The Exorcism of Emily Rose

[nebula]

So now, once you read that, you wanted to know how can I be insensitive to people who have lived through demonic possession?  Well, I'm not.  I neither pity them or worship them or place them in any special catagory other than beloved fellow Christian (if they are such).  It simply doesn't bother me as it might others.  Demonic possession usually removes the person from the encounter, few are ever aware of what happens and have to be told or view/hear recordings.  Should we sympathize with someone we share no common experience with on the matter?  No.  We can empathize though.

I feel that if your walk is strong you can view such things without fear or without compromising your faith. For some, they feel their walk is strong, but they choose not to risk it. That's ok too. Everyone has their level of comfort as someone so eloquently stated.

Thank-you for the clarification.

I have an alternative proposition, though. What if seeing such movies or not is not about "faith level" - but a personality issue.

From reading your testimony, I can tell you are a much "stronger" personality than I am. You've got the "take the bull by the horns and show him who's boss" spirit (please be careful about pride in your abilities, though - don't know if that's an issue or not - I just hope you are guarding against it. ). I've got the "stay out of the bull pen, stupid!" spirit. Hey, if you enjoy running down the streets of Pamplona. . . .

And I just don't enjoy movies that leave me feeling bad (scared, depressed, icky, creepy, whatever). My life is sad enough without having to feel bad over an imaginary character or Hollywood trumped up real-life person. Not seeing that movie isn't about "faith" - it's about how I'd leave feeling and how it would affect my mood the rest of the night and how it would bring back memories I'd rather not "feel" all over again.

Now if seeing such a movie helps people understand things they don't - hey, I'm all for education. I just hope there is the balance of truth. I'd like to see a movie that shows people getting delivered in Jesus' name - and delivered for real! I'd like to see movies showing testimonies I've heard from missionaries where they've gone toe-to-toe with witch doctors and in, by, and through Jesus overcame the witch doctors.

But that's another story.

And why I got angry, in part, was because when someone asks for help, being told it's a "lack of faith" issue is the last thing they need to hear. The person needs to be told how to stand strong, how to fight back, to be encouraged to look to the Lord and not the situation, offered Scriptures, etc., etc., etc.

But maybe part of the problem is the classic case of typed words lacking facial expressions, voice expression, and body language to sense what is truly meant by the person. It takes an art to have bare words bring out loving thoughts when words are more harsh or whatever.

Anyway, I appologize if I blew-up "out of proportion" - like I said, I happen to be very sensative in this area.

I'd rather be surrounded by spirders than to see a film about demons.

[Fiosh]

Just a general comment:

If you want to learn about spiritual warfare, I suggest the book "Pigs in the Parlour" by Frank and Ida Mae Hammond.  It is available at most Christian bookstores, and also online.

I can't imagine anything more unlikely than a Roman Catholic priest casting out demons (personal perspective).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It happens. The RC actually has several designated exorcists.

[Fiosh]

Jan. 26, 1999

VATICAN (CWNews.com) -- The Devil exists. That unpopular reality is brought into sharp focus by the promulgation of a new rite of exorcism for the Catholic Church.

De Exorcismus et supplicationibus quibusdam, approved by Pope John Paul II on October 1, 1998, was formally released by the Vatican on January 26. The document sets out a new and precise liturgical form for the rite of exorcism. The 84-page form, introduced by the Congregation Divine Worship, was published entirely in Latin; the episcopal conferences of different nations may now prepare their own versions in the vernacular languages.

This new Vatican document clearly recognizes both the existence of the Devil and the reality of diabolical possession. In a short introduction, the document calls attention to the existence of both "angelic creatures" and others "called demons, who are opposed to God." Since the influence of the demonic can become apparent in people, places, or things, the document continues, the Church "has prayed, and continues to pray, that men will be freed from the snares of the Devil."

[Mongo]

From reading your testimony, I can tell you are a much "stronger" personality than I am.  You've got the "take the bull by the horns and show him who's boss" spirit (please be careful about pride in your abilities, though - don't know if that's an issue or not - I just hope you are guarding against it. ).  I've got the "stay out of the bull pen, stupid!" spirit.  Hey, if you enjoy running down the streets of Pamplona. . . .

