Daniel 9:24-27: When?

[WilliamL]

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1611-daniel-924-27-examined-part-7-were-verses-26b-27-fulfilled-historically/

Nothing in the passage of Daniel 9:24-27 can be demonstrated to have any unequivocal prophetic message for OUR time, despite the great deal of hype to the contrary. It doesn’t mention at all

– any “abomination of desolation of the Holy Place [Sanctuary]” (Matt. 24:15; cf. Deut. 7:25-26 and Dan. 11:31);

– the time of the end/latter time/latter days, or any similar term;

– the Great Tribulation/“time of trouble such as never was” (Dan. 12:1);

– the saints, or any flight of God’s people;

– Messiah’s coming in the clouds, Divine Judgment, and/or the establishment of God’s kingdom;

– the King of the North’s or the Little Horn’s demise;

– or the raising of the dead.

These topics are discussed elsewhere in Daniel’s End Time prophecies. Why are none of them found here? Because this is not a prophecy about the end of the Church Age, but rather about the end of the Jewish Age. Remember, Gabriel said that this prophecy of 70 weeks was to be “upon thy [Danielʼs] people,” that is, “my [Danielʼs] people Israel,” and no one else. Dan. 9:24, 20

[Revelation Man]

On 1/9/2023 at 4:00 PM, WilliamL said:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1611-daniel-924-27-examined-part-7-were-verses-26b-27-fulfilled-historically/

Nothing in the passage of Daniel 9:24-27 can be demonstrated to have any unequivocal prophetic message for OUR time, despite the great deal of hype to the contrary. It doesn’t mention at all

– any “abomination of desolation of the Holy Place [Sanctuary]” (Matt. 24:15; cf. Deut. 7:25-26 and Dan. 11:31);

– the time of the end/latter time/latter days, or any similar term;

– the Great Tribulation/“time of trouble such as never was” (Dan. 12:1);

– the saints, or any flight of God’s people;

– Messiah’s coming in the clouds, Divine Judgment, and/or the establishment of God’s kingdom;

– the King of the North’s or the Little Horn’s demise;

– or the raising of the dead.

These topics are discussed elsewhere in Daniel’s End Time prophecies. Why are none of them found here? Because this is not a prophecy about the end of the Church Age, but rather about the end of the Jewish Age. Remember, Gabriel said that this prophecy of 70 weeks was to be “upon thy [Danielʼs] people,” that is, “my [Danielʼs] people Israel,” and no one else. Dan. 9:24, 20

You are missing the very phrase in the last verse, which tells us it's very timing. Also, this Prophecy has to come to pass in full before all of these things pointed out in the Prophecy can be fulfilled. So, the six points in the prophecy demand a Messianic leader to lead the Jews into the Kingdom Age if and when they are all fulfilled, so in other words, these six goals can not be fulfilled until the Messiah takes over. I will show the last verse below, but I want to dissect the verses in full, the bible had no verses nor chapters, did the English (KJV) translators divide the verses correctly? I contend the last three verses should only be two verses. So, I will post it as it was meant to be written by Daniel, and the Angel, in my humble opinion.

Dan. 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to (1)finish the transgression, and to (2)make an end of sins, and to (3)make reconciliation for iniquity, and to (4)bring in everlasting righteousness, and to (5)seal up the vision and prophecy, and to (6)anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks(69 WEEKS): the street shall be built again, and the wall(49 YEARS or 7 x 7), even in troublous times. [26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself(434 years or 62 x 7): { In total 434 + 49 = 483 years.}

