Evolution's Achilles Heel ~ ~ Book, 9 Ph.D Scientists and Doctors ~ ~ Discussion

[Retrobyter]

40 minutes ago, teddyv said:

How do you know when he said it? Genesis does not internally date itself. Any chronology, such as Ussher's, is tied to secular dates, not from the Bible itself. So the Bible itself makes no claim as to the when.

Shalom, teddyv.

I wasn't talking about the date of Genesis; I was talking about when GOD SAID He created. He said He created it all in SIX DAYS that were equated to the SIX DAYS in which a man could work. He was then to REST on the 7th day - the Shabbat - as God rested on the 7th day, when He blessed the 7th Day and made it holy! Indeed, the word "Shabbat" ("Sabbath") means "to cease; to desist; to REST."

[teddyv]

6 minutes ago, FJK said:

Have you ever heard of the language of branches?

This is how Moses wrote in Genesis -Bereshith- and it is well to understand that when studying it if an actual understanding of it is to be obtained (assuming understanding, and not contention, is your desire).

Ask a Jew for further knowledge of this.

I have not heard that phrase before. A quick look seems to link it to Kabbalah, which is considered a false doctrine, but I have not looked that deeply. If it is nothing more than pseudo-gnostic teachings, then I don't see much of a point.

Anyway, I am not sure how this relates to the hard dating of Creation to 4004 BC, which is what I was relating to.

[teddyv]

5 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, teddyv.

I wasn't talking about the date of Genesis; I was talking about when GOD SAID He created. He said He created it all in SIX DAYS that were equated to the SIX DAYS in which a man could work. He was then to REST on the 7th day - the Shabbat - as God rested on the 7th day, when He blessed the 7th Day and made it holy! Indeed, the word "Shabbat" ("Sabbath") means "to cease; to desist; to REST."

OK. Fair enough. 

[FJK]

4 minutes ago, teddyv said:

Anyway, I am not sure how this relates to the hard dating of Creation to 4004 BC, which is what I was relating to.

It doesn't, but realizing what it is makes hard dating something that has no actual meaning in the greater picture .

Essentially, everything written in Moses writings is an earthly symbol (for lack of a better word) of something above (in heaven).  It represents things on earth as the observable aspect of unseen things in heaven (objects,events, and their effects).

Something that science tries to find through quantum dimensions and such that express esoteric concepts through mathematics.  (not the best example to use but an adequate one to point in the right direction)

That's my simple understanding.

A Jew who has studied such things could probably give a better explanation, I'm very short of the knowledge needed to be able to explain it in detailed words.

[teddyv]

19 minutes ago, FJK said:

Essentially, everything written in Moses writings is an earthly symbol (for lack of a better word) of something above (in heaven).  It represents things on earth as the observable aspect of unseen things in heaven (objects,events, and their effects).

Well, I don't think I've ever seen this really promoted, even on YEC sites, as an interpretative lens on Genesis 1-11. Can you offer a specific example?

[FJK]

1 hour ago, teddyv said:

Well, I don't think I've ever seen this really promoted, even on YEC sites, as an interpretative lens on Genesis 1-11. Can you offer a specific example?

The days of creation are not actually the days of creation the way people understand them but the days of formation of things on earth that were already created in heaven.  Everything was already created including reality itself (Genesis 1:1) but formless in the physical realm till they were formed in it, bringing them into existence by bringing them from the spiritual realm (the Heaven) into the physical realm (the Earth).  They exist in both places and wouldn't exist at all if they didn't.

Take note that the six days talk about formation (Genesis 1:2), not creation which was done in the beginning, which is putting the physical world in order as was planned when it was created.

[WilliamL]

On 10/30/2023 at 3:35 PM, The Barbarian said:

Mammals could only have evolved from  amniotes, vertebrates, chordates, animalia, eukaryotes. 

See, you're starting from the presumption/faith in evolution. 

Whereas I'm starting from the faith in God creating kinds, from which various possibilities for adaptations were built into each kind. But one kind never can change into another kind. 

So you can speak all the educated-elite jargon you like, but all you do is just witness that you deny fiat creation.

[RV_Wizard]

On 10/29/2023 at 10:54 AM, The Barbarian said:

In fact, the Bible says nothing about the age of the Earth at all.   Which means we can't cite it to support YE or OE.

The Bible states that the heavens and the earth were created in six days.  It also gives the genealogies of the Bible from Adam to Jesus.  From that we can get a pretty good idea how old the earth is.  It doesn't add up to ten thousand years, let along billions. 

On 10/29/2023 at 10:54 AM, The Barbarian said:

Everyone notices that the verses don't support your additions.

I post entire passages.  There are no additions.  I simply include your subtractions.  I wasn't around when the Bible was compiled, so how could I add anything?

On 10/29/2023 at 10:54 AM, The Barbarian said:

The important thing is that Jesus never said the Earth is only a few thousand years old, nor do any of the verses He cited say so.

I never said it did.  I said the Bible says the earth was created, which it was.  There was a global flood, which Jesus referenced.  Jesus affirmed the accuracy of the Scriptures.  Sine He was an eyewitness and you were not, I believe Him that the Bible is the inspired word of God.  Noah descended from Adam.  David descended from Noah.  Mary descended from David. 

