What if one Morning we all Woke Up & no more Divisions?

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, Heleadethme said:

Except, here's a bit of a monkey wrench....what do we do when at whichever point the Lord is separating wheat from tares?  That would appear not to be so unifying!  I have wondered whether it is significant where it says the tares will be "bundled"....could that be alluding to denominations or churches that don't really see the Body of Christ as being just one church in spirit?

In brief, looking at this from nature and a farmer’s perspective, I think this refers to the harvest (church). As both grow, they look much alike congregated together, and pulling (uprooting) the tares will hinder and damage the desired wheat (harvest).

It is better for the wheat (harvest) to remain and mature with the tares until harvest time, then culling, bundling, and burning the tares.

In churches, are there not both wheat and tares? The saved (grain), and the unsaved (tares), if one is not saved, they are at enmity with God. Those that are maturing alongside those not producing fruit, hindering and choking production. Only at the harvest are they separated, one kept, and one burned.

[kwikphilly]

16 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Here's some fanciful thinking: What if one morning we all woke up and suddenly and fully realized that we were all truly one body in Christ and share the same Spirit, Lord and faith?  And that the love we felt for one another far surpassed our varied differences of opinion and we were just drawn to each other for pure fellowship?  And we held the core essentials of the faith and the testimony of Jesus closely among us, but all the other things we held more loosely for the sake of oneness.  And  we were compelled by the Spirit to give up our individual preferences regarding to how meet together and worship and do "church," and were just draw to be together with others who have Christ in them?

Do you think this would be greatly blessed by the Lord?

(I suspect that something like this may happen soon, if there are first tremendously cataclysmic things which occur.  That is, when the "heat" gets turned up is often when the Spirit is able to among us more freely.)

Blessings VA

I think if I woke up and there were no more Divisions I'd have been woken up by  Christ Raising me up from the deadPraise Jesus!

With love in Christ, Kwik

[chesed]

18 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Here's some fanciful thinking: What if one morning we all woke up and suddenly and fully realized that we were all truly one body in Christ and share the same Spirit, Lord and faith? 

If we woke up that would imply we were asleep and surely some would nag us for not staying alert and being watchful. 
 

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

1 Corinthians 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Edited February 13, 2023 by chesed

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

Good point - and there is more.

19 For there MUST be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. (1st Cor.11:19)

The word "heresies" does not mean false doctrine. It means "taking a side" or "forming a (political) party. Perhaps the best example is Barnabas. He is well reputed among the saints and the Bible never speaks ill of him. He seems to have stood for unity and forgiveness in the matter of Mark's weakness (Act.15:36-41). But after this we never her of him again. Strange ... Could it be that prominent brothers and sisters, who have done no wrong, are just NOT CHOSEN by the Lord? It certainly seems so from the case of Barnabas.

Barnabas was prominent before Paul was. He had reasonable expectation that the Lord would back his cause. But it ends with Paul being prominent and Barnabas disappearing altogether.

Agree with the definition of heresies that you are bringing out.  But see if you get a sense from this passage that Paul might have been exercising a bit of what I call old fashioned Jewish sarcasm there, to make a point:

1Co 11:17-19

Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.

For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

I get a sense that cliques/sects were forming when they gathered together as a church, and like all cliques they would have had ringleaders ("they which are approved" only by their followers or clique members, heh).  We shouldn't divide and form cliques or sects over either petty disagreements or due to being 'respecters of persons'. ( Like where Paul corrected those who were dividing over leaders..."One says I follow Paul, or I follow Apollos, etc.)

 

[Vine Abider]

10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi VA,

What do you see as the `core essentials of the faith and the testimony of Jesus? `

Marilyn.

Well thanks for that question, Marilyn, and a good question indeed!

I've hit the topic of what is core essentials of the faith a number of times with others (including on this and other forums).  Let see how simple we can make this:

1. God was manifested in the flesh in Jesus Christ 

2. Christ lived as a man, was crucified, resurrected, ascended to heaven and will return

3. His blood atoned for the sins of all mankind

4. Salvation is through faith in Christ alone & we must personally accept Him and his salvation to be saved

We may think other things could or should be added, and I may even think of something additional later . . . but really, much beyond these essentials, what more do we need to have oneness and free-flowing fellowship with each other?

[chesed]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

3. His blood atoned for the sins of all mankind

Even this would make some cringe.

