Have Anyone Seen Where The Bible Speaks Of The Father And His Son?

[Roymond]

On 1/8/2023 at 12:17 PM, Neighbor said:

Hi Closest...

To expand a tiny bit before I settle in for a long winter's nap. ( The peace of the mountains has captured my physical body and my spirit after a long ln traveling day). I can expand on it but for the moment let me just start with Genesis:

And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

And then add;

"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

 And later on;

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  He was in the beginning with God.  All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.  In him was life, and the life was the light of men.  The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it."

The Bible is the reveal of Jesus to an unsaved world. The world hears not; except by the specific call to individuals by God the Holy Spirit. Jesus does His Father's will, He intercedes with his Father for us, and we are enlightened to that by God the Holy Spirit.

Rev. W.A.. Criswell authored a great testimony titled "The Scarlet Thread Of Redemption* that  pretty much covers what the Bible is and how it accomplishes what it does through reveal  of Jesus by the Holy Spirit to those that  will be turned about from  rejecting God  to turning to God. It can still be found with a bit of work on the internet.

Plus there is a video of Criswell's presentation using the same title at;

*https://wacriswell.com/sermons/1995/the-scarlet-thread-through-the-bible/?keywords=scarlet+thread+of+redemption Might see the video there, but also in the Criswell Study Bible the text of the scarlet thread of redemption is published within the forward.

That book of Criswell's should be required reading in every seminary in the world.

 

 

[Roymond]

On 1/8/2023 at 2:12 PM, Walter and Deborah said:

Yes other one, The reason being we believe the Holy Spirit is the Father.

The Holy Spirit can't be the Father.  Jesus tells us to baptize in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit -- three, not two.  And at His Baptism the Father spoke while the Spirit descended -- three, not two.  And more than once Paul names all three distinctly -- three, not two.

[Roymond]

On 1/8/2023 at 4:30 PM, Vine Abider said:

Of course we're delving into a mystery I don't think we can solve . . .

So let's throw 1st Corinthians 15:45 in here: "The last Adam became a life-giving Spirit."  Is this Spirit different than the Comforter?

In context, Paul is using "spirit" in contrast to "natural":  Adam became a "living soul", i.e. he was given life into an earthly body,  but Jesus "became a life-giving spirit" -- He didn't need to be given life because He is the Life, and He wasn't just of an earthly body, He was heavenly at the same time and was declared to be heavenly by the Resurrection.  "Spirit" covers the words "immortality", glory", "power", and finally "spiritual" which is the link:  these things are spiritual things, which pertain to the "life-giving spirit", as opposed to the natural things.

I'm going to go out on a bit of a limb here and note that the Greek here is a tiny bit odd because the way Paul writes it makes it sound like the whole statement is a quote; normally he would write "for" or -- more likely here -- "but" or "yet" to indicate the contrast, but instead he launches right into a statement that is not part of a quote almost as if he's treating it as one (and scholars have searched for centuries for such a statement anywhere at all in Jewish writings but with no luck).  We should read it with a pause there to distinguish between quote and declaration, but I'm thinking that Paul plows right on ahead to keep the contrasting words close together -- first, last; man, spirit.  So it isn't so much "a spirit" as "a spiritual being", which if Paul had written that out would have taken away the beautiful balance he made here.

[Roymond]

On 1/8/2023 at 4:40 PM, Vine Abider said:

Makes sense, or at least s much sense as one can humanly grasp!  Romans 8:9-11 is an interesting example where it is hard to tell Who is the Spirit, or which of the Godhead is in us - is it the Father; us it the Son; or is it the Spirit.  And the only answer seems to be "yes!" 

But I think the point is that we don't see so much about the relationship of the HS as we do the relationship between the Father and the Son.

The Holy Spirit's whole "job" with respect to us is to glorify Christ; He doesn't want attention, He wants Jesus to have the attention.

[Roymond]

On 1/8/2023 at 7:35 PM, Vine Abider said:

Yes, it would seem the HS is for us and so we can experience God (in us).  Is the HS Christ in us?

There's a theological term here that I'm blanking on, but it basically means that the Trinity is never divided, so that if the Holy Spirit is in us then so is Jesus and so is the Father. 

But the New Testament doesn't say so much about Jesus being in us as it does about us being in Jesus -- that's our "place" in the eyes of the Father and in the work of the Spirit.

[Michael37]

9 minutes ago, Roymond said:

There's a theological term here that I'm blanking on, but it basically means that the Trinity is never divided, so that if the Holy Spirit is in us then so is Jesus and so is the Father. 

But the New Testament doesn't say so much about Jesus being in us as it does about us being in Jesus -- that's our "place" in the eyes of the Father and in the work of the Spirit.

Co-equal/Co-eternal/Consubstantial

All good 🙂

[Vine Abider]

4 hours ago, Roymond said:

There's a theological term here that I'm blanking on, but it basically means that the Trinity is never divided, so that if the Holy Spirit is in us then so is Jesus and so is the Father. 