{{ 26 should START HERE with NO VERSE 27}} and the people(Romans/E.U today) of the prince that shall come (The coming Anti-Christ 2000 years later) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary(in 70 AD); and the end thereof shall be with a flood(Roman Army in 70 AD), and unto the end of the war desolations are determined(2000 year Diaspora). 27 And he(Anti-Christ) shall confirm(Gabar = Force/Insolence) the covenant(Agreement) with many (Many Nations not just Israel) for one week(7 years): and in the midst of the week(close to the center, NOT the exact middle 1260 but the 1290 0r 30 days BEFORE the middle) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease(He puts pressure on the False Prophet, a Jewish High Priest to STOP Jesus Worship), and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So, the very last part of the last verse gives us the timing, the HE, or Anti-Christ will do all of those wicked things in verse 27 (which should be verse 26) he arises from the Europeans who destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD. HE forces an Agreement on Israel and MANY Countries in the Mediterranean Sea Region (MSR) for 7 years. Then in the midst NOT in the exact middle, else God would have stated middle, but at the 1290, this coming Anti-Christ (HE) puts pressure (CAUSES) on the Israeli leaders who are by now a part of the E.U. (that's the Agreement) to stop Jesus Worship (HE causes the Sacrifice who is Jesus and the oblation unto Jesus to STOP). Then 30 days later HE will attack when God's Wrath falls at the 1260, only then is HE allowed to go forth conquering, that is why the 1290 can not be the coming Anti-Christ. 

Daniel’s 70 Weeks Decree against Israel

In Daniel 9:24, Daniel prophesied that these six things must come to pass before this judgment against Israel would be fulfilled. Some think Jesus fulfilled all of these, most seem to think, as I do, that these things have not come to pass, and when they do that will be the end of the world (aion) or age Matthew 24:3.

1. Finish the transgression ( Israel has to repent as a nation for their sins or transgressions against God )
2. Make and end of sins (Israel will have to stop "Willful Sins" against God )
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity ( Israel must Atone for their sins via the blood of Jesus )
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness ( Jesus has to bring in his Everlasting Rule via his 1000 year reign )
5. To seal up vision and prophecy ( All Prophecy has to be fulfilled/closed up before the 70th week can pass)
6. Anoint the most Holy ( I think this means Jesus is anointed King of Kings and Lord of lords )

1. The Hebrew word used for transgression denotes revolt or rebellion. The Jewish people chose to reject God, many chose to stay in Babylon once they were freed. It also denotes their rejection of Jesus Christ. Jesus prophesied in Matthew 23:39 that the Jewish people would not see him again until they accepted him with open arms. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. So in order for Jesus to return, Israel has to repent of their rejection of God and Jesus, and Israel will open their hearts to the Messiah, as Paul, Isaiah and Zechariah (Zechariah 12:10) prophesied, amongst others.

2. This is fairly straightforward, "willful sins" can only end when the millennial reign starts, so by the time this 70th week decree is over, Jesus will have returned to set up his kingdom, ushering in the millennial kingdom where there will be no willful sins, Jesus will rule with a rod of iron. Since the tribulation week is the last week of the 70 weeks decree, that makes perfect sense, as soon as the tribulation period ends, or the “time of Jacob’s trouble”, then “willful sins" will end also.

3. Israel has to be reconciled unto God before the 70 weeks have been fulfilled. There is no doubt that Jesus died for all of our sins, thus the atonement for sins has been made, but there is a conditional requirement for all of us to receive that atonement, we must accept Jesus as our Savior by faith alone. When Israel accepts the Messiah Jesus, as their Messiah, then the atonement for sins will have been completed, and Israel will have been reconciled unto God, thereby ushering in the millennial kingdom. We see the Jews repent in Zechariah 13:8-9. 

4. This 70 week decree has to bring in everlasting righteousness, and we know this can not happen until Jesus sets up his Kingdom. This world has always had sin, and always will until Jesus is Lord of lords and King of kings. By the time Daniels prophecy ends, it must usher in everlasting righteousness. Willful sins will end. 

5. Seal up vision and prophecy, the word used here denotes to close up, meaning that before this 70th week can come to an end, all prophecy must be fulfilled or closed up. This will only happen when Israel accepts Jesus as their Messiah and he lands on Mt. Zion to rule over this wicked world with a rod of iron setting up the Kingdom age that will last for 1000 years.