How about ‘sufficient for all mankind’? (i.e. efficient for those who believe, yet sufficient for all). Otherwise all mankind would be saved.

Then there’s the Virgin birth…without which we would have a Savior tainted with sin.

oh heck, why not just the Nicene Creed?

 

We believe in one God,
      the Father almighty,
      maker of heaven and earth,
      of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
      the only Son of God,
      begotten from the Father before all ages,
           God from God,
           Light from Light,
           true God from true God,
      begotten, not made;
      of the same essence as the Father.
      Through him all things were made.
      For us and for our salvation
           he came down from heaven;
           he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
           and was made human.
           He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
           he suffered and was buried.
           The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
           He ascended to heaven
           and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
           He will come again with glory
           to judge the living and the dead.
           His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
      the Lord, the giver of life.
      He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
      and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
      He spoke through the prophets.
      We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
      We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
      We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
      and to life in the world to come. Amen.

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by chesed

[Vine Abider]

29 minutes ago, chesed said:

Even this would make some cringe.

How about ‘sufficient for all mankind’? (i.e. efficient for those who believe, yet sufficient for all). Otherwise all mankind would be saved.

Then there’s the Virgin birth…without which we would have a Savior tainted with sin.

oh heck, why not just the Nicene Creed?

 

We believe in one God,
      the Father almighty,
      maker of heaven and earth,
      of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
      the only Son of God,
      begotten from the Father before all ages,
           God from God,
           Light from Light,
           true God from true God,
      begotten, not made;
      of the same essence as the Father.
      Through him all things were made.
      For us and for our salvation
           he came down from heaven;
           he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
           and was made human.
           He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
           he suffered and was buried.
           The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
           He ascended to heaven
           and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
           He will come again with glory
           to judge the living and the dead.
           His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
      the Lord, the giver of life.
      He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
      and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
      He spoke through the prophets.
      We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
      We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
      We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
      and to life in the world to come. Amen.

 

His shed blood being "sufficient for all mankind" works fine for me!  But is belief in the virgin birth essential for fellowship?

And you propose that before we good fellowship we all should subscribe to the Nicene Creed?  Is that simple enough or would that set up too stringent a code for the essentials of the faith?

[chesed]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

His shed blood being "sufficient for all mankind" works fine for me!  But is belief in the virgin birth essential for fellowship?

And you propose that before we good fellowship we all should subscribe to the Nicene Creed?  Is that simple enough or would that set up too stringent a code for the essentials of the faith?

I guess my main point is that even in the basic essentials, there would be disagreement.

Heck, 'I've seen disagreements over 'what is a born-again Christian?'.

(note: I would view the virgin birth as a requirement because 1. As a miracle, it infuriates theological liberals. and 2. It necessarily establishes the sinlessness of Christ. Since all mankind is born in sin, the virgin birth would exclude Jesus...You wouldn't want a Savior who Himself had a sinful nature, would you?)

Edited February 13, 2023 by chesed

[other one]

On 2/12/2023 at 2:29 PM, Vine Abider said:

Here's some fanciful thinking: What if one morning we all woke up and suddenly and fully realized that we were all truly one body in Christ and share the same Spirit, Lord and faith?

I'd go back to sleep knowing I was hallucinating or still asleep dreaming I was waking up.

However it is something to ponder as to how it will be when Jesus comes back and kills all the bad guys....

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, chesed said:

I guess my main point is that even in the basic essentials, there would be disagreement.

Heck, 'I've seen disagreements over 'what is a born-again Christian?'.

(note: I would view the virgin birth as a requirement because 1. As a miracle, it infuriates theological liberals. and 2. It necessarily establishes the sinlessness of Christ. Since all mankind is born in sin, the virgin birth would exclude Jesus...You wouldn't want a Savior who Himself had a sinful nature, would you?)

The idea is what if we just dropped all that divisive, nonsensical fringe stuff?  (although I know own own "stuff" is no where near nonsensical or fringe )

18 minutes ago, other one said:

I'd go back to sleep knowing I was hallucinating or still asleep dreaming I was waking up.

However it is something to ponder as to how it will be when Jesus comes back and kills all the bad guys....

How does killing "all the bad guys" help the ekklesia with practicing oneness?

What we're really talking about here is experiencing genuine love, God's love in and through us, for other believers . . . only that will cover a multitude of sins and all the perceived shortcomings and differences.