[RV_Wizard]

On 10/30/2023 at 6:03 PM, The Barbarian said:

There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved.

So not only do you not believe Moses, you don't believe Darwin either.

On 10/30/2023 at 6:03 PM, The Barbarian said:

It wasn't until we discovered the nature of DNA that it became clear that there was only one common ancestor for all living things today.

Clear to whom?  I am under no delusion that I share ancestry with a daffodil, despite sharing 25% similarities in DNA.  

On 10/30/2023 at 6:03 PM, The Barbarian said:

 This illustrates the problem we see with so many creationists; they hate evolution, but they haven't any idea what it actually is.

I just hate lies.  I have no respect for false religions.  I don't honor false prophets.  I refuse to sit idly while people twist and distort the word of God to promote a religion based on ignorance and naturalism.   Evolution is based on ignorance of our origins.  It relies on extremely rare abnormalities in biology to be the driving force in all biodiversity despite having no provable mechanism for increased complexity.  

Let's face it.  A six year old knows the definition of a day, and yet you fabricate some notion that six days was never intended to mean six days.  Evolution has one intent; to explain the origination of life without giving any deference to the Creator.  It's a Satanic religion responsible for destroying the faith of many and leading them away from God.  It has its root in the foolish notion that the natural laws of this word are absolute; other than when violations are necessary to get around the fact that matter/energy simply cannot be created or destroyed, only changed in form.  News flash: 84% of Americans believe in miracles and 48% say they have experienced one.  For naturalism to be right, very single one of them must be lying or delusional.

On 10/30/2023 at 6:03 PM, The Barbarian said:

I just took a look at a few state standards for science.   You're wrong.

I said "about." 

All life on earth is related. The way children wiggle, breathe, cuddle and grab objects can help them to realize their ancient link with fish, reptiles, mammals and apes.

This is the message of Grandmother Fish, a new book for 3- to 7-year-olds written by Jonathan Tweet and illustrated by Karen Lewis. Funded by a Kickstarter campaign and offered free in PDF form online, the book has won praise as a child's first book of evolution.  source

On 10/30/2023 at 6:03 PM, The Barbarian said:

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It turns out that even if the Earth had not brought forth life as God tells us,

Again with this nonsense???  Don't you ever get tired of misrepresenting the Bible by posting words out of context?  How many times do I have to show your claim to be blatantly false?

On 10/30/2023 at 6:03 PM, The Barbarian said:

Abiogenesis, as you see, has nothing to do with evolutionary theory.

NO!!  You don't get it both ways.  You can't deny God's entire creation and then offer Him a bit part because you can't pass off the lie of abiogenesis as easily as the lie of increasing complexity.  It's either "In the beginning, God," or it's "In the beginning, nothing became something and then something came to life."  The origination of anything cannot be explained within the boundaries of science.  You CAN'T start with a miracle and then deny miracles.  It is the very epitome of dishonesty.

On 10/30/2023 at 6:03 PM, The Barbarian said:

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No.   As you just learned, for example, Darwin though it might have come about by the creation of any number of individual organisms by God.

What God?  If God lied about His creation then there is no God, because God cannot lie.  You can't ignore the God of creation and then make up your own little god to kick start things for you.  There is one God.  He created the Heavens and the earth.  He gave man free will and Adam blew it.  He used Noah to preserve the human race and then destroyed the most evil of it.  Then He sent His only begotten son to die for... what, exactly?  If man is only an evolved primate then there is no sin, no need for a Savior, no crucifixion and no resurrection.  NONE of the Bible makes sense if you deny the foundation.  It is self contained package; you either believe it or you do not.  Either God is as He says He is or there is no God.  There is no provision for a lying god who makes up things to make himself look good.  God created everything or nothing.  The Bible is all truth or all lies.  

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You, for example imagine that it's about "molecules to man."   Completely wrong.  

Molecules to man is the beginning.  If your story has no beginning then you have no story.

 

[RV_Wizard]

On 10/31/2023 at 10:39 AM, The Barbarian said:

As you saw earlier, the "days" of creation are not literal days.   The text itself makes that clear.  

Clear to whom?

Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1-11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience; . . . Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know.  James Barr, Professor of Hebrew Bible at Vanderbilt University and former Regius Professor of Hebrew at Oxford University in England.

On 10/31/2023 at 10:39 AM, The Barbarian said:

That's your addition to His word, not what God says.

Really?  In my Bible it reads in Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Soooo, either you have a defective Bible or you're not telling the truth.  Please stop misrepresenting the Bible.  It's okay if you don't believe it.  It's just foolish to argue the verbiage when ANYONE can see you're wrong.

On 10/31/2023 at 10:39 AM, The Barbarian said:

God often steps in and miraculously intervenes.

Which God?  The God of creation, or the one you make up when you have no other explanation?  And what is this talk of miracles?  Miracles are, by definition, contrary to natural laws.  You believe natural law controls the universe.  I believe that it's God's law that controls the universe.