6. The very last goal that this 70 weeks prophecy has to usher in is the anointing of the most holy. The bible says most holy, many try to add holy place, but whether it is the temple being anointed, or Jesus Christ as Lord of lords and Kings of kings as I suspect, we know this must happen before the 70 weeks decree is fulfilled. And Jesus must return and rule on earth.

All six of these things have to happen before this prophecy is fulfilled. These are six spiritual goals or prophetic utterances that have to come to pass or this prophecy will not be finished or sealed up. We know these things have not come to pass yet, but we also know they are very near to happening, therefore watch, for Israel is now a nation again, and the world is against her, soon she will need her Messiah's help, then she will call upon him, and he will save her from this wicked world.

But as concerning the OP, Dan. 27 shows the HE (Anti-Christ) will conquer Israel and the Many (MSR), those Six Bullet Points shown in Daniel 9:24:-27 can only come to pass via the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ my brother. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Revelation Man

[almost6,000]

Hi Revelation man.

You have said above  "Those Six Bullet Points shown in Daniel 9:24:-27 can only come to pass via the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ...".

I have to disagree with this "via" the 2nd coming if you mean fulfillment even then still awaits in an absolute sense? For I would postpone the full fulfillment of all 6 points until the 3rd coming of Messiah 1,000-years after His 2nd advent when He will make the forever and ever brand new heaven and earth. And "comes down" in the Heavenly Jerusalem to dwell with man forever.

The atoning work of His 1st coming gave the foundation and partial fulfillment for the 6 prophecies. The 2nd coming brings them to greater fulfillment. But it is not until the Brand new Heaven and Earth is to be created and dwelt in immediately after the final judgment of the great white throne, that all 6 prophecies are fully fulfilled for Daniel's native (and ingrafted) people and The Holy City.

If accepted, this means that there is much more to Dan 9:24 than traditionally meets the eye of interpretation. The full fulfillment of the 6 prophecies is progressively achieved in stages over thousands of years, as may also be true for the 7`s 7`s??

[R. Hartono]

On 1/10/2023 at 5:00 AM, WilliamL said:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1611-daniel-924-27-examined-part-7-were-verses-26b-27-fulfilled-historically/

Nothing in the passage of Daniel 9:24-27 can be demonstrated to have any unequivocal prophetic message for OUR time, despite the great deal of hype to the contrary. It doesn’t mention at all

– any “abomination of desolation of the Holy Place [Sanctuary]” (Matt. 24:15; cf. Deut. 7:25-26 and Dan. 11:31);

– the time of the end/latter time/latter days, or any similar term;

– the Great Tribulation/“time of trouble such as never was” (Dan. 12:1);

– the saints, or any flight of God’s people;

– Messiah’s coming in the clouds, Divine Judgment, and/or the establishment of God’s kingdom;

– the King of the North’s or the Little Horn’s demise;

– or the raising of the dead.

These topics are discussed elsewhere in Daniel’s End Time prophecies. Why are none of them found here? Because this is not a prophecy about the end of the Church Age, but rather about the end of the Jewish Age. Remember, Gabriel said that this prophecy of 70 weeks was to be “upon thy [Danielʼs] people,” that is, “my [Danielʼs] people Israel,” and no one else. Dan. 9:24, 20

God returns the mandate of salvation to Israel at the fullness of gentiles, by sending 2 OT prophets and the 144k, means the church is already raptured and replaced.

[almost6,000]

What makes you think that the mandate to Israel was ever taken away from Israel? There is however no contention with me about God returning the mandate of Israel's FULL possession and rule of the Land (at the beginning of a great Yovel year) at the end of the fullness of gentiles. IF, you mean this transitional event happens at the END of the times of the Gentiles when the full number of Gentiles has come in and All Israel is "saved/redeemed".

All these things happen at the end of Daniel's soon-coming 70th week, at the end of the/this Age which is at the end of the 6,000th year from creation. Or if you like, at the beginning of the 1,000-year, 7th "Day" Messianic Kingdom on earth when the power of the holy people has finally been fully broken and ALL Israel believes when they see the Son of Man returning as king of kings. Then the times of the Gentiles has finished and the time of Israel's glorious rule over all other nations begins because of national repentance and trust in Yeshua.

