, that was the "Culture Clash" the Gospel were feeing mankind and thus taking away the patrons from temple leaders of Zeus, Jupiter and other false gods, so they cried unto Rome/Greece leaders etc. and the massacre of Christians by Rome started with one Priestesses cry to kill them. This is why Jesus says you must endure [until the end of ones life] in order to be saved. He was basically telling them do not become a Judas, you must be willing to die to complete your missions. At 20 minutes you will see clearly into the Dark Battle at hand and understand in full what is happening in the USA today.

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

The Sea Beast Arises after he Conquers Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region.

The sea beast rises before he conquers the  children of Israel. His power rises.

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

He had a Mortal Wound for nigh 2000 years or 1700 years etc. etc.

The Roman beast had a mortal wound when the Empire became Christian, 3rd century. He died when the Empire divided into 10, 476 AD.

Then the empire continued in a different form, an image form. Having the form of the empire, without the substance, without the same power of the empire. A remnant, of the sea beast. (Rev 19, if you can accept it)

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

The Earth Beast is the False Prophet,

Caesar and the Bishop of Rome are the false prophets of Caesar worship.

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

who will be a Jewish High Priest like unto Jason (real name Yeshua) under Antiochus, who welcomed Antiochus into the Temple of God to sacrifice a pig unto Zeus, who then mandated that all Jewish peoples become Hellenized, leading unto the Maccabean Revolt. So, the Sea Beast is the Anti-Christ, the 7 Headed Beast has been dead (Mortal Wound) for nigh 2000 years, he thus ONLY ARISES when he is allowed to go forth conquering and thus conquers Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region (The MANY) and that is why the Sea Beast ARISE from the Sea. The 2nd Earth Beast is his False Prophet.

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

There was no Israel in 476 AD.

There was an Israel in 476 AD.

You are thinking that Israel is the material land, which it sometimes is.

But other times it refers to the children of Israel.

Would you say that there were NO children of Israel alive in 476 AD?

There were, but just not in the land that we call Israel.

Just because the children of Israel are not on the land, does not mean that there is no Israel. There is no country of Israel at those times, but there is still the children of Israel among the beast nations and scattered among the gentile nations.

There was Israel during all the time of the statue, but not the country of Israel with Jerusalem restored.

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

You are going down a wrong road brother via the RCC angle. Satan loves giving head fakes, both the RCC angle and the Islam angle are untruths put forth via Satan head-fakes.

Mormons are deceived and evil, as are the SDA (at least deceived) and many other religions. The RCC took the Gospel unto the Western World via the Latin Vulgate for over a 1000 years before tee was an English bible in print. The Leaders became mostly evil, not the Priests per se, as did the Church of England leaders who tortured confessions out of people. So, God sees them likes He sees our Churches, the 7 of Revelation all different problems per se, different issues pe se. Do you not think American Churches have their problems also? Only 50 percent of the Church will be Raptured to heaven at the Pre Trib Rapture. The problem is not just with the RCC "Leaders" my friend, they are many, however this RCC angle is just in error. Its going down a wrong path, many Popes will probably wind up in hell, but many Preachers in the USA may also wind up in hell also. But, the Romans took the Gospel to the whole world for over a 1000 years before there was ever an English bible written. Satan is a crafty liar. He wants to confuse God's TRUTHS which is the End Time Anti-Christ has to be born in Greece and comes to power in the E.U. He desires to DIVIDE the Church. Don't fall for his half truths via the RCC brother. They, like us, have problems, but the Mormons are pure evil. The RCC spread the Gospel for years, we might still be in the ark Ages if not for the Romans my brother. 

Now, did some of the Pagan practices creep in unawares? Of course, but in the USA we follow them also, Santa Clause, Easter Bunny etc. etc. 

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

The Horns end also, you are missing the overall point. The Iron legs END and the Clay and Iron BEGINS (the E.U.).

The toes of the statue extend from and are attached to the feet, without separation.

Both the feet and the toes are the same material, iron and clay.

You can't cut off the toes from the statue timeline.

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

The Head is Rome the 10 horns are Europe 2000 some odd years later. 

The head is Rome, I agree.

The horns are Rome continual to this day, 2000 years later.

The Roman beast nation timeline did not stop and then start again.

Yes, the toes nations still exist, but it is not only Europe, it includes all territories that were in the Empire, including the eastern parts.

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

The 6th Beast DIES (Mortal Wound) the 7th Beast is a MAN who is FREELY GIVEN POWER (means he's elected by Parliament). Western Civilization was freed from Darkness by the Gospels brother, you are missing this. The Beasts were killed off by the light of the Gospel. There also can be NO BEAST over Israel when there is no Israel. You are conflating many things my friend. Do nit let your understandings to override God's truths. I explain as a Prophesy guy the one thing I love more than anything is hearing the Spirit say "You are wrong Ron" because I therefore know I am about to get "THE ANSWER" (Smile). I love being told I am wrong now. BUT......if people are unwilling to hear that (as I was for 30 years) they can not be taught God's truths by His Holy Spirit, it is not possible for God to correct us if we refuse to ever be wrong. Think about it brother. My thinking of 30 years had a lot of WRONG THINK in it, I just started hearing God's voice of correction. And being corrected by an all knowing God is cool. That means He loves us like children, Amen. 