The only real issue I have is the same one most Christians have and that's sexual. I've taken it by the horns a few times (as I told to Keith in a PM reply to his PM to me) and its paid off. But I don't do that a lot. I believe that if you withdraw you make yourself weaker to the temptation, so I don't withdraw but I don't go looking for it either. Sometimes you can't help your particular thorn stabbing you and other times you get this totally gratifying joy from God knowing that you walked away and the enemy is hollering loudly about it. Some people won't watch certain movies because they feel they are inviting temptation or trouble, while I watch them and when I see the boogeyman leaping from the roof I say, "Oh man, that's so fake you can see the wires!" They are looking at it one way, I am viewing it entirely another. Like this one, many saw it as a movie about possession, I saw it as a movie with Laura Linney. LOL

And I just don't enjoy movies that leave me feeling bad (scared, depressed, icky, creepy, whatever).  My life is sad enough without having to feel bad over an imaginary character or Hollywood trumped up real-life person.  Not seeing that movie isn't about "faith" - it's about how I'd leave feeling and how it would affect my mood the rest of the night and how it would bring back memories I'd rather not "feel" all over again.

I hear ya. I still get choked up at 'Where the Red Fern Grows', so I don't watch it anymore. I used to keep King of Kings, Ten Commandments, and some other religous movies and watch them as often as I did Dune, Star Wars, and Alien. My only problem is that none of them (the religious ones) are on disk and mine are too bad now to capture - I've even lost 2 of them due to watching to much. Some movies are just good stories and I appreciate them as such, I just don't like Christians telling me that by watching Alien I am sinning.

Now if seeing such a movie helps people understand things they don't - hey, I'm all for education.  I just hope there is the balance of truth.  I'd like to see a movie that shows people getting delivered in Jesus' name - and delivered for real!  I'd like to see movies showing testimonies I've heard from missionaries where they've gone toe-to-toe with witch doctors and in, by, and through Jesus overcame the witch doctors.

Best all time movie is King of Kings. If you don't get a positive feeling from it and you don't get more understanding about the events, I don't what will do it then.

And why I got angry, in part, was because when someone asks for help, being told it's a "lack of faith" issue is the last thing they need to hear. The person needs to be told how to stand strong, how to fight back, to be encouraged to look to the Lord and not the situation, offered Scriptures, etc., etc., etc.

But that's not what Sallystrothers asked. Sally said "I went to see it tonight. I don't like scary movies and especially ones involving spirits but my friend really wanted to see it. I would say the movie was good. It definitely emphasized that the supernatural is real, but it was a little too much reality for me. One of the interesting quotes at the end was "Once you have seen darkness, you will carry it for the rest of your life". I have found this to be quite true in my own life." Sally never asked how to fight back.

Irene stated "Why would a christian even want to see this movie regardless of what your freind wants?? Do not plan on seeing it"

To which I answered:Why not? Just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you have to turn inward into a secluded world of only the prim and proper and pleasant. I guess if someone was unsure about their Christianity they wouldn't want to view such things. For me, it was just a trippy drama with neat special effects at times.

But maybe part of the problem is the classic case of typed words lacking facial expressions, voice expression, and body language to sense what is truly meant by the person.  It takes an art to have bare words bring out loving thoughts when words are more harsh or whatever.

Anyway, I appologize if I blew-up "out of proportion" - like I said, I happen to be very sensative in this area.

Don't worry about it.

If you, or ANYONE, has anything to say to or ask me, they can do so. Keith did. Didn't ya Keith? Weeee!

I'd rather be surrounded by spirders than to see a film about demons.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ug... You keep them spiders. *shudders* Now I just creeped out all over again.

[IreneM]

Once again I have some thing typed out and deleated it

If you are a christian and you wish to fill your mind with this stuff go ahead you don't have to answer to me

In Christ

IreneM

[Mongo]

Once again I have some thing typed out  and  deleated it 

Did you too hit the "ENTER" key by accident and the text just vanished? That's happened to me. I think it was the "ENTER" key.

[nebula]

I believe that if you withdraw you make yourself weaker to the temptation, so I don't withdraw but I don't go looking for it either.  Sometimes you can't help your particular thorn stabbing you and other times you get this totally gratifying joy from God knowing that you walked away and the enemy is hollering loudly about it. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK - Would you demonstate to me your ability to not withdraw with this spider picture so I can see how to do this with demonic movies?

[Mongo]

That was mean, Nebula.

Here I was, enjoying the Astros win and drinking my iced tea and the next thing there's a huge spider sucking juices from a bug.