Note: The times of the Gentiles started from Daniel's deportation to Babylon when Israel/Jerusalem was 1st subjugated to a Gentile world power. This subjugation under control of any Gentile world power does not end until Antichrist, his capital city and kingdom is destroyed and replaced by Messiah's stone/kingdom rule for 1,000-years.

Previous to the establishment of the millennial kingdom, God indeed does send 2 powerful witnesses in the likeness of 2 OT prophets. One of whom comes in the likeness and power of Elijah. And Just like Elijah's ministry and also John the baptist's ministry, the 2-witnesses will be as groomsmen of the groom. Preparing the way of the Lord and getting His fiaunce`/wife ready to meet the returning Groom/King to be fully wedded. But in the time of the 2-witnesses ministry, the Gentiles will trample outside the Holy of Holies temple for 42-months still under the power/control of the Gentiles.

As for the 144,000 Male Hebrews of 12,000 each from the 12 tribes of Israel, I believe they come to faith and are sealed very late in the 7 years of Daniel's 70th week of increased tribulations. They are teaching priests who will be the functioning priesthood for the ministry of the coming newly built millennial temple and follow the Lamb wherever He goes. They do not suffer physical death and purify themselves in part by willing abstinence from sexual relations for 10-days and become dedicated and ritually clean for temple service.

From immediately after the Tishri-1 resurrection/rapture it is 10-days until King Messiah's coming to earth on Tishri-10 the great day of Atonement. The 144,000 are the first fruits of the millennial priesthood and of the post-Tishri-1 rapture harvest of mortal believers on earth to populate the millennium and receive the literal fulfillments of God's many covenants of promise.

[Keras]

                   Daniel 9:24 Seventy sevens are decreed for your people and your holy city – to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, vision and prophecy ratified and the Most Holy place anointed.

Daniel 9:25-27 Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Anointed One, the ruler comes – there will be seven sevens and sixty two sevens. It will be rebuilt with streets and drains, but in troubled times. After the 62 sevens, the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come, will destroy the city and sanctuary.   The end will come like a flood. War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. He will confirm a covenant with the many for one ‘seven’. In the middle of the seven, he will put an end to the sacrifice and offering. In the Temple, he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out upon him.                                    

Verse 24 - The Angel Gabriel’s message for the end of this age:            

1/To complete and finalize the transgressions of the wicked peoples.[Time of the Gentiles]

2/ To make an end to disobedience against God. [Punishment of His enemies]

3/ To make reconciliation for iniquity.  [Redemption for His righteous people]

4/ To usher in the age of Righteousness.  [The Christians– ‘a light to the nations’]

5/ To fulfil prophesy. [The promises to the Patriarchs and to all 12 tribe Israel]

6/ To sanctify the Temple. [The Third Temple, built by the people of Beulah; Isaiah 62:1-5]

 

Verse 25: 70 times 7 = 490 years. The first 7 ‘weeks’ = 49 years, starts from the commandment to rebuild Jerusalem in the 20th year of the reign of Artaxerxes. This was in 445BC. Jerusalem’s walls and streets were rebuilt ‘even in troublous times’.  As Nehemiah and Ezra describe.

Verse 26 Then another 62 ‘weeks’ = 434 years, plus the 49, makes a total of 483 prophetic years until ‘Messiah, the Prince, is cut off’.

‘There shall be nothing for Him’, means that at that time He did not receive the Millennium Kingdom. ‘The people of the ruler to come, will destroy Jerusalem, including the Temple’, refers to the Roman destruction in 69/70AD.

 

Then, there has been a gap of nearly 2000 years, till the present day.

The end period; the 70th of the 7 ‘weeks’ = 7 years will be made up of 2 periods of 1260 days each. It will be the closing time of this age, ‘the end shall be with a flood’.

