Four questions for YECs - (and a little history of creationism vs evolution)

[Sparks]

15 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

You're assuming that YE creationism, as invented by the Seventh-Day Adventists, is the only kind.   That's a major error.   Since many evolutionists, including Darwin, have believed that God created the first living things, they are also "creationists", who recognized God's hand in nature.   So you're wrong about that.

YE creationism as you have seen, depends on a massive misinterpretation of Bible.   Other forms, not so much.   Some OE creationist and theistic evolutionist ideas tend to accept God's word as it is.  All of us accept that God created all things.   The point is that YE creationists don't approve of the way He does it.

All your denial notwithstanding.   God has it right, and you have it wrong.

The SDAs didn't come up with Creationism.  ANYONE who believes what God said he did in Genesis is a Young Earth Creationist.  We are not the ones claiming a 24 hour day is trillions of years to try to suggest evolution is real.  You have no evidence of Darwinian Evolution, and even Darwin knew it.  As for Darwin, he was not a trained scientist, he was trained to be a pastor. 

Creationists simply believe the Bible.

[Sparks]

19 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Hmm... I just showed you cases of fraud with consequences.   But I'd be pleased to see a few of those "fraudulent white papers" without consequences.   You're on.

All you have to do is follow the link to Retraction Watch, I provided.  183, and no consequences.

[The Barbarian]

50 minutes ago, Sparks said:

The SDAs didn't come up with Creationism. 

They invented YE Creationism.   Would you like to see that again?

51 minutes ago, Sparks said:

We are not the ones claiming a 24 hour day is trillions of years to try to suggest evolution is real.

A couple of error there.  First, the universe is a few billion years old, based on the evidence.   Second, the age of the universe is of no concern to evolutionary theory.   If God had just poofed the world into being a few thousand years ago, evolution would work exactly as we see it working today.

 

[The Barbarian]

26 minutes ago, Sparks said:

All you have to do is follow the link to Retraction Watch,

 Could you give us some examples with checkable sources?  If it's so readily available, it shouldn't be hard to do that.

Edit:Took a look at the featured articles on your linked site; the first article listed is a study retracted by the author when she realized that someone had submitted several responses fraudulently.   The journal editor says there's no indication the author knew of this in advance.  

Watson said he does not believe McKitterick was aware of the survey fraud in advance or its perpetrator.

The second article is not about a specific case of fraud or error. but advice for whistleblowers. 

The third article lists a case where there were severe consequences for fraud:

Researcher loses PhD after admitting to fudging images

A university in Japan has revoked the doctoral degree of a former student found to have manipulated images and graphs in a dissertation and two published papers.

The fourth article listed shows that a researcher was punished for apparent plagiarism of images.

Texas dept. chair no longer in position amid university investigation and retraction

The chair of the Department of Pulmonary Immunology at the University of Texas at Tyler Health Science Center lost a paper last year after an institutional investigation found several issues with the data in the article.

Although the researcher, Ramakrishna Vankayalapati, is still identified as the chair on his online profile and the department’s website, he no longer holds that position

The fifth article listed says:

In 2015, the school revoked the PhD of cell scientist Haruko Obokata, due partly to plagiarism concerns, as we reported that year. Obokata was first author on a pair of controversial Nature papers describing an easy way to create stem cells with the so-called STAP method; both articles were retracted in 2014. 

These articles seriously undermine your assumptions.

43 minutes ago, Sparks said:

All you have to do is follow the link to Retraction Watch, I provided.  183, and no consequences.

The first four cases listed all mention consequences.   Did you even read any of it?

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by The Barbarian

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Sparks said:

No one knows exactly, but young Earth creationists believe it is about 6,000 years because of historical/legal reasons.  Evolutionists and atheists believe it is 60 trillion years old, because their instrumentation cannot be calibrated, and they cannot really measure distances to the stars using 3 different techniques that also don't work (one method works, but only at relatively short distances).

Thanks.  I was hoping for your estimation of the earth's age.

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Sparks said:

In a giant flood, it takes no time to be a wasteland.  As for the gap theory (whether you tell the legends that are not written or not), has no evidence.

OK, let's take another tack.  Do you believe the earth is only 6 days older than Adam, or much older, whether in years, or millennia?

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Sparks said:

The SDAs didn't come up with Creationism.  ANYONE who believes what God said he did in Genesis is a Young Earth Creationist.

Well, that's the whole issue, is it not?  I've heard scholars fluent in both Greek and Hebrew strongly deny any time gap between Gen 1:1 and 2, and I've heard scholars also fluent in both Greek and Hebrew strongly teach that there is a time gap and Gen 1:2ff is a summary of God's restoration of the planet, after something happened and trashed the earth.  

So there's that.

1 hour ago, Sparks said:

  We are not the ones claiming a 24 hour day is trillions of years to try to suggest evolution is real.  You have no evidence of Darwinian Evolution, and even Darwin knew it.  As for Darwin, he was not a trained scientist, he was trained to be a pastor. 

Creationists simply believe the Bible.

I believe Genesis 1 is a literal 6 day restoration of the planet, so God could place the human species on it.

That changes no doctrine of any kind, threatens nothing.  And agrees with science while at the same time totally rejects evolution in any form.

Edited May 20, 2023 by FreeGrace

[FreeGrace]

4 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Physics and radioassays indicate it's about it's a bit over 4.5 billion years old. 

https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/how-did-scientists-calculate-age-earth/

Thanks.  What say you about the age of the earth?

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Thanks.  What say you about the age of the earth?

I'll go with the evidence.   I'm not a geologist, but what I know about it, says about 4.5 billion years.

Edit: The key for us, is that Christians disagree on this point, which is in no way a salvation issue.   YE, OE, and gap believers are no less Christians than those who accept billions of years.

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by The Barbarian

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

I'll go with the evidence.   I'm not a geologist, but what I know about it, says about 4.5 billion years.

Edit: The key for us, is that Christians disagree on this point, which is in no way a salvation issue.   YE, OE, and gap believers are no less Christians than those who accept billions of years.

OK, thanks.  And I fully agree.  How do you square an OE with Gen 1 then, apart from a time gap or the YE view?