Of course it does brother, of course I have already told why, so there's no use rehashing here and being redundant. 

Israel has been Dead Men's Bones for 400 years by this time brother. Let go of your understandings and just ask God the simple thing I did 7 years ago when He answered my prayer with "Ron, you guys already know it all" (tell you later what the prayer was). Thus I simply asked God, "SHOW ME your truths on the end time Lord". 

The 10 are Clay & Iron, which means they are partly strong and partly weak, but why? Well, Spain, England, France, Germany, Belgium etc. are Strong, and you then have Malta, Luxemburg, The Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia etc. who are PARLY WEAK. It also means these were not Conquered Nations like under Greece or Rome but Nations who in many cases had been around for eons, now forming ONE NATON, but trying to do so via MANY NATIONS, thus you have a weaker rule because you will never get consensus as easy as with One Strong Ruler. But over time they freely give their power over unto ONE MAN (Anti-Christ). 

The Roman Beast goes away via a Mortal Wound. The 10 (Complete Europe Reunited but weaker because they are MANY Nations with many leaders) arise first, THEN the Little Horn or Anti-Christ is born AMIDST the 10 or in Europe.

By the way, the SEED of men in Dan. 2 refers to Royal Marriage Attempts through the ages. Never worked, no matter how they tried, the division remained until Israel was reborn in 1948, THEN within 10 years we had the Council of Rome in the mid 50s formulating the emergence of the European Union. 

Caesar is not the Anti-Christ, he is an End Time Beast. He is cast into hell along with the False Prophet. You need a total rehaul on all things end time brother. 

CONTINUED........

 

[abcdef]

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

Mormons are deceived and evil, as are the SDA (at least deceived) and many other religions.

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

The RCC took the Gospel unto the Western World via the Latin Vulgate for over a 1000 years before tee was an English bible in print.

The RCC kept the Latin version secret, untranslated, and restricted for centuries. I remember back in the 1950's that even at that time the RCC discouraged members from reading the Bible. The priests and the Bishop of Rome, alone, are the interpreters of what was written, they say.

Did you forget that it was death or worse to be caught by the RCC with a copy of any scripture?

How many people died with the blessings of the Bishop of Rome because they translated the scriptures?

And once the scriptures were translated and read, the people who tried to break away from the RCC were killed by the millions.

Why did they break away from the RCC? There are many reasons, but could it have been that they saw that the beast was Rome and the Bishop of Rome was the Caesar Antichrist? As Martin Luther wrote?

We are now only 100 yrs ish from the ending of the Protestant/RCC wars and murders. In some places it is still smoldering, Ireland for example. 

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You are wishing to "gap", skip over, 1900 years of Roman murders and tortures of the children of Israel and gentile spiritual Israel.

You wish to deny any existence of the Roman persecutions from 70 AD, 476 AD, until 1967.

The timeline must stop, have a gap, and then start again, you say.

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What you seem to be doing is saying that the Dan. 2 statue cannot be continual because it does not fit with the pretrib/7 yr/1000 yr theory. So there must be a gap in the statue.

It should instead be seen as, the statue timeline is continual, so how does the pre-trib theory fit into the statue?

The answer is, it doesn't fit. There is no gap where the iron stops and then begins again.

The iron and 4th beast is Rome from the beginning in 63 BC until the iron/clay toes end in 1967.

You see, once someone recognizes that the Roman Caesar/Bishop of Rome beast timeline is continual, it means that the Antichrist can only, only be Caesar and the Bishop of Rome.

So the Antichrist is revealed in 70 AD ish as Caesar, and is revealed as the Bishop of Rome by Martin Luther and the statue of Dan. 2.

Will you continue to say the the Bishop of Rome is not the Antichrist? That the Antichrist will only be future? Defend him if you want to saying that it cannot be him. Just ask any "Roman" Catholic.

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What does pre-trib and preterism have in common? A gap after 70 AD. Both theories deny that the Bishop of Rome is the Antichrist.

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On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

The Leaders became mostly evil, not the Priests per se, as did the Church of England leaders who tortured confessions out of people. So, God sees them likes He sees our Churches, the 7 of Revelation all different problems per se, different issues pe se. Do you not think American Churches have their problems also? Only 50 percent of the Church will be Raptured to heaven at the Pre Trib Rapture. The problem is not just with the RCC "Leaders" my friend, they are many, however this RCC angle is just in error. Its going down a wrong path, many Popes will probably wind up in hell, but many Preachers in the USA may also wind up in hell also. But, the Romans took the Gospel to the whole world for over a 1000 years before there was ever an English bible written. Satan is a crafty liar. He wants to confuse God's TRUTHS which is the End Time Anti-Christ has to be born in Greece and comes to power in the E.U. He desires to DIVIDE the Church. Don't fall for his half truths via the RCC brother. They, like us, have problems, but the Mormons are pure evil. The RCC spread the Gospel for years, we might still be in the ark Ages if not for the Romans my brother. 

Now, did some of the Pagan practices creep in unawares? Of course, but in the USA we follow them also, Santa Clause, Easter Bunny etc. etc. 

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

The Horns end also, you are missing the overall point. The Iron legs END and the Clay and Iron BEGINS (the E.U.).

The legs time period ends when the feet begin to be divided by the clay nations. 

We agree that the 10 iron/clay toes divide in 476 AD.