Flood is better translated as – an overflowing; of troubles.   2 Thessalonians 2:8

Verse 27 The Anti Christ will make a 7 year treaty with the ‘many’. That is, the holy people of God: every born again Christian, living in their own Land. There will be a faithful group who will oppose this agreement, so this treaty is made with many, but not all of His people, the Christian Israelites of God. Daniel 11:32, Isaiah 28:14-15.

The Anti-Christ will break this after 1260 days, Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:1-8, which will commence the Great Tribulation.  He sets up his own image in the Temple, 2 Thessalonians 2:4, then after the final 1260 days, he will meet his end.  Daniel 11:45, Revelation 19:20.

                                                                                     

 

[WilliamL]

On 1/9/2023 at 6:23 PM, Revelation Man said:

In Daniel 9:24, Daniel prophesied that these six things must come to pass before this judgment against Israel would be fulfilled. Some think Jesus fulfilled all of these, most seem to think, as I do, that these things have not come to pass, and when they do that will be the end of the world (aion) or age Matthew 24:3.

1. Finish the transgression ( Israel has to repent as a nation for their sins or transgressions against God )
2. Make and end of sins (Israel will have to stop "Willful Sins" against God )
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity ( Israel must Atone for their sins via the blood of Jesus )
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness ( Jesus has to bring in his Everlasting Rule via his 1000 year reign )
5. To seal up vision and prophecy ( All Prophecy has to be fulfilled/closed up before the 70th week can pass)
6. Anoint the most Holy ( I think this means Jesus is anointed King of Kings and Lord of lords )

1. "The pesha/transgression/apostasy" refers to the same one foretold earlier, in Gabriel's prophecy to Daniel in Chapter 8. This prophecy is merely a completion of that one, which was interpreted when Daniel fainted. 8:27 This apostasy within the priesthood came to an end during the time of Christ, when the Temple was destroyed: that ended it.

As to your other points, here is a more accurate rendering of the verse:

Daniel 9:24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed/determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

(in order) to utterly restrain/restrict the rebellion/transgression/apostasy,

and (in order) to close up/seal up sins/sin offerings or (in order) to cause to complete sin/sin offering,

and (in order) to utterly atone for iniquity, and to cause to bring in everlasting righteousness,

and (in order) to close up vision and prophecy,

and (in order) to anoint a Most Holy One.”

All of these things, including up through 9:27, were fulfilled in the first century AD with the coming of Christ and the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. Verse 24 is explained full here:

38. Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 1: Verse 24

Begins a seven-part series about this highly controversial prophecy. A detailed translation from the Hebrew is provided for each verse, with the relevant Hebrew grammar explained, beginning here with verse 24. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1568-daniel-924-27-examined-part-1-verse-24/

 

[WilliamL]

On 1/9/2023 at 6:23 PM, Revelation Man said:

[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself(434 years or 62 x 7): { In total 434 + 49 = 483 years.}

{{ 26 should START HERE with NO VERSE 27}} and the people(Romans/E.U today) of the prince that shall come (The coming Anti-Christ 2000 years later) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary(In 70 AD); and the end thereof shall be with a flood(Roman Army in 70 AD), and unto the end of the war desolations are determined(2000 year Diaspora). 27 And he shall confirm(Gabar = Force/Insolence) the covenant(Agreement) with many (Many Nations not just Israel) for one week(7 years): and in the midst of the week(close to the center, NOT the exact middle 1260 but the 1290 0r 30 days BEFORE the middle) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease(He puts pressure on the False Prophet, a Jewish High Priest to STOP Jesus Worship), and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So, the very last part of the last verse gives is the timing, the HE, or Anti-Christ will do all of those wicked things in verse 27 (which should be verse 26)

This is the standard rap about these verses, filled with all sorts of presumptions that are completely unsupported by the text, which is poorly translated. Here is a better translation:

Daniel 9:26b-27 “Then after the 62 weeks, Messiah shall be cut off, but not for himself; and people of a leader/commander, the one coming in, he shall cause to destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end shall be with a flood of attackers, and unto an end of battle/warfare, desolations being decreed. And he shall cause to prevail/confirm (or, shall make strong) a covenant for the multitude one week; and in the midst/middle of the week, he shall cause to cease blood sacrifice and offering. And upon/over a wing/corner shall be abominations/idols of a destroyer, even until a (the) consummation/complete end so having been decreed shall be poured out upon a desolator.”

