Bible_Gazer Posted February 10, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 450 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 152 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/05/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10, 2023 I seem to have read that some believe that everything after the 5th chapter is all future. They use the 5th chapter when all who made it into heaven. It also mention about a gathering in Rev.7 and Rev.21,22 . So is every chapters after the 5th chapter really all all future ? Nothing pertaining to the past or present day ? Is everything in consecutive order or does it jump around from different events of things going to happen as being told to John. Some think if i remember correctly that there is no church after the 5th chapter ? but yet people will still get saved . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted February 10, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,072 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 553 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, Bible_Gazer said: I seem to have read that some believe that everything after the 5th chapter is all future. They use the 5th chapter when all who made it into heaven. It also mention about a gathering in Rev.7 and Rev.21,22 . So is every chapters after the 5th chapter really all all future ? Nothing pertaining to the past or present day ? Is everything in consecutive order or does it jump around from different events of things going to happen as being told to John. Some think if i remember correctly that there is no church after the 5th chapter ? but yet people will still get saved . Everything after Rev. 4:1 is the "HEREAFTER" or after the Church Age as seen in Rev. 2 & 3 which was the "Things which Are". We see this timeline laid out in Rev. 1:19 19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; So, Jesus tells John write the things which you have seen (Jesus in all of his glory in Rev. 1). The Church Age in Revelation chapters 2 and 3 are the things which are. Then finally the things which will be hereafter as seen in Rev. 4-19. So, is everything mentioned in Rev. 4-19 about the HEREAFTER ? (after the 70th week begins) Well, yes and no, there are points being referenced about things past, but only to show a FUTURE EVENT. In other words were are told about "The Woman" (Israel) in Rev. 12 and the male child (Jesus) and how Satan tried to stop the birth etc. But all that is just a code to tell us about THE PLAYERS in the STORY in Rev. 12, thus we can understand the Woman is Israel, and Satan the Dragon will try to kill her off via the Anti-Christs Army (flood) for the last 1260 days, so the Prophetic Event is about the final 1260 days and Israel fleeing Judea unto the Petra/Bozrah area. All of the events past Rev. 4:1 happen DURING the 70th week up until Rev. 20, and all that happens, of course, after the 70th week. Sorry if I preempted a point before hand. Edited February 11, 2023 by Revelation Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 10, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10, 2023 7 hours ago, Bible_Gazer said: I seem to have read that some believe that everything after the 5th chapter is all future. They use the 5th chapter when all who made it into heaven. It also mention about a gathering in Rev.7 and Rev.21,22 . So is every chapters after the 5th chapter really all all future ? Nothing pertaining to the past or present day ? Is everything in consecutive order or does it jump around from different events of things going to happen as being told to John. Some think if i remember correctly that there is no church after the 5th chapter ? but yet people will still get saved . After many years of bible study in Revelation, I believe the church has been waiting a long time at the 5th seal - for the martyrs of the church age. Therefore, things written before that are history or present, and things after that are future—but there are exceptions. For example, Satan the dragon cast out of heaven taking one third of the angels with him, from chapter 12. Also the first five verses of chapter 12, about Jesus' birth and when the king tried to murder him as a small child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted February 10, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,119 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted February 10, 2023 8 hours ago, Bible_Gazer said: I seem to have read that some believe that everything after the 5th chapter is all future. Everything from 4:1 onward tells of future events. 8 hours ago, Bible_Gazer said: Is everything in consecutive order or does it jump around from different events of things going to happen as being told to John. The seals, trumpets, and bowls accounts are in order, but other sections skip about, in order to describe some of the things that will go on during these times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,072 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 553 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) On 2/10/2023 at 8:20 AM, Bible_Gazer said: Is everything in consecutive order or does it jump around from different events of things going to happen as being told to John. This needed to be answered in a separate post. Rev. 1 is Jesus in his glory and he is eternal. Rev. 2 & 3 is the Church age we are now in. Rev. 4, 5 is Jesus opening the Seals (Prophesying about the coming Judgment Trumps) amongst the Pre Trib Raptured Church who are now in Heaven. Rev. 6 is Jesus opening those seals, but that happens before any Judgment comes. Rev. 7 is the Jews fleeing Judea at the 1290, the 144,000 is a CODE for All Israel who repent, like the Woman in Rev. 12 is also a CODE for All Israel who repent. Rev. 8 is an Asteroid Impact is the first four Trumps, the 4th Trump is Seal #6 coming to pass Rev. 9 is the First two woes, which are Trumps 5 and 6. SKIP to Rev. 16..........well, 15&16 go together really Rev. 15&16, we see the Vials readied to be poured out in Rev. 15 then poured out in Rev. 16, this ends the Age of man as Rev. 16:19 says, Babylon the Great is judged (The WHOLE WORLD under Satan). Why is Rev. 15 and 16 really one chapter IMHO? Because in Rev. 8 we see the Trumps are readied by the Angels then blown in the same chapter. So, Rev. 15 and 16 goes together if we are being consistent. The rest of the chapters are Parenthetical Citation Chapters that happen during chapters 8, 9 and 16. Rev. 10 is merely prose about the 7 Trumpet Judgments, called the 7 Thunders, so it starts in Rev. 8. Rev. 11 is all about the Two-witnesses Ministry, so it starts 75 days before the 1260 at the 1335, and they die during the 2nd Woe or 75 days before the Beast dies, thus both have 1260 day Ordained by God Offices. Rev. 12, 13, 17 and 18 all start with the Rev. 8 Asteroid Impact and end via Jesus' return at the 7th Vial. Rev. 14 and 19 both cover the full 7 Years, Rev. 19 sees the Bride in Heaven as soon as we get there, before the Marriage unto the Lamb, then we return with Jesus 7 years later as Matt. 24:29-31 shows us and as Rev. 