These are seen as gradual transitions among nations that rule over the children of Israel during the times of the gentiles.

These nations just don't end and then start again.

It is showing gradual transitions of people and nations over centuries and centuries, continual.

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

The Head is Rome the 10 horns are Europe 2000 some odd years later.

The head is Rome, yes.

But the nations divided in the statue are not exclusively Europe. The iron legs and iron/clay feet and toes includes the eastern empire also. You wish to eliminate consideration of the eastern empire also to make pretrib work.

 

On 12/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Revelation Man said:

The 6th Beast DIES (Mortal Wound) the 7th Beast is a MAN who is FREELY GIVEN POWER (means he's elected by Parliament). Western Civilization was freed from Darkness by the Gospels brother, you are missing this. The Beasts were killed off by the light of the Gospel. There also can be NO BEAST over Israel when there is no Israel. You are conflating many things my friend. Do nit let your understandings to override God's truths. I explain as a Prophesy guy the one thing I love more than anything is hearing the Spirit say "You are wrong Ron" because I therefore know I am about to get "THE ANSWER" (Smile). I love being told I am wrong now. BUT......if people are unwilling to hear that (as I was for 30 years) they can not be taught God's truths by His Holy Spirit, it is not possible for God to correct us if we refuse to ever be wrong. Think about it brother. My thinking of 30 years had a lot of WRONG THINK in it, I just started hearing God's voice of correction. And being corrected by an all knowing God is cool. That means He loves us like children, Amen. 

Of course it does brother, of course I have already told why, so there's no use rehashing here and being redundant. 

Israel has been Dead Men's Bones for 400 years by this time brother. Let go of your understandings and just ask God the simple thing I did 7 years ago when He answered my prayer with "Ron, you guys already know it all" (tell you later what the prayer was). Thus I simply asked God, "SHOW ME your truths on the end time Lord". 

The 10 are Clay & Iron, which means they are partly strong and partly weak, but why? Well, Spain, England, France, Germany, Belgium etc. are Strong, and you then have Malta, Luxemburg, The Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia etc. who are PARLY WEAK. It also means these were not Conquered Nations like under Greece or Rome but Nations who in many cases had been around for eons, now forming ONE NATON, but trying to do so via MANY NATIONS, thus you have a weaker rule because you will never get consensus as easy as with One Strong Ruler. But over time they freely give their power over unto ONE MAN (Anti-Christ). 

The Roman Beast goes away via a Mortal Wound. The 10 (Complete Europe Reunited but weaker because they are MANY Nations with many leaders) arise first, THEN the Little Horn or Anti-Christ is born AMIDST the 10 or in Europe.

By the way, the SEED of men in Dan. 2 refers to Royal Marriage Attempts through the ages. Never worked, no matter how they tried, the division remained until Israel was reborn in 1948, THEN within 10 years we had the Council of Rome in the mid 50s formulating the emergence of the European Union. 

Caesar is not the Anti-Christ, he is an End Time Beast. He is cast into hell along with the False Prophet. You need a total rehaul on all things end time brother. 

 

CONTINUED........

 

[Revelation Man]

On 12/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, abcdef said:

I believe that the story of the 10 virgins really happened at someones wedding. Jesus uses a true event to make a point about the kingdom of heaven, Matt 25:1-13, 1.

The 5 are left because they have no oil in their lantern (holy spirit) which produces the "light". The number 10 means completeness, why try to discredit what God has given us as facts, we all know God used numbers in these ways

On 12/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, abcdef said:

The kingdom of heaven began on Pentecost in 33 AD. It is also known as the gospel kingdom of Israel. You and I seem to agree that the 10 virgins represent the kingdom of Israel/church of Israel.

 

Mmm, no, the Kingdom of Heaven is not on earth. Jesus told us His kingdom (the Kingdom Age) was coming, but that his kingdom was not on earth (at this time). Then Paul says later that the god of this world is Satan, he said that AFTER Jesus' death. 

Until Jesus returns Satan rules this world, the end time 7 Headed Beast (Anti-Christ = the 7th Head) has a CROWN on it via the Red Dragon, that means he is still the ruler of this world. Babylon falling is Satan being placed in the bottomless pit for 1000 years. The one who confuses(Babel) mankind. Jesus sits on the right hand of God UNTIL God makes his enemies his footstool. 

On 12/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, abcdef said:

We seem to agree that the numbers used in that passage are symbolic and not literal. That is, more souls than 5 young girls will enter into the wedding between Jesus and the gospel kingdom of Israel/(church).

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We seem to agree that some of the numbers in the Rev have a symbolic meaning, 5, 7, 10, and 144,000 for example.

Well, 5 is half of 10, but I don't think 5 is a well know number God uses, he does use all 10, but 5 is not like 3, 6, 7, 8 and 10. 

On 12/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, abcdef said:

The similar numbers found in Dan. 2 & 7, have similar symbolic meanings, paralleling each other.

You agree that the numbers are not literal, necessarily, but they have a meaning through the symbols presented. That is, it is what the symbols/(numbers) represent that are the message and not the symbols themselves that are the subject.

It is what the 10 virgins represent that is the message, not the 10 virgins themselves, that are the subject of the passage, message.

