God's Divine Protection Of The Church During The Tribulation

[Sister]

21 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I, too, have always assumed both Enoch and Elijah did not taste physical death. Enoch, for sure, was translated, and God took Enoch (perhaps symbolic of removal from judgment). I do not recognize these exact circumstances in Elijah; Elijah was transported somewhere, much like Phillip, and the distance and direction of Phillip's movement are given. Not so for Elijah; he was transported up through the first heaven to somewhere.

Hi Dennis1209

  2 Kings 2:1   And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

21 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Good morning, Sister,

Your view is the view I have held. Since I wrote this, I have read a few other commentaries. The gist of these commentaries is a better word, revived (quickened-made alive again) instead of resurrected. I am not sure if that is comparing apples with oranges or not.

I, too, have always assumed both Enoch and Elijah did not taste physical death. Enoch, for sure, was translated, and God took Enoch (perhaps symbolic of removal from judgment). I do not recognize these exact circumstances in Elijah; Elijah was transported somewhere, much like Phillip, and the distance and direction of Phillip's movement are given. Not so for Elijah; he was transported up through the first heaven to somewhere.

Based on a letter he wrote to a king, there is some biblical circumstantial evidence Elijah was alive on earth well after his transport. Based on the chronology of the kings of Israel. My notes on this are too long, so they are omitted.

Two other possibilities exist: Elijah prewrote that letter, or the king's chronology is misunderstood.

At any rate, it is beneficial to compare scripture with scripture in trying to get a better understanding of the bigger picture, such as:

·         What does it entail to be a witness, and of what?

·         At Jesus's transfiguration, why were Moses & Elijah there? Why not Enoch & Elijah? What was the subject of the conversation? Probably His impending death, burial, and resurrection.

·         Who were the two men at Jesus's tomb and witnessing His ascent to heaven?

·         The church age Gospel of Salvation, compared to the Gospel of the Kingdom after the church's removal.

·         Comparing the miracles Moses and Elijah did in their ministries with the Tribulation judgments.

After the harpazo of the church, the attention shifts to the Revelation of Jesus Christ, and the nation of Israel. What Gospel is preached by the Two Witnesses, the 144,000, and the flying angel?

 

I havn't forgotten you.  I have to go back and find scriptures.  Will get back to you.

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Sister

[Dennis1209]

6 minutes ago, Sister said:

Hi Dennis1209

  2 Kings 2:1   And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

 

I havn't forgotten you.  I have to go back and find scriptures.  Will get back to you.

 

Good morning,

FYI, I am by no means adamant with these views I suggested. I only intended to point out other possibilities and interpretations to explore.

[Dennis1209]

On 2/4/2023 at 6:59 PM, Sister said:

Don't forget we are given the number of the sealed.  There are only 144,000.  No more, and no less.  These make up the true church.  Those who have followed the Lamb wheresoever he goes.

As a pretribulationalist, I propose the church (as Enoch) is removed from impending global judgment for all the reasons we hold to the “blessed hope.” To be found worthy to escape all these things.

The 144,000 are twelve thousand from each of the tribes of Israel. Today we refer to them as Messianic Jews, IMO. Again, only my thought process and interpretation of the biblical narrative.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

I am responding without reading the previous replies. 

 

 

The 2 witnesses are usually believed to be Moses & Elijah. The powers in Revelation specifically copy those of Moses & Elijah. The church will not be supernaturally protected during the tribulation. Only the 2 witnesses and the chosen 144,000 ( Jewish Evangelists ) will be supernaturally protected. The Antichrist will massacre millions of Christians. 

[Montana Marv]

Better question is. God's Devine protection of the Church over the past 2000 years. Why a change. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

[abcdef]

6 hours ago, Sister said:

No.  The 144k are only the Firstfruits, of the resurrection. 

There is another large multitude aside from them in that first resurrection.

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

[tatwo]

On 2/2/2023 at 8:13 PM, truth7t7 said:

How many 1st born of the Israelites were killed that entered their dwellings at the passover of death in Egypt?

Any that did not obey.

Tatwo...:)

[truth7t7]

8 hours ago, Sister said:

Christians there are many but the 144,000 are the true church who followed the Lamb wheresoever he goes.  The rest will be added to that church when true doctrine is given.

Sounds like Jehovahs Witness doctrine, with the chosen 144,000 

My Holy Bible teaches all saved believers are equal in their salvation and standing with God

Galatians 3:26-28KJV

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Edited February 6, 2023 by truth7t7

[tatwo]

God's Divine Protection Of The Church During The Tribulation

Well…I just read this whole forum. 75% or there about…is just confusion and division…the other 25% was made up of some actual teaching and some constructive writing.

I thought George did an nice job working with truth7t7...dennis did a nice job as well.

I did resonate with Montana Marv’s post…it is a relevant question all too easily overlooked.

“Better question is. God's Devine protection of the Church over the past 2000 years. Why a change.” 

It would seem that some define “church” differently than others…inherently that would disrupt the process of explaining its “divine protection”

Additionally…since this is noted as “during the tribulation”…why are the same ol’tribbers showing up for this and bringing that pre/mid trib…rapture into this…is it because you just like to argue and fight?

You have continually scattered your off subject arguments all throughout these “prophetic” forums…we all know what you think…we cannot really get away from it…it has become troublesome to the point that I am not often interested in stopping by…though some of the forum titles are interesting.

I am all good with you having faith in your rapture belief…however to continually be buffeted by the same attitude and argument in multiple forums…it’s just a dead work…you don’t see it.

Do you really think the Body of Christ…the family of God is behaving this way? Do you think this behavior even remotely reflects the very important concept of “Love each other as I have loved you?” Anyways…

Back to the forum subject…if the “church” which I will refer to as the “Body of Christ”…is just that…”Christ’s body”…why would it need any other protection than what He had???

 

Did we forget that since all his “children” have flesh and blood, Yahshua became human to fully identify with us? He did this, so that He could experience death and annihilate the effects of the intimidating accuser who holds the power of death against us.  By embracing death…Yahshua…had freed those who live their entire lives in bondage to the tormenting dread of death.

 

Those who “fear death” are the only ones who require protection…maybe the “church” requires “divine protection” however…Christ “Head and Body” never did never will…all judgment is given to the Son.

Creation belongs to Christ...it exists within Him...He is the creator and the judge...hello???

Tatwo...:)

[Sister]

On 2/5/2023 at 11:48 PM, Dennis1209 said:

At Jesus's transfiguration, why were Moses & Elijah there? Why not Enoch & Elijah? What was the subject of the conversation? Probably His impending death, burial, and resurrection.

Hi Dennis1209

I am not 100% sure of the meaning of Moses and Elijah appearing in that vision, but there must be another reason and some things stand out.  Firstly Moses was of the tribe of Levi, and Elijah of the tribe of Ephraim which I only just noticed.  Something to think on there.....Who does Ephraim symbolise, or does it have nothing to do with it?  Just thoughts.

 

  Luke 9:30   And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

  Luke 9:31   Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

So in this vision Moses and Elijah spoke to Jesus of his death which would soon happen at Jerusalem.    Was the vision a replay of what was already prophesied in the OT?  ...

so 8 days before the vision, Jesus stated this to his apostles;

  Luke 9:27   But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
 

And then you have Peter, John and James 8 days later who got a glimpse of the kingdom in the form of that apparition. I think they witnessed the holy spirit in all three glorified, and we know the holy spirit is the spirit of truth, of which the kingdom of God consists of.  So Jesus words were fulfilled here.

I don't think this has anything to do with the two witnesses who will come in the end times, plus Moses is already dead, so that rules him out.