19:16-18 says. Rev. 14 is the Three Harvest Chapter. We see the Jews (144,000) are Harvested into the Fathers barn, they are the Wheat and Wheat has to be crushed before it can be sifted. Then in verses 17-20 we see the Wicked are placed in Winepress of God's Wrath. Then in Rev. 14:14 we get a FLASHBACK to the Pre trib Rapture. Rev. 20, 21 and 22 are after the 70th week ends, of course. Edited February 12, 2023 by Revelation Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,471 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,379 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Online Share Posted February 11, 2023 22 hours ago, Bible_Gazer said: I seem to have read that some believe that everything after the 5th chapter is all future. They use the 5th chapter when all who made it into heaven. It also mention about a gathering in Rev.7 and Rev.21,22 . So is every chapters after the 5th chapter really all all future ? Nothing pertaining to the past or present day ? Is everything in consecutive order or does it jump around from different events of things going to happen as being told to John. Some think if i remember correctly that there is no church after the 5th chapter ? but yet people will still get saved . I will do my best to stick precisely to your questions, trying not to wander off. There are more opinions and exegesis on the book of Revelation than any other book in the Bible, and I do not claim to have the correct view, nor am I dogmatic with my thoughts. I agree with Revelation Man about chapters 1-3. The church is mentioned 19 times in those three chapters, then suddenly, beginning in Chapter four, the church is not mentioned again until the book's end. Chapter four starts the future in John's Day; something happened and changed. John is in heaven, and there is the sudden appearance of the 24 Elders, which is not part of the inquiry. Parenthetical chapters are inserted into Revelation, giving additional past and yet-to-come information. If those chapters are removed, I believe the book is written chronologically. If you want to know about those chapters, let me know. At the harpazo, the church age (age of Grace) ends. Meaning those not Raptured will enter the seven-year Tribulation period. The Restrainer who restrains evil will be removed (do Christians have the Holy Spirit indwelling them. Is the church, through the Holy Spirit, restraining evil today). Yes, the Holy Spirit will still be active in the Tribulation, convicting many. Probably more souls will be saved during this period than at any other time throughout history. However, they missed the Grace offered by God to be kept from the Day of the Lord. Those saved during the Tribulation must remain faithful until the end and most likely will be martyred for their faith. Revelation chapter seven would take some detailed explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bible_Gazer Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 450 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 152 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/05/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 18 hours ago, WilliamL said: Everything from 4:1 onward tells of future events. The seals, trumpets, and bowls accounts are in order, but other sections skip about, in order to describe some of the things that will go on during these times. Do they go together side by side ? First the trumpet message then the vial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bible_Gazer Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 450 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 152 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/05/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 3 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: I will do my best to stick precisely to your questions, trying not to wander off. There are more opinions and exegesis on the book of Revelation than any other book in the Bible, and I do not claim to have the correct view, nor am I dogmatic with my thoughts. I agree with Revelation Man about chapters 1-3. The church is mentioned 19 times in those three chapters, then suddenly, beginning in Chapter four, the church is not mentioned again until the book's end. Chapter four starts the future in John's Day; something happened and changed. John is in heaven, and there is the sudden appearance of the 24 Elders, which is not part of the inquiry. Parenthetical chapters are inserted into Revelation, giving additional past and yet-to-come information. If those chapters are removed, I believe the book is written chronologically. If you want to know about those chapters, let me know. At the harpazo, the church age (age of Grace) ends. Meaning those not Raptured will enter the seven-year Tribulation period. The Restrainer who restrains evil will be removed (do Christians have the Holy Spirit indwelling them. Is the church, through the Holy Spirit, restraining evil today). Yes, the Holy Spirit will still be active in the Tribulation, convicting many. Probably more souls will be saved during this period than at any other time throughout history. However, they missed the Grace offered by God to be kept from the Day of the Lord. Those saved during the Tribulation must remain faithful until the end and most likely will be martyred for their faith. Revelation chapter seven would take some detailed explanation. If i get this right - there is still the salvation plan offered to people after the catching away saints. Of course they would be saved in the name of Jesus. Who would they hear it from ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,471 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,379 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Online Share Posted February 11, 2023 5 hours ago, Bible_Gazer said: If i get this right - there is still the salvation plan offered to people after the catching away saints. Of course they would be saved in the name of Jesus. Who would they hear it from ? If I understand correctly, a great harvest will occur during the Tribulation. The Two Witnesses will preach the Kingdom of God to Israel for the first 3-1/2 years. Twelve thousand from each tribe of Israel (144,000) will preach the Kingdom of God globally. In addition, a flying angel will also be preaching the kingdom globally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bible_Gazer Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 450 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 152 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/05/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said: If I understand correctly, a great harvest will occur during the Tribulation. The Two Witnesses will preach the Kingdom of God to Israel for the first 3-1/2 years. Twelve thousand from each tribe of Israel (144,000) will preach the Kingdom of God globally. In addition, a flying angel will also be preaching the kingdom globally. So then there is a church during that time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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