Daniel 9:24-27: When?

[WilliamL]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

I'm saying Jesus said to look to Daniel for the description of the A of D, not that Daniel's A of D from Ch.9

Excellent article about the authority of the MT vs. the LXX texts (below), which concludes:

"Based on the overwhelming conformity of these Qumran Daniel manuscripts with each other and with the MT, despite the few insignificant variants that agree with the Septuagint, it is evident that the MT is the well-preserved key text for the book of Daniel. An eclectic approach, using the Hebrew/Aramaic text, the Greek, and other versions as if they were all on the same level without giving priority to the Hebrew text is no longer supportable, if it ever was previously. The Hebrew/Aramaic Masoretic text of the book of Daniel now has stronger support than at any other time in the history of the interpretation of the book of Daniel."

https://biblearchaeology.org/research/topics/ancient-manuscripts/3193-new-light-on-the-book-of-daniel-from-the-dead-sea-scrolls

[WilliamL]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

Right, so where did Jesus get this quote in Daniel?

You didn't read the post I just wrote you??? Was answered there.

[Uriah]

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Was answered there.

Dan 12:11- And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days....

You mean this? Jesus was telling people to look for something from the past?

Antiochus Epiphanes Profanes the Temple, December 16, 156 BC

https://landmarkevents.org/assets/images/general/dropcaps/a-retina.pngnumber of important historical events occurred in the period between the Old Testament and the New Testament (c. 420 B.C.—1 A.D.), called by Protestants the “intertestamental” period and by Roman Catholics the “deuterocanonical” era. During those four centuries, one of the greatest warrior kings of history arose—Alexander the Great, and his Not-So-Great successors, the Diadoche—four of Alexander’s generals who divided up his empire for themselves, after his death in 323 BC. One of the most aggressive and successful leaders, ...............

[WilliamL]

2 hours ago, Uriah said:

Dan 12:11- And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days....

You mean this? Jesus was telling people to look for something from the past?

You have some very strange ideas about Daniel.

Everything from Dan. 11:40 onward is "at the time of the end..." Including all of Daniel 12.

[Uriah]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

You have some very strange ideas about Daniel

Strange? No. In the minority? Yup. To be consistent, it belongs to be understood like it is shown in;

Dan 8:17-  So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Preceding this verse Daniel is told about the sacrifices being taken away, After this verse it is revealed that symbology refer to Media, Persia and Grecia. 

The meaning then, is the time of the end of the vision. It is points to Antiochus, who defiled the temple sacrificing a pig (NOT in the "Holy Place)" at the alter and had a stature of himself installed. 

In Dan 11:41, countries that no longer exist, "shall escape out of his hand." ?? And does this mean that the A/C will live in a tent? (11:45)

And the number of days, (1,335) are seen as pointing to the time when it was learned of the death of Antiochus.

And as for "At that time" in Dan 12:1, it is a transliteration that could just as easily  (as it is elsewhere) used to say it differently. It consists of one word, (ʿēṯ ) used twice in succession.

In my opinion it looks the way it does for expediency, because it is glaringly a sentence that has no preposition nor prepositional phrase as the ones that commonly say, "at that time" which is so commonly used that it looks like translators used it to play it safe, so to speak.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 3/1/2023 at 7:14 AM, Uriah said:

Am I missing something? These verses don't indicate if it is a Jew or Gentile. All I see is that the a/c is a anti religious God hating Satanic tyrant. I think the image I posted shows what a mocker he is, not pretending to be a Messiah.

 

If there arise among you (Jews) a prophet or a dreamer of dreams
and gives you a sign or a wonder. And the sign or wonder comes to pass....
for the Lord your God tests you to see whether you love the Lord your God.
Deuteronomy 13:1-3
 

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets,
and shall show great signs and wonders;
insomuch that, if it were possible,
they would deceive the very elect.
[But] Behold, I have told you [elect] before.

Matthew 24:24-25.

....And with all unrighteous deception among them that perish;
because they received not the love of the truth, that they may be saved.
And for this reason shall God send them, strong delusion  [Deut. 13:3]
such that they believe the lie.   [The Satanic lie; Genesis 3:4]

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4,9, 10-11

...And he deceives them that dwell on earth
by the means of those miracles which he was granted to do  [Deut. 13:3]
in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on earth,
that they should make an image to the beast
that had a wound by a sword and did live....