Some notable errors in your version: there is no "the" before "covenant"; there is no "the" before "desolate (desolator)." "The prince that shall come" should read, "a commander, the one coming in..." The Hebrew grammar shows that this same commander is the one who is spoken of in verse 27: there is no gap stated nor implied at all; rather, the Hiphil verbs show that this is all one continuous sequence.

Explained in the following detailed articles:

42. Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 4: Verse 26

A detailed translation and grammatical explanation of Daniel 9:26, followed by a summary of the three current primary views on its prophetic meaning. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1592-daniel-924-27-examined-part-4-verse-26/

43. Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 5: Verse 27

A very detailed translation and grammatical explanation of Daniel 9:27, which reveals various mistranslations found in different English versions of the Bible.   https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1598-daniel-924-27-examined-part-5-verse-27/

44. Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 46: Do Verses 26b-27 Prophesy Future Events?

Lists the seven specific prophecies found in Daniel 9:26b-27, and tests whether the belief that they will be fulfilled in the future can be substantiated by other biblical End Time prophecies. https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1605-daniel-924-27-part-6-do-verses-26b-27-prophecy-future-events/

[Revelation Man]

9 hours ago, WilliamL said:

1. "The pesha/transgression/apostasy" refers to the same one foretold earlier, in Gabriel's prophecy to Daniel in Chapter 8. This prophecy is merely a completion of that one, which was interpreted when Daniel fainted. 8:27 This apostasy within the priesthood came to an end during the time of Christ, when the Temple was destroyed: that ended it.

I understood the verses but I need to show it here soothers will also understand, you only mentioned vs. 27 via Daniel chapter 8, but you were referring unto Dan. 8:9-14 and the 2300 days if I am not mistaken, which of course is end times, not  Antiochus, even though Antiochus was the archetype, the Little Horn is the Anti-Christ/Beast of the end times. So to show this is, I think, what you meant, I'll include vs. 26 also.

 

Dan. 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days. 27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

So, verse 27 is preceded by vs. 26 and vs. 26 shows us this is about the Evening and Morning events, or the 2300 (DAYS) which really means 2300 Evening & Morning Oblations, thus its only 1150 days. 

Dan. 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: (Alexander the Great) and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.(East, West, North & South)

This is where we get the jump ahead, just like we get in Dan. 11:34-36. 

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn,(A.C./Beast) which waxed exceeding great(Conquers), toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. ((We know he conquers Israel, so the Waxes Great Towards can only mean he is conquering in that direction)). 

10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven(Jerusalem/Jews); and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them(Saints in general/Jewish leaders).

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host(Hight Priest/False Prophet), and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. 12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

So, verses 9-14 are about the End Time Anti-Christ, not Antiochus. 

When looking at this in my Hebrew Masoretic online bible we can see the word day is not day, its Evening AND Morning Oblation (or a twice daily rendering of a tribute unto God via a prayer or sacrifice, and that can mean a prayer is your sacrifice in  certain situations). 

Daniyel 8:8:14 And he said 559 z8799 unto x413 me, Unto x5704 two thousand 505 and three 7969 hundred 3967 days; 6153 1242 then shall the sanctuary 6944 be cleansed. 6663 z8738

Notice the TWO NUMBERS behind the word day? Well, my site has links to what these words mean.

#6153 עֶרֶב `ereb {eh'-reb}

 from H6150; TWOT - 1689a; n m
—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

 1) evening, night,

—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

From H6150; dusk:— + day, even (-ing, tide), night.

—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

 

#1242 בֹּקֶר boqer {bo'-ker} from H1239; TWOT - 274c; n m

—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) morning, break of day

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

From H1239; properly dawn (as the break of day); generally morning:— (+) day, early, morning, morrow.