Yes, and 10 is used many many times, and even if it may be 10 Plagues or the 10 Commandments it still means Completion, God's complete judgments and God's Complete Laws encapsulated in 19 Laws, and that is possible because Jesus said all the Laws could be kept via only 2 laws. So, mostly not literal, but even when literal the meaning of 10 means Completion, not 10. That goes for the 10 horns of the Beast also.

On 12/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, abcdef said:

The 7 times are showing the same time period as the statue in Dan. 2, and the 4 beasts of Dan. 7.

The first 3 1/2 times is from Babylon until 70 AD. when Israel was scattered, Dan. 12:7. 

The second 3 1/2 times is from 70 AD until 1967 when Jerusalem was restored and the 2nd part of the times of the gentiles statue came to an end, Lk 21:20-24, 24.

I do not know what you mean by 7 Times. If you are speaking of 7 Heads, then those are real Beasts, just like the 10 Plagues were real and complete, thus the 7 Heads were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome (6 Heads or 6 times I guess) and one Head is yet to come (The Anti-Christ). Basically Israel is as dead men's bones from 70AD until 1946. The Times of the Gentiles is not what many think, the time of the Gentiles coming full, if we read Paul is referring unto the Church Age, where the Gentiles are used by God instead of the Jews, Roman chapters 9-11 explain this in full. If we are speaking of TIME of the Gentiles as ruling, well the Gentiles always bossed the world. Read Rom. 9-11, it tells us that the Time of the Gentiles is the Gentiles being used by God the Potter, not the Jews, but after the Gentiles time has come full, Israel will be grafted back in, during the 70th week, after the Rapture.

On 12/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, abcdef said:

Was it a DOTL in 70 AD when Jerusalem and the temple were Destroyed?

No, the DOTL is when God's Wrath is come full, read Joel 2:31, read Rev. 8, listen to Jesus, this will be a day when God's Wrath starts, and this Judgment will be with fire. (Asteroid Impact). God's 70t week vs. Israel has to get Israel to repent, so says the Dan. 9:24-27 prophecy.

On 12/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, abcdef said:

So the numbers that many thought were literal years are not literal at all. They are symbolic showing a time period of centuries. 

The 7 times equals the time of the statue, from Babylon until 1967.

No, the 7 heads = 7 Kingdoms, Rev. 17 tells us that. Not 7 centuries

On 12/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, abcdef said:

The central question for the children of Israel since Babylon always has been, "When will the children of Israel be restored to control of Jerusalem again?"

The statue and the 4 beasts answer that question.

The Revelation answers the question for those after 70 AD., those who are in the second 3 1/2 times.

The Time of the Gentiles (TotG) is about us (Church) taking over for Israel as per God's chosen vehicle to reach the world. All one has to do is put all the references together which Paul is referring unto in Romans 9-11, before he speaks about the TotG being fulfilled. WATCH how Rom. 9 starts out !!

 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

Rom. 9:3  For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

{{{ So, Paul is telling the Romans, he wishes Israel could still be used by God, but he is so sad he himself would accept a curse if his brothers could be back to where they should be, in God and in Christ Jesus. But even though they had the covenant and the laws given unto them, they are accursed, and blinded for a time. }}}

Rom. 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

{{{ Paul is showing how God chooses whom He chooses to SERVE, He chose Jacob the younger over Esau the Elder, God did not hate Esau, that's a bd translation, it simply mean He loved Esau less. The same can be said in the passage where Jesus says you should hate your parents, that is not what it means, it means you should love me more than anyone, including your parents. So, Paul is trying to explain to the Romans why God choose them NOW, and forsook Israel, and that it is only for a time, so do not get the BIG HEAD !! Israel will be grafted back in. }}}

Rom 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

{{{ God forsook Israel because of disobedience, God called the Gentiles unto servitude, that is why Paul speaks of God choosing Jacob over Esau. }}}

 Rom. 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

{{{ So, right off we get that Paul is speaking about God's CALL on Israel, (THINK NOW) and thus the Time of the Gentiles is at hand, Israel's call is now on the back burner, BUT Paul says God is not yet finished with Israel. Even though Elijah prayed against them, God stated he had saved Himself a remnant SEE BELOW.}}}

Rom. 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

{{{ So, 7000 means ALL Israel who eventually repent, not 7000, just like 144,000 also means ALL Israel who repents. But the point here is even though Elijah prayed against them, God would not ever leave Israel forever, because of His promise to Abraham. }}}

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

{{{ Paul is explaining how Israel fall led to the Salvation of the Gentiles. So, their fall enriched mankind, we could see how a nation who served Gid prospered, but one who disobeyed God always fell, in due time. So, the TotG, is upon us now and has been since Jesus/death or 70 AD. }}}

Rom. 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear. 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

{{{ So, Israel were cast off fir unbelief, God chose to now use the Gentiles to take his Gospel unto the whole world. But if Israel will turn from their UNBELIEF, God will graft them back into the tree.}}}

Rom. 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

{{{ So, its obvious by reading Rom. chapters 9-11 in its full context, the TIME OF THE GENTILES is referring unto Gid CHOOSING the Gentiles over Israel to take the Gospel unto the whole world, thus he mentions all these references un to God CHOOSING whom He will, Jacob over Esau, He is e Potter, He chooses who He chooses just like a potter makes what he so pleases, the vessel has no choice. Every reference in all three chapters are about God choosing whom He chooses, thus the Time of the Gentiles is referencing the Gentiles serving God, not to the Gentiles ruling over Israel. }}}

Edited December 27, 2022 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

I changed the top part, I saw where we agreed on Numbers somewhat, but I hit post before I rechecked it because my 89 year old mom was hurting he catheter to urinate had come out and she was about to bust so we had to call a nurse over.