To answer;

Basically instead of quietly turning inward I boldly stand with Jesus before me. I don't "feel" a shield or any armor covering me, I just know that Jesus is between me and whatever happens. I remember how He protects me, even though I might be harmed. I remember how He knows my limits and whatever happens is within His intentions for me and to His plan. Sometimes I remind Him of these loudly, lol.

Once I got to that point, things became easier to handle that were huge obstacles for me in the past. Its like walking in complete confidence the lions are not going to bother you. You have to have complete faith in God in those areas, but you're not doing it to test him. If you know that you can't or shouldn't be near some things, then don't go to them. Sometimes you have no choice. Say you were watching a movie about space and suddenly the movie takes a twist and has demons. At that point, if I had issues with that subject, I could either exit the movie or say to God, "Ok Lord, now here comes the hard part. Have some of my Pepsi and keep me safe for this."

Sometimes you have to "dig down deep" within yourself first to muster the courage to call upon God. I've had someone point a gun at my head and tell me "You're going to die, what you think about that?" It took everything in me to go deep into my thoughts and pull up, "Forgive him, Jesus." Later, I was telling God, "What was that for? I left your parking space alone, no reason for that nonsense!"

Yes, I talk to God like that all the time. If I manage to get the right card in Spider (a solataire version) and end the game, I thank him. When I see a good card to play in Hearts, I say "Thanks God, I missed that" or thank Him. When I hear that 5k people died in a bombing, I thank Him that it was only 5k people and ask Him to watch over those who are in need. I do these things as they come up in my life.

I got this from a friend, a minister, who told me to train myself to thank God and praise Him daily. Eventually I got comfortable doing this with myself, then in public (because you know how people react) and now I do it when the Stros win or something good happens that makes me happy. I even pray for people here, or add the line "Please look after all those who have no one to pray for them" to my prayers (which sometimes are long, sometimes just a few words).

You can do it, Nebula. I don't mean you have to get in there and tangle with things that make you uncomfortable, but you can train yourself to let go and be confident in God. We have to force ourselves into this as it does not come natural. You might never become comfortable with really strong issues, but you will be able to get over those sneaky pictures forum users put in there to make you snark your tea through your nose. I've always felt that you hav eto overcome the hard problems though because until you do the enemy has ammunition against you. Sooner we beat out our own demons, the sooner we can help someone with theirs.

FYI - While I got a modicum of "heebies" from the picture, the first thing that went off was "Its just a picture". I mean, I kill spiders all the time. Its not like I jump onto the table and squeal like a little girl "EEEP!", though you will see me jump out of the way and make some other loud declaration that there's a spider near me (use thy imagination). Then I kill it, flush it, and go back to what I was doing. But I will get you back. Oh yes. I will. Mwahahahahahahaaaa...

[nebula]

That was mean, Nebula.

Well . . . how else was I going to get across to you how I feel?

Don't you understand - what I went through wasn't . . . .

OK, I don't like talking about this anymore because someone always has to tangle me in a theological argument over what happened - but as far as I'm concerned, there was a time I got demon-possessed (demonized, or whatever term you prefer to use). Do you have any idea what that experience was like? Well, next to my parents' divorce, it was the worst experience of my entire life. The Holy Spirit in me gave me strength to resist - but it was tougher than chewing rope, and it took a while for the thing to leave. It felt like slime sliding off me when it did. Do you think that was fun? Do you think that was pleasant? Do you think I am weak or have a lack of faith because I don't like to revisit this memory?

This conversation brought this memory back to the surface and left me in tears - and you have the audacity to call me "weak" because I don't want to see a movie about someone else's similar experience?

Bottom line - you hurt me!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do I have to show you more spider pictures until you stop?

Or to quote a famous line - While you're at it, why don't you give me a paper cut and pour lemon juice on it?

Can you understand now? Please?

[Mongo]

Nebula,

I consider the issue dead. There's nothing I can ever say to you to conclude it any other way and further discussion seems it will not be productive. I never called you "weak". You might either be reading too much into it, not grasping the intent, or reading someone else's interpretations and subplanting(?) them as my own comments.

I pray mongo never has to go through a direct demonic encounter, but he will always see people like you and me as being weak in faith unless and until he goes through the same thing.

Well, you're wrong, and you also are putting words in that I did not use.