The Beasts mark

[ruah brit]

Oh phooey!

This is why I hate the literal interpretation of that portion of Revelation. How is a social security number, that does not have the "666" mark in it anyway (thus defeating the literal application), the mark of the beast? That an absolute absurd statement. For one, this takes the assumption that the government knowing who you are is a bad things. Ethically it might be, but biblically it holds little to no consequence. We know that the Romans attempted to keep tabs on people (especially Jews), including taking a census. Joseph and Mary took part in this census. My point is sometimes things happen before we are born or are able to make our own choices. In essence, almost 100% of the people in the United States that have a SSN recieved it at birth and not of their own will. So even if we follow the absolutely absurd claim that a SSN is somehow the mark, this would mean simply being born in the US would disqualify someone from salvation and make them an inherent follower of Satan.

This is why Christians need to learn to do intellectual study of the Bible, so we can avoid such silly claims.

You can study until you are blue in the face. You can pray and fast for debate and to strike with the fists of wickedness until you faint from hunger or die. But until you ask Christ for His Spirit you have nothing except what man can teach you about how to study the meaning out of everything to accommodate your flesh. The messenger of the Lord told Daniel that the beast is a kingdom. The word for the mark is derived from a word that means the Kings signet it depicts being tubular and pressed in or down. That’s your signature with a pen. The very implication of using a signature is to swear an oath which Christ said not to do. The mark on the forehead is not even the forehead it is the back of the head or the uppermost portion of the body behind the face. The well set hair has been an abomination to God since the beginning. This is why in the Old Testament God called for baldness and a girding of sackcloth for weeping and wailing. And here it is coming around again and no one is worthy to escape it until they throw down the things of the beast and come out from among them and be separate.

Denise

[followerofjesus]

I sincerely believe you must be conscious of what your worshipping. Misguided? Confused? False religion?

There are many pitfalls. The oath sworn makes it official. The choice of us is really whats important not the method chosen.

[apothanein kerdos]

Well Ruah, you're living proof of why we need to study and grow in the intelligence of scripture...if not then we end up believing fanatical and unfounded doctrines like you.

You can study until you are blue in the face. You can pray and fast for debate and to strike with the fists of wickedness until you faint from hunger or die. But until you ask Christ for His Spirit you have nothing except what man can teach you about how to study the meaning out of everything to accommodate your flesh.

For one, as I said, man is comprised of three things. Body (heart), mind, and soul. All three are to work together in order to function correctly. THus when I say "we must study" it is inherently implied we must use the other two aspects of our creation, both physical and spiritual, whilst seeking God. The fact remains though, that studying includes intelligence, emotions, and massive ammounts of prayer. The conclusion is ALWAYS logical because God created logic and also created the world to function off of logic. In essence, if our conclusions have no logic or textual support behind them, then we have come to the wrong conclusion.

The word for the mark is derived from a word that means the Kings signet it depicts being tubular and pressed in or down. That

[ruah brit]

For one, as I said, man is comprised of three things. Body (heart), mind, and soul. All three are to work together in order to function correctly. THus when I say "we must study" it is inherently implied we must use the other two aspects of our creation, both physical and spiritual, whilst seeking God.

What you said above is all wrong. Man is comprised of the breath of Life from God and the dust of the ground which together makes a soul. You also can not use the heart of flesh to find God because the heart is deceitful above all things and is set on evil continualy and the flesh profits nothing. This is why you must give up the flesh and the spirit of man to follow Christ.

Ge 6

5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Jer 17

9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?

Joh 6

63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

Mt 16

24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.

Ro 8

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

This is what I mean by intelligent study...because you're FAR off. For one, the word here does not mean, "marked by kings". Instead it is more often used in the New Testament a stamp or an imprinted mark (not a signature) that would be pressed onto hot wax, to show that something was official. This isn't a banishment against marks themselves, but against the mark of the Beast. After all, if it is banishment against all marks, then God is evil and of the antirchrist (according to you) when he marks (charagma) the 144,000. Instead Revelation is clear that is is not the mark that is evil, but instead what the mark represents

The Cavragma was a kings seal to official documents. And I did not say that a king was going to put his mark on anyone because everyone here is a king puting their mark on what ever they choose. I have never said or implied that God is evil in any way shape or form. If God would be evil to you if He choses to do anything then that is your opinion and not mine.

Denise

[yomotalking]

Seriously, you think that it will be sudden, and not gradual?

[apothanein kerdos]

I beg to differ.

Intelligence has NOTHING---to do with Faith.

matter of fact, Faith is almost entirely dependent with no intelligence.

Intelligence, is needed in determining for ones self

faith is needed in determining which way God wants it to be---most of the time without "reasoning"---

Just ACTING.

when it comes to intelligence SHEEP ARE STUPID.

when it comes to faith---SHEEP LEAD THE WAY.

Yeah, that's completely wrong. Faith is intelligence...anything else and it's blind faith. The only way to truly know which way God is leading us is to constantly be studying His Word. The only way to constantly be studying His word, in depth, is to have some form of intelligence. Ignorance has no place in the kingdom of God. DOn't believe me? Read the Bible and find out for yourself. Love the Lord (have faith in Him) with what? All your heart, soul, and MIND.

and if a person has a limited mind based on intelligence---but still using all of it---they are Justified through faith---

like I said---stupid sheep, are more justified than hungry dogs.

If they have a limited mind then they need to expand it.