Her 106 year old sister died Dec. 22, she was almost 107, she fell out of her char and hit her head. Moms had a rough week. 

[Revelation Man]

On 12/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, abcdef said:

The Rev 8 passage is centered on the unbelieving flesh broken branches of Israel. 

The events described happen to the broken branches because they rejected the gospel kingdom.

The symbols of the passage describe the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, the aftermath and 70 AD great scattering, and the continued withdrawing of the blessings of covenant protection on the flesh broken branches.

-- The real asteroid that will soon hit is shown as the stone striking the statue in Dan. 2 and the fire from heaven in Rev 20, after the toes end when Jerusalem is restored, 1967.

 

I answered this mostly above in the last long reply. Rev. 8, is a future event, you sound like a preterist, that is not even something I believe to be a remote possibility. The Stone cut out of the Mountain is Jesus Christ conquering the Beast. Notice, its cut out WITHOUT HANDS. Same thing is said in Dan. 8:25 about the Prince of princes. 

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

On 12/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, abcdef said:

You are confusing some scriptures about the second coming for salvation DOTL, with some that are about the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem and the temple DOTL.

 

None of those passages are about 70 AD brother.

On 12/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, abcdef said:

All you have to do is look at the statue to see that it has 2 legs, 10 toes, and that it is a continual timeline.

 

NOPE......the Iron legs are not Iron & Clay, so its not the SAME Kingdom, the feet aRe Iron & Clay. Its NOT CONTINUAL friend. 

On 12/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, abcdef said:

How many Antichrists are there? Many. Antiochus was just one.

Caesar is the Antichrist who destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD.

All the Caesars and all the Bishops of Rome since the fall of Rome have been Antichrists, Roman beast false prophets.

The timelines are continual.

There is ONE Man of Sin, ONE Little Horn, ONE Beast of the end times. To be anti christ was Paul's way of saying Anti God. Just like God is eternal, the anti God spirit also has to be eternal. 

There s only ONE Anti-Christ as we reference him being a man. Many are against God, but there is only ONE Man of Sin, Little Horn, Wicked One etc. etc. We just use Anti-Christ as a catch all.

On 12/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, abcdef said:

If you say that the timelines are not continual, then you are directly going against what the Dan. 2 and Dan. 7 timelines show.

Any theory that contradicts the Dan. 2 & 7 timelines cannot be correct.

 

No, you just don't seem to understand the Statue CHANGES, from Iron to Iron & Clay AND the Beast gets a Mortal Wound. 

On 12/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, abcdef said:

History plainly shows that the Roman iron 4th beast divided into east and west.

 

No, and others have tried to Emphasize another Leg which God never placed any emphasis on. There are two Arms also. A statue has 2 legs and 2 arms. The Church delivered the Mortal Wound to Rome, she became a conveyor belt of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We turned Rome from a Beast who murdered Christians to a City that worked very hard to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the bible of world fame for 1000 years was the Latin Vulgate. Rome is the Fourth Beast, and she gives place for the 5th Beast to arise, a MAN who is born in Greece, he's a Turk or Iraqi (Old Assyria) who parents or grand parents moved to Greece somewhere down the line. Then he comes to power in the E.U. (where the 10 horns arise to power and the  he is born amidst or in the E.U.)

On 12/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, abcdef said:

History shows that the division of east and west was totally relevant to the children of Israel. The fact that the Roman Empire divides into 2 parts shows the major beginnings of the deterioration of the Roman power over the children of Israel.

And fulfills the prophetic statements that God made about the iron 4th beast centuries before.

No sir, history does not show that, many have surmised that, so to try and show the Roman beast kept going for the whole 2000 years and the RCC took over for Rome which is to me nonsensical at best. Others try to claim, see, see, see, Turkey became that Beast and then the Ottoman Empire and etc. etc. etc. which is also, IMHO, just an untruth sent by Satan, both are head-fakes from Satan, reading the bible clearly tells us this man must be born in Greece (Daniel 8:9) and come to power in the E.U. (Dan. 7:7-8). 

Israel was not a Nation by the time of this division. When Rome started carrying the Cross via Constantine, that was the Mortal Wound of the Beast. 

On 12/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, abcdef said:

This is a misconception.

All of the beast nations and those of the statue rule over the children of Israel until Jerusalem is restored to Israel.

After Jerusalem is restored, none of the beast nations rule over the children of Israel. The reign of the statue and beasts ends when Jerusalem is restored. 1967

God stated in Ezekiel 37 that Israel was Dead Men's Bones, we can't ARGUE with Gid brother. So, Israel are NO MORE until God revives them in 1948, it is God's Holy Word. 

God stated He brought them out of the nations and He did so as the Whole House of Israel. Jerusalem does not keep Israel from being Israel once Gid revived them. As a matter of fact Gid promised Abraham land from the Euphrates to a rive in Egypt, so was Israel NEVER Israel since they never got that land? Of course not, Israel is a people. 