—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

Now lets look at the same word in a later verse in the chapter in the KJV.

 Dan. 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

The EXACT SAME TWO NUMBESRS (Hebrew words) were used here by Daniel, yet here 9t is properly translated as the "Vision of the EVENING & Morning" but in verse 14 its called "DAYS" not the 2300 Evening and Morning Oblations as it should be. Lets look at Daniel in Dan. 9:21 where he is PRAYING at the Evening Oblation.

Dan. 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

The biggest problem I see with people is they do not proof check the translations, they just accept them as de facto correct, which is a bad idea tbh. So, Daniel was worshiping at the Evening Oblation. Thus there is no doubt also a Morning Oblation or tribute that is paid unto God every day. 

So, the 2300 days are really this Anti-Christ/False Prophet tag team taking away the worshiping of Jesus and the ability to pay tribute unto him twice daily in the temple of God in that instance, because you can't stop Prayer from peoples hearts, it has to be a visual halting of a tribute unto God.

So, the 2300 days is really 1150 Daily Oblations being taken away, not 2300 days. 

Gabriel explains the vision !!

Dan. 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation:(Gods Wrath and the 70th weeks end) for at the time appointed the end shall be(Clear as day, this is END TIMES).

20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his(Alexander the Great) power.

23 And in the latter time of their kingdom(Now Greece is still a kingdom), when the transgressors are come to the full(Now God's Wrath is almost filled up), a king of fierce countenance(Anti-Christ), and understanding dark sentences(Matt. 24:24 he has Dark Powers), shall stand up.

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power(Rev. 13:4): and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart(Demands to be worshipped as GOD), and by peace shall destroy many(Antiochus never destroyed by Peace, only by brute force): he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes(Jesus); but he shall be broken without hand.

In Dan. 2 the a Rock is cut out of the Mountain WITHOUT HANDS and then it crashes into the feet of the Statue which represents the 10 toes (E.U.) and Anti-Christ. Here we see this Anti-Christ is also killed WITHOUT HANDS because Jesus merely SPEAKS VICTORY, like he spoke Creation. Jesus will slay him by the presence of his coming. Amen. 

The whole vision ends in the END TIMES my friend, not with Antiochus' death nor with the renting of the temple. Just read and place everything in context, it is much easier to decipher when we use the full context given unto us by God which is always a mosaic we must weave together throughout the whole bible.

Any time the Little Horn is used in Dan. 8 or 9 that should set off alarm bells via this is END TIMES Prophecy !!

9 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Some notable errors in your version: there is no "the" before "covenant"; there is no "the" before "desolate (desolator)." "The prince that shall come" should read, "a commander, the one coming in..." The Hebrew grammar shows that this same commander is the one who is spoken of in verse 27: there is no gap stated nor implied at all; rather, the Hiphil verbs show that this is all one continuous sequence.

"The's" and such never change the meaning of verses, rarely, and I study all of these Hebrew, Greek,  Chaldean text in depth. What I did ABOVE proves this is END TIME PROPHECY so, because I understand the bible has to be interpreted in a mosaic type fashion, I can thus see things in this way whilst others try to rely to heavily on single verses or passages and can't seem t pull out the real meaning of the verses in many cases. 

I am correct in my analysis, this is the Anti-Christ, Dan. 8 and 9 is about the Little Horn end time Beast. 

God Bless.

[WilliamL]

On 1/13/2023 at 9:50 PM, Revelation Man said:

Dan. 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation:(Gods Wrath and the 70th weeks end) for at the time appointed the end shall be(Clear as day, this is END TIMES).

Out of the many presumptions in your post, I'll pick this one. This and all the others are explained in my blog series on Daniel 9:24-27, which includes a two-blog dissection of Daniel 8. From that is the following excerpt, which shows how so many people make a false presumption when they say that this verse must refer to the End Times of our day:

 

Daniel 8:17 …כִּי/because לְעֶת־/for a time of קֵץ/ an end [is] הֶחָזֹֽון/the vision/revelation.