The sheep analogy of Christ was to speak of our submission to Him as a master...if anything it was to draw more of a correlation to Him as a shepherd than us as actual sheep. He definately did not mean for us to be dumb, or for faith to be dumb. If that was His purpose then His greatest mouthpiece, Paul, went against the purpose of the analogy.

I sincerely believe you must be conscious of what your worshipping. Misguided? Confused? False religion?

There are many pitfalls. The oath sworn makes it official. The choice of us is really whats important not the method chosen.

I think its amusing, some are mocking the Spirit....

Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Ro 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Ro 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

and here is one when we are STUPID....

Ro 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

GEEZ---this next one speaks much about intelligence...

1co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

and this one goes specifically for all STUPID beleivers...

1co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

1co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

1co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

notice in this next one---GOD HAS TO GIVE THE SPIRIT---TO HAVE WISDOM AND INSIGHT.

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

so much for worldly intelligence...

1jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

I highly encourage you to read my topic, "Christians and intelligence" in Controversial issues. You need it. We are not called to be stupid. To have faith is to be intelligent. To follow the Spirit is to be knowledgble. You cannot seperate them. It is essential to be intelligent in order to follow the Spirit.

[Guest duane65]

I have been a preacher, and teacher of the Word of God for many years now.

It never ceases to amaze me, how so many Christians stay hung up on petty differences.

First of all we "all" need to be highly aware of the fact that there are brand new impressionable Christians on this site. They need guidance, and proper teaching. Most of all they need proper examples, or they will see the arguing, and the backbiting, and that just could be the catalyst, for a babe in Christ to get turned off to Church, and fellowship, because of the examples exibited on these boards.

In the Bible it says not to be many teachers, for we have the greater condemnation. So if you are teaching, and putting up lessons on these boards, then you take on the role, and responsibility of recieving the greater condemnation.

Teaching God's Word, and being an example of it is a privilege. We have rights to God's promises as believers on the Blood, but teaching and preaching needs to take one more step. God has need of great leaders, not just good teachers, and preachers.

Having a constructive debate is one thing, but the things that I have read so far is out of the pits of hell. Satan came to kill, steal, and destroy. He is the accuser of the bretheren, and is the author of confusion, and the father of lies. He is having a hey-day on these boards, and it is Spirit-Filled Christians that is not taking authority over him, and letting him get away with incredible amounts of division, strife, and discord. And most of all, newer Christians are being made witness, and being subjected to it.

It might be a great idea to reread 1 Corinthians Chap 13, and get a refresher on love.

This is very simple teaching here. There isn't many 20 letter words, nor an intellectual debate on the Bible. This is very simple. Jesus is God, but He teaches very simply. We are the ones that make it hard, and their are Christians here, making it very hard for others to grow in Christ because of the examples being exibited. I also suggest rereading Galations, and touching up on the fruits of the Spirit. I plead with all here to put your thermostats on simmer, and be good teachers, but most of all good leaders, and love one another, AS GOD ALSO COMMANDED. Duane P.S. Peter, Do you love me? Yes Lord, you know that I do! Then feed my sheep.

[apothanein kerdos]

Thank you self-proclaimed monitor who knows nothing about the site for comming in and saving the day

[Guest duane65]

Thank you self-proclaimed monitor who knows nothing about the site for comming in and saving the day

Praise God. I am glad to be of help. I am happy to see that you have agreed with me about attitudes on the boards. It is good to see a thoughtful, and loving Christian. Your example is a light for all to see, and follow. God Bless you. Duane

[other one]

I have been a preacher, and teacher of the Word of God for many years now.

It never ceases to amaze me, how so many Christians stay hung up on petty differences.

First of all we "all" need to be highly aware of the fact that there are brand new impressionable Christians on this site. They need guidance, and proper teaching. Most of all they need proper examples, or they will see the arguing, and the backbiting, and that just could be the catalyst, for a babe in Christ to get turned off to Church, and fellowship, because of the examples exibited on these boards.

In the Bible it says not to be many teachers, for we have the greater condemnation. So if you are teaching, and putting up lessons on these boards, then you take on the role, and responsibility of recieving the greater condemnation.

Teaching God's Word, and being an example of it is a privilege. We have rights to God's promises as believers on the Blood, but teaching and preaching needs to take one more step. God has need of great leaders, not just good teachers, and preachers.

Having a constructive debate is one thing, but the things that I have read so far is out of the pits of hell. Satan came to kill, steal, and destroy. He is the accuser of the bretheren, and is the author of confusion, and the father of lies. He is having a hey-day on these boards, and it is Spirit-Filled Christians that is not taking authority over him, and letting him get away with incredible amounts of division, strife, and discord. And most of all, newer Christians are being made witness, and being subjected to it.

It might be a great idea to reread 1 Corinthians Chap 13, and get a refresher on love.

This is very simple teaching here. There isn't many 20 letter words, nor an intellectual debate on the Bible. This is very simple. Jesus is God, but He teaches very simply. We are the ones that make it hard, and their are Christians here, making it very hard for others to grow in Christ because of the examples being exibited. I also suggest rereading Galations, and touching up on the fruits of the Spirit. I plead with all here to put your thermostats on simmer, and be good teachers, but most of all good leaders, and love one another, AS GOD ALSO COMMANDED. Duane P.S. Peter, Do you love me? Yes Lord, you know that I do! Then feed my sheep.

Hate to break the news to you, but this is not a simple statement...... Define the term "God" Wars have been fought over simple statements like that.

Don't want to hijack the thread, but your self proclaimed moderator actions are themselves provocative to some.