On 12/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, abcdef said:

Consider that the Roman image beast in Rev 16 must deceive the kings of the east to attack Jerusalem, because he does not have the power to do it himself, because he is an image beast, without the "substance" to attack Jerusalem himself.

2013, Vatican recognizes the State of Palestine.

2015, Vatican-Iran treaty.

Vatican City has nothing to do with end time eschatology, no matter how evil the Pope or some of the RCC leaders are. The Kings of the east are basically the WHOLE WORLD, because the two Americas will be burned to a crisp, we are the 1/3 that BURNS in Rev. 8, that leaves pretty much everyone that then attacks Israel as being Kings of the east or east of Israel. God has a way with giving us deep truths, but if we miss one clue, all the others get very murky. When we understand the Rev. 8 Asteroid is going to wipe out North & South America, and the Pacific Ocean areas with tsunamis, then the kings of the East is all the powers that are really left. Gid is telling you all those left will be east of Jerusalem, basically. 

On 12/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, abcdef said:

Rome is the last beast that rules over the children of Israel from 63 BC until 1967, continual until the end. Changing form, but continual.

From 63 bc until 70 AD, Israel was no more, but Rome remained a Beast until the Mortal Wound in 300 AD or so. 

The Last Beast (A.C.) Heals the Mortal Wound by conquering Israel and Jerusalem. 

On 12/24/2022 at 8:08 PM, abcdef said:

The Roman beast did not die when Jerusalem fell and the children of Israel were scattered into the gentile nations.

The Roman beast nation continued to rule over the children of Israel as slaves and subjects throughout the Empire even after Jerusalem fell. The only children of Israel who escaped were mostly the believing flesh Christian branches who believed the prophecies of Jesus about the 70 AD destruction and wars and then fled.

The Roman beast nation continued to attack the children of Israel through centuries until 1967. 

 

I said Rome lived on until it received the Mortal Wound in 300 AD

On 12/24/2022 at 8:08 PM, abcdef said:

That prophecy was given during the captivity in Babylon and seems to refer to the time after Babylon and before the resurrection of Jesus and the OT saints in 33 AD 

Its a END TIME PROPHECY, it says so. 

On 12/24/2022 at 8:08 PM, abcdef said:

Satan was thrown down from heaven on the day of Pentecost in 33 AD, after the war in heaven, when "salvation" came, when the "kingdom of God" came, and the "power of his Christ" came, Rev 12:10.

Then the Roman dragon beast nation chases the flesh believing children of Israel into the wilderness of the gentile nations, until 1967. Rev 12.

No, Satan is thrown down with 1260 days left before he is locked in the bottomless pit. Read Rev. 12, he is cast to earth and has but a SHORT TIME, not 2000 years. 

On 12/24/2022 at 8:08 PM, abcdef said:

Rome the iron 4th beast gets the power of Satan to rule over the children of Israel.

Satan gives his seat of authority to Rome, Rev 13.

The Anti-Christ, ONE MAN is given this seat. He is the 5th Beast of Daniel 7.  You have to know what to look for.

CONTINUED..........

[Diaste]

On 11/30/2022 at 11:36 AM, Vine Abider said:

Many, if not most, seem to think they are essentially the same empires, but I think there's good reason for saying the one in chapter 7 pertains more to end times than ancient kingdoms,  like is depicted in chapter 2.

Here are some reasons:

1.     It makes little sense that the first three beasts would be ancient kingdoms, since the 4^th beast and the rest of the chapter all pertain to end times (i.e., final judgement, the Son of Man coming in the clouds and the kingdom dominion – chapter 12:9,10, 13, 14)

Well, Persia, Greece and Iraq still exist. And here we are close to the end, imo.

On 11/30/2022 at 11:36 AM, Vine Abider said:

2.     Verse 7 says – “These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which SHALL arise out of the earth.”  If Babylon was one of those beasts (as many suppose the 1^st beast is), it would not say “shall arise” as this would make little sense, since Babylon was in existence when Daniel received this vision.

I think it's 'kings' here, not kingdoms. The focus is on some four kings that arise beyond the time of Daniel.

On 11/30/2022 at 11:36 AM, Vine Abider said:

3.     After the 4^th beast (antichrist) is destroyed, the other three remain as stated in verse 12 – “As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.”  Therefore, the other three kingdoms must have existed during the reign of antichrist.*

Sure. Those kingdoms survive today. Greece, Iran and Iraq are all here without their great dominion.

 

On 11/30/2022 at 11:36 AM, Vine Abider said:

4.     We see these beasts again in Revelation 13, which is about an end time scenario.  (the beasts in that chapter seemed to have morphed into one beast – “The beast that I saw was like a leopard. Its feet were like bear’s feet, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth.”)

Indeed. 

On 11/30/2022 at 11:36 AM, Vine Abider said:

 

 *Popular interpretation of these 4 beasts is that the first is Babylon, the second is the Medo/Persian empire, the third is the Greek/Alexander empire and the fourth is the Roman empire.  But while it’s possible to ascribe these beasts to those ancient empires, it doesn’t negate that it could also apply in latter times as well.

Popular is incorrect. It's the realms of the Diadochi. It's not Rome, it's the Seleucid Empire which includes both Syria and the land of the ancient Assyrian Empire; notably called the Empire of Iron by historians.

[Diaste]

On 11/30/2022 at 1:22 PM, Vine Abider said:

Looking at the beast/empires in Daniel 7, here are some interesting things to note with the first two.