“…because the vision is for a time of an end.”

– not “the time of the end,” as this is generally mistranslated. (There is no ה/“the” before קץ.) That interpretation has imposed within it the presumption that there is only one time when there will be an end. But other prophetic, already-fulfilled times, ends, and time-of-end passages can be seen in Ezekiel 7:2-12 and 21:25, 29 (the latter verses generally mistranslated).

Daniel 8:19 …אֲשֶׁר־/what יִהְיֶה/shall happen בְּאַחֲרִית/in the latter (part/time) of הַזָּעַם/the fury/rage, כִּי/because [it is] לְמֹועֵד/for an appointed time קֵֽץ/of an end.

“…what shall happen in the latter part of the fury, because it is for an appointed time of an end.”

Again, the Hebrew does not say, as this is generally mistranslated, “at the appointed time (shall be) the end.” Like with verse 17, nothing of this event relates to our day either. To give a similar example, Daniel 11:29 prophesies “at the appointed time he [Antiochus] shall return and go toward the south,” but that “appointed time” prophecy was fulfilled in 168 B.C.

Daniel 8:23 וּֽבְאַחֲרִית/And in the latter (part/time) מַלְכוּתָם/of malkutham/their kingdom, כְּהָתֵם/while bringing to fullness [Hiphil Infin. with prefixכ: “while, when”] הַפֹּשְׁעִים/the transgressing/rebelling ones [Qal Active Participle, plural], מֶלֶךְ/a king יַעֲמֹד/shall arise…

“And in the latter part of their kingdom, while the rebelling ones/transgressors are bringing to fullness their apostasy, a king shall arise…”

These three verses, 8:17, 19, 23, are where translators and commentators often go astray, imposing words and understanding not expressed in the Hebrew. In these and similar Hebrew prophetic texts, a common default presumption of translators has been that every “time of an end,” “Day of the LORD,” and “latter day/time” must refer to the end of OUR age. This is not true at all: there have been many “ends” of kingdoms and eras prophesied that have already come to pass. For example:

Jeremiah 46:2 Against Egypt. Concerning the army of Pharaoh Necho, King of Egypt, which was by the River Euphrates in Carchemish, which Nebuchadrezzar King of Babylon smote in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah. … 10 For this is the Day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance…

This historically-famous “Day of the LORD” battle took place in 610 B.C. Other fulfilled Day of the LORD prophecies include Joel 1:15 (but not Joel 2-3), and Ezekiel 7:19 and 13:5. The final “end”/Day of the LORD/last of the last days does not come until the end of the 7th Millennium, “when He [Christ] delivers the kingdom to God the Father…[having] put an end to all rule and all authority and power.” 1 Cor. 15:24

Daniel 8:23 defines the very era of the 2300-day abasement of Jerusalemʼs Temple: “in the latter part/time of their [the Greek] kingdom.” By 168 B.C., only the significantly-diminished Seleucid and Ptolemaic kingdoms remained out of Alexanderʼs once vast empire. Therefore, the “fierce king” and ha-poshim/“the rebelling ones” of verse 23 can only be Antiochus Epiphanes and the Jewish apostates, respectively. All of the verses from 8:23-28 prophesy about the qualities and acts of Antiochus: they do not prophesy about OUR times.

Was Antiochus Epiphanes a type and foreshadower of the coming King of the North of the yet-unfulfilled prophecy of Daniel 11:40-45? Yes. (See Antiochus Epiphanes and the End Times, Part 3.) Can the attributes and acts of Antiochus described in Daniel 8, and/or the period of 2300 days, be expected to apply to the coming King of the North? No. Beware of any such presumptions. Daniel 11:29 specifically prophesies that one “appointed time” fulfilled by Antiochus “shall not be like the latter” event fulfilled by Daniel 11:40ʼs King of the North. Certainly there will be other significant differences between the attributes and acts of these two rulers.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1576-part-2-conclusion/