Revelation 13:11-18

And so we see clearly that the anti-Chrst is a great deception.
 

 

An obvious Gentile tyrant, specifically an Islamic tyrant
causing the middle east to all bow down to allah,
and trying to force the whole world to do so,
would in no way deceive the whole entire world.
When seeming Jesus comes gloriously
defeating an Islamic tyrant the world has been fighting against,
with fire from the sky, many people would be deceived by that.

Indeed many believe that an Islamic tyrant will be the anti-Christ.
But the mark and image of the beast is a world wide deception, [Rev 13:14]
everyone on earth not being able to buy or sell without it. [Rev 13:16-17]
Clearly Revelation 13:14 says it happens due to deception,
0ne is not forced to do it, just that the world can't buy or sell without the mark,
and it's by deceptive miracles that both it and worship of the image are instituted.

Something happening mainly in just the middle east,
and mainly only deceiving a certain group of people,
does not fit with the clear world wide deception that Revelation 13:14-18
clearly states and that Paul and Christ speak of.

 

 

[Diaste]

22 hours ago, WilliamL said:

The words "the abomination of desolation" do not exist in the Hebrew text of verse 27! You are using a false translation.

I don't think the KJV is a false translation.

It's not so much the exact word string doesn't appear[it kinda does], it's the idea that's critical.

If the act by AE IV is the A of D from Dan 11:31, and it is, and it is said of this, "They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation.", and this fulfillment came by AE IV between 169-167 BC, as it's the nearest fulfillment, then Dan 9 does speak to the abomination of desolation.

Dan 9; "but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation,"

Dan 11; "They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation"

That's not only similar language but the actions of abolishing the daily sacrifice are identical. 

And if we look at the Daniel 9:27 parallels from several 'translations' we see they all carry the same idea. I can post them if you like.

Even as I agree with you mostly about the A of D and it's interpretation, it's undeniable in my mind Dan 9:27 is an A of D; one we should look to, as charged by Jesus, for information about the A of D. 

 

 

 

[Diaste]

8 hours ago, Uriah said:

 

Preceding this verse Daniel is told about the sacrifices being taken away, 

 

Interesting. I had forgotten about this. Makes me think the daily sacrifice being taken away is a critical component of this coming moment. The daily sacrifice being taken away is mentioned several times in Daniel and Joel. 

[farouk]

10 minutes ago, Diaste said:

I don't think the KJV is a false translation.

It's not so much the exact word string doesn't appear[it kinda does], it's the idea that's critical.

If the act by AE IV is the A of D from Dan 11:31, and it is, and it is said of this, "They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation.", and this fulfillment came by AE IV between 169-167 BC, as it's the nearest fulfillment, then Dan 9 does speak to the abomination of desolation.

Dan 9; "but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation,"

Dan 11; "They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation"

That's not only similar language but the actions of abolishing the daily sacrifice are identical. 

And if we look at the Daniel 9:27 parallels from several 'translations' we see they all carry the same idea. I can post them if you like.

Even as I agree with you mostly about the A of D and it's interpretation, it's undeniable in my mind Dan 9:27 is an A of D; one we should look to, as charged by Jesus, for information about the A of D. 

 

 

 

@Diaste I too appreciate the KJV...

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 3/1/2023 at 8:15 AM, WilliamL said:

Biblical prophecy as a whole, including OT prophecy, covers all time up to the new heavens and earth. If you think that is what  verse 24 means...then you have one really unique interpretation of when the 70 weeks will be fulfilled!!

That is indeed what verse 24 clearly declares. It speaks of 4,900 years of time.

It's not 70 weeks, it's 70 captivities. Daniel 9:2 - 9:13-14 is the context.
Daniel was concerned about the captivity he was in and the resulting
imminent destruction of Jerusalem,
Gabriel tells Daniel that 70 such captivities would happen.

And we can see multiple captivities; 70 AD, 1090 AD, and 1967.

Seventy captivities are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

to finish the transgression,

and to make an end of sins,

and to make reconciliation for iniquity,

and to bring in everlasting righteousness,

[new heaven and earth, no more death,
real actual spiritual and physical eternal righteousness
Rev 22:3]

and to seal up the vision and the prophecy,

[literally seal it up, the vision, and the prophecy,
no more need to speak of the future]

and to anoint the Most Holy.

[As King of kings and Lord of lords]