3 And four great beasts ^tcame up out of the sea, different from one another. 4 The first was like a lion and had eagles’ wings. Then as I looked its wings were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand on two feet like a man, and the mind of a man was given to it. 5 And behold, ^uanother beast, a second one, like a bear. It was raised up on one side. It had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth; and it was told, ‘Arise, devour much flesh.’ 

Great Briton was the greatest empire the world has ever seen in a couple respects - it had about 1/4 of the earth's land and it had more people than any other empire before or since. It was said the sun never set on the British empire.  And it's symbol has always been the lion ever since the days of Richard the Lion-hearted - this symbol can be seen everywhere.

The two wings the lion had got plucked off.  This could be a symbol of the United States gaining independence. 

The bear is a symbol of Russia.  The country has had an aggressive stance for some time.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=images+of+babylonian+winged+lion&t=chromentp&atb=v314-1&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images

Check this page for the winged lion of Babylon.

I think verse 4 is in reference to Dan 4:28-37 as an identifier, just so we can know who it is. Same as the rest really. 

 

[Last Daze]

On 11/30/2022 at 12:36 PM, Vine Abider said:

Many, if not most, seem to think they are essentially the same empires, but I think there's good reason for saying the one in chapter 7 pertains more to end times than ancient kingdoms,  like is depicted in chapter 2.

Here are some reasons:

1.     It makes little sense that the first three beasts would be ancient kingdoms, since the 4^th beast and the rest of the chapter all pertain to end times (i.e., final judgement, the Son of Man coming in the clouds and the kingdom dominion – chapter 12:9,10, 13, 14)

2.     Verse 7 says – “These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which SHALL arise out of the earth.”  If Babylon was one of those beasts (as many suppose the 1^st beast is), it would not say “shall arise” as this would make little sense, since Babylon was in existence when Daniel received this vision.

3.     After the 4^th beast (antichrist) is destroyed, the other three remain as stated in verse 12 – “As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.”  Therefore, the other three kingdoms must have existed during the reign of antichrist.*

4.     We see these beasts again in Revelation 13, which is about an end time scenario.  (the beasts in that chapter seemed to have morphed into one beast – “The beast that I saw was like a leopard. Its feet were like bear’s feet, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth.”)

 *Popular interpretation of these 4 beasts is that the first is Babylon, the second is the Medo/Persian empire, the third is the Greek/Alexander empire and the fourth is the Roman empire.  But while it’s possible to ascribe these beasts to those ancient empires, it doesn’t negate that it could also apply in latter times as well.

We know from Daniel 10 that kingdoms have a spiritual aspect as well a natural manifestation.  Daniel 2 is the natural manifestation of the spiritual beasts of Daniel 7.  The same beasts that brought us the Daniel 2 kingdoms will again be active in the end times.

[abcdef]

On 12/17/2022 at 7:08 AM, Revelation Man said:

Great, you would be surprised at the number of people, when I corner them on a debate point, start saying its numerology, they can understand that God can call the 10 virgin brides the [complete] church but just can not accept that God can call His Jewish Bride 144,000 Male Virgins with a code also. I mean, to me its obvious that 12 (Fulness) x 12 x 10 (Completeness) x 10 x 10 = ALL Israel who repent or 3.5-5 million end time Jews (Israelites) who repent, we get the number (3.5-5 million) by looking to the 1/3 who repent in Zechariah 13:8-9 vs the 2/3 who refuse to repent and die. God doesn't just chose perfect numbers, thus the 7000 He has saved Himself, the 144,000 and the 1/3 can all mean the same thing, and God can't lie. I got this in full trying to put the book of Revelation in perfect Chronological Order when I understood the Seals are NOT JUDGMENRS but Jesus prophesying what was soon to come, it hit me, my 144,000 understanding now fit perfectly with the Jews fleeing Judea just before the DOTL

 

On 12/17/2022 at 7:08 AM, Revelation Man said:

(Rev. 8 Asteroid) which is God's Wrath.

It is God's wrath, yes, but it is exclusively happening to the flesh unbelieving broken branches of Israel after 70 AD and not the gentile planet earth.

The symbols show 70 AD Jerusalem falling from it's heavenly place, disappearing after being plunged into the sea of the gentile nations, and the consequences to the children of Israel in their relationship to God.

 

On 12/17/2022 at 7:08 AM, Revelation Man said:

As we can see in Scriptures in many places, Zech. 13:8-9 & 14:1, Malachi 4:5-6 and of course Matt. 24:15-20.

Sorry Bro, but,

All of these scriptures are 33 AD - 70 AD ish centered and not future to us.

---

Zech 13:8-9,

Verse 7 says, "...: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered; ..."

Fulfilled in 33 AD in Mk 14:27, "...: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered."

Verses 8 & 9 are showing the time directly after the death of Jesus as the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem.

-

Zech 14:1-9, Was fulfilled at the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem. The anchor of the timeline is 33 AD when the "living" Holy Spirit waters (v. 9) began to flow from Jerusalem to the gentile nations, 

-------

Mal 4:5-6, Elijah was John the Baptist in the 33 AD time period. Fulfilled in Matt 11:14. 

-----

Matt 24:15-22, The AoD happened in 70 AD when Titus sacrificed a pig on the alter of the burned out temple during the siege.