But the New Testament doesn't say so much about Jesus being in us as it does about us being in Jesus -- that's our "place" in the eyes of the Father and in the work of the Spirit.

Hard for us to figure out, to be sure! And there are a number of verses pertaining specifically te Christ in us.  And a good place to see all three of the Godhead in us is Romans 8:9-11.

[Vine Abider]

4 hours ago, Roymond said:

The Holy Spirit's whole "job" with respect to us is to glorify Christ; He doesn't want attention, He wants Jesus to have the attention.

I've heard that, and it seems it's not without support in scripture. 

[Neighbor]

5 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Co-equal/Co-eternal/Consubstantial

"Co-Equal" 

In what sense?

I ask because that is often stated; yet Christ Jesus states He does not do his own will but instead does his Father's will. Luke 22:42 for example.

Seems to me Jesus did not do on his own will. He did willingly however his Father's will. Therefore, to me, the idea of co-equal has to come with some qualifying parameter.

Same is true of the Holy Spirit, and his agency or work. The Holy Spirit  is separate from the Father and separate from the Son.

The Holy Spirit has the separate  agency by which the Son is revealed to all that are given to the son by the Father.

Without that reveal and the call by the Holy Spirit no one comes to the Son nor the Father.

Each Holy member being both one and three, triune in character, being without beginning nor end, being separate in person and purpose yet in one another,  each more than an attribute of God, each is a distinct personage that is one God.

To see one Holy member is to see the other two for each are in the other. If a person does not see the three they do not see the one.

And yet without a bit of awareness of any of the three, God can and will call to Himself those He wills  be called upon to be received by Him through His son's sacrifice and the specific call  from the Holy Spirit. Seen by him as perfect, washed white as snow. God having  reconciled the impossibility of that which is imperfect (Sin) through the willing sacrifice made by Jesus (Whom is perfect) and testified to via the Holy Spirit, to all that are to hear and heed that testimony and then to turn about from denying God and his will to seeing and heeding his will. God having taken upon himself that which He cannot abide at all (Sin) to welcome many to Him all at His choosing, and not by the will  and good works of any kind  men at all.

That call made through the Holy Spirit leads to the love of Jesus in whom the Father is well pleased. All so that many may also become the fruit, after the first fruits the sacrifice  Jesus.

Without that  sacrifice all would perish, under the Holy and just wrath of God. For none would be able to be seen as perfect, nor seen as acceptable, in the sight of Holy God.

To wrap up; co-necessary yes! Co-equal, I don't see that being the case as each has a specific role in what  is called the Godhead, a single entity undivided yet triune.

Praise God for his mercy from everlasting to everlasting; amen.

[Michael37]

4 hours ago, Neighbor said:

"Co-Equal" 

In what sense?

I ask because that is often stated; yet Christ Jesus states He does not do his own will but instead does his Father's will. Luke 22:42 for example.

Seems to me Jesus did not do on his own will. He did willingly however his Father's will. Therefore, to me, the idea of co-equal has to come with some qualifying parameter.

Same is true of the Holy Spirit, and his agency or work. The Holy Spirit  is separate from the Father and separate from the Son.

The Holy Spirit has the separate  agency by which the Son is revealed to all that are given to the son by the Father.

Without that reveal and the call by the Holy Spirit no one comes to the Son nor the Father.

Each Holy member being both one and three, triune in character, being without beginning nor end, being separate in person and purpose yet in one another,  each more than an attribute of God, each is a distinct personage that is one God.

To see one Holy member is to see the other two for each are in the other. If a person does not see the three they do not see the one.

And yet without a bit of awareness of any of the three, God can and will call to Himself those He wills  be called upon to be received by Him through His son's sacrifice and the specific call  from the Holy Spirit. Seen by him as perfect, washed white as snow. God having  reconciled the impossibility of that which is imperfect (Sin) through the willing sacrifice made by Jesus (Whom is perfect) and testified to via the Holy Spirit, to all that are to hear and heed that testimony and then to turn about from denying God and his will to seeing and heeding his will. God having taken upon himself that which He cannot abide at all (Sin) to welcome many to Him all at His choosing, and not by the will  and good works of any kind  men at all.

That call made through the Holy Spirit leads to the love of Jesus in whom the Father is well pleased. All so that many may also become the fruit, after the first fruits the sacrifice  Jesus.

Without that  sacrifice all would perish, under the Holy and just wrath of God. For none would be able to be seen as perfect, nor seen as acceptable, in the sight of Holy God.

To wrap up; co-necessary yes! Co-equal, I don't see that being the case as each has a specific role in what  is called the Godhead, a single entity undivided yet triune.

Praise God for his mercy from everlasting to everlasting; amen.

Philippians 2:6 for further discussion. What did Christ empty Himself of?