The "tribulation" that came after that was the scattering of the faithful Christian flesh Israel into the gentile nations and the slavery or death of the unfaithful unbelieving flesh branches of the children of Israel.

------

 

On 12/17/2022 at 7:08 AM, Revelation Man said:

This was an idea that some man came up with somewhere over time, provably Herbert W. Armstrong, and it became "legend" all because Rome had two place of power. Well, Greece had two Arms but no one says that means they had two places of power, even though both had many places of power, they ruled far and wide and had many, many sub stations and out posts. There is no division in Rome. To God Rome is Rome. It doesn't transfer to Turkey, and the A.C. is not a Muslim. This is easily proven via the texts in the bible. There are Three Prophetic Descriptors which tell us exactly where this man has to come from, and ALL THREE must e correct because they are Prophesy. So, simply put them all together and see of the all can be possible. Lets do this brother.

1.) He has to have Assyrian Bloodline, so says the Prophet Isaiah in Isaiah chapter 10. 

2.) He has to be born in Greece, so says the Prophet Daniel in Daniel 8:9. In the End Times he waxes great TOWARD the East, the South and Israel. Well, we know he Conquers Israel, so WAXES GREAT TOWARDS = Conquers. So, in this simple Four Way Directional box (Four Generals) God gave us, we can clearly see in this inter-kingdom battle tat the end time Anti-Christ conquers East (Seleucid/Turkey), South (Ptolemy/Egypt) and Israel or the Pleasant Land. This mean he Conquers from the Northwest corridor of the kingdom, or from Greece/Cassander. God gave us the simplest of four way boxes, tells us where he comes from, and we OVERTHINK IT sadly. 

3.) He has to arise out of the Fourth Beasts Head as I show in maps above, this means the E.U. today. And guess what, Greece is in the E.U. See how it all has to interlock? 

This man will be an Assyrian, Northern Iraq, bits of Syria or Tukey, that was the old Assyrian Kingdoms landmass. Turkey and Greece of course have had a common border for eons, their peoples intermingle on that border, so an Assyrian [Turk] Family migrating to Greece 100 to 200 years ago, or even further back is a no brainer tbh. So, that knocks out two of the Prophesies. The third is he must come to power from the E.U. or Europe's 10 that Divided or Divided Europe in general (Complete Europe). And Greece is in the E.U. not in some Islamic Horde that comes together in the End Times. As a matter of fact the bible never says that happens anywhere, that came from men like Joel Richardson and others who are not adding up all of the facts as I just did. WHY do we get a RUNDOWN of every Greek King in Dan. 11 from Alexander the Great to Antiochus (Dan. 11:21-34) and then get the Anti-Christ in Dan. 11:36-45? Because the A.C. will be born in Greece just like Antiochus his forerunner. 

The legs do not represent an East and West Kingdom, that is not of God. As a matter of fact the bible is about Israel and Israel being under the Dominion of Beast Kingdoms. Rome sacked Israel and Jerusalem in 70 AD, so something that happened in 286 AD is not relevant to a Beast having Dominion over Israel. As a matter of fact you could say in the end that Constantine wanted to use his power convert those in the East to Christianity, the Mortal Wound came when the Church conquered Rome's beliefs of paganism. The Beast is did by 300 AD or so because Rome became a Christian nation, and there can be no Beast anyway, without Israel in the land, that is why the Ottoman Empire nor the British Empire are named as Beasts over Israel.

CONTINUED............

 

[abcdef]

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I answered this mostly above in the last long reply. Rev. 8, is a future event,

 

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

you sound like a preterist,

I will listen to anybody. Everyone has something to offer or consider.

Reasoning together brings us to the truth. All of us stand on the shoulders of souls who have come before us.

What I have to say, I have not been taught by any person. I have studied many theories and made my own decisions about what to believe, since 2002 and this theory was developed.

You  won't find any group or website that interprets the prophecy timelines as I do. Some things are similar, but none of them are exactly what I say.

That is, Jerusalem is going to fall to Iran, 3 1/2 days later, this planet is fire, then the last judgment of Rev 20. Basically and briefly.

Much of the differences come by knowing which scriptures are past and which ones are future. 

By seeing the events as future, instead of understanding that they have already been fulfilled, distorts the vision of future events. That is, you would be looking for signs that will not happen, because the signs that you are looking for have already happened in a past time.

 

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

that is not even something I believe to be a remote possibility.

Agree

 

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Stone cut out of the Mountain is Jesus Christ conquering the Beast.

The toes end before the stone strikes. So the power of the Roman beast over the children of Israel has already ended before the stone strikes.

The stone striking the statue is Jesus coming for the kingdom at the resur/rapt coming for salvation, Heb 9:28. After Jerusalem is restored.

Following the stone striking (fire from heaven) is the last judgment of Rev 20:11-15.

 

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Notice, its cut out WITHOUT HANDS. Same thing is said in Dan. 8:25 about the Prince of princes. 

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Antiochus, Good Grief man, it plainly states that the nations are Media/Persia and Greece, Dan 8:20-23, You know, the silver and brass of the Dan. 2 statue and the 2nd and 3rd beasts of Dan. 7.

Why on earth would you see this as future? When it is so plainly stated?

 

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

None of those passages are about 70 AD brother.

Already answered.

 

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said: