Predestination.

[FJK]

Could anyone that believes in this, or disbelieves in it, explain it to me?

 

I really don't know exactly what it is, all I know is from the few that I have met over the years that profess it and it seems to mean that only a certain select few who were chosen from the beginning will find themselves entering heaven and it is just plain foolish for anyone else to think they may to, or to preach the Gospel to those who haven't heard it since it won't make any difference in eternal outcomes for them at all whether they hear it or not.

This (my understanding) of it seems like it may be in serious error, I need more knowledge of some kind to form a truer understanding of it.

[farouk]

8 minutes ago, FJK said:

Could anyone that believes in this, or disbelieves in it, explain it to me?

 

I really don't know exactly what it is, all I know is from the few that I have met over the years that profess it and it seems to mean that only a certain select few who were chosen from the beginning will find themselves entering heaven and it is just plain foolish for anyone else to think they may to, or to preach the Gospel to those who haven't heard it since it won't make any difference in eternal outcomes for them at all whether they hear it or not.

This (my understanding) of it seems like it may be in serious error, I need more knowledge of some kind to form a truer understanding of it.

Rather than analyze unduly and worry, it's best simply to receive the words of Scripture.

The Lord Jesus said in John 6.37: "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

Ephesians 1 is also a chapter which deals clearly with the truth of election.

[OneLight]

@FJK ... sounds like you could use a little study about a doctrinal battle that has been going on for a very long time, Calvinism vs. Arminianism.   As for predestination, you should study Romans 8.

[Not me]

2 hours ago, FJK said:

Could anyone that believes in this, or disbelieves in it, explain it to me?

 

I really don't know exactly what it is, all I know is from the few that I have met over the years that profess it and it seems to mean that only a certain select few who were chosen from the beginning will find themselves entering heaven and it is just plain foolish for anyone else to think they may to, or to preach the Gospel to those who haven't heard it since it won't make any difference in eternal outcomes for them at all whether they hear it or not.

This (my understanding) of it seems like it may be in serious error, I need more knowledge of some kind to form a truer understanding of it.

Hello, I hold true that there are only two things that are predestined and that would be the  old nature and the new nature… The old nature predestined to destruction the new nature to glory and honor…. Whosoever has what at the time of their departure does one’s eternal placement make….

Hope it helps, to the pondering before God….

A fellow believer, Not me 

[FJK]

3 minutes ago, Not me said:

Hello, I hold true that there are only two things that are predestined and that would be the  old nature and the new nature… The old nature predestined to destruction the new nature to glory and honor…. Whosoever has what at the time of their departure does one’s eternal placement make….

Hope it helps, to the pondering before God….

A fellow believer, Not me 

Yeah, that's sort of the way I find myself leaning when I think about it, at least if I understand what you are saying.

But when I lean that way in my inner thoughts, I find myself developing more questions as a result.  And I know only one thing for sure, if I want the right answers I have to ask the right questions (something I don't find as easy as it sounds).

[Not me]

8 minutes ago, FJK said:

Yeah, that's sort of the way I find myself leaning when I think about it, at least if I understand what you are saying.

But when I lean that way in my inner thoughts, I find myself developing more questions as a result.  And I know only one thing for sure, if I want the right answers I have to ask the right questions (something I don't find as easy as it sounds).

I think you are seeking aright, always go by what the peace of Christ in your heart is teaching you, for that is your inner witness….

Be blessed in your seeking and listening…

 

A fellow follower, Not me 

[Michael37]

3 hours ago, FJK said:

Could anyone that believes in this, or disbelieves in it, explain it to me?

 

I really don't know exactly what it is, all I know is from the few that I have met over the years that profess it and it seems to mean that only a certain select few who were chosen from the beginning will find themselves entering heaven and it is just plain foolish for anyone else to think they may to, or to preach the Gospel to those who haven't heard it since it won't make any difference in eternal outcomes for them at all whether they hear it or not.

This (my understanding) of it seems like it may be in serious error, I need more knowledge of some kind to form a truer understanding of it.

You can search this whole site or search its individual forums, or even individual threads by putting in one word. All the posts with that word will show up in the results.

Predestination is guaranteed to yield more than enough results for your research and edification. 🔍 

[Neighbor]

Hi, I suggest all of the following  for your consideration:

It is not foreknowledge  of God nor predestination by God that is faulty, but the added on conclusion  that therefore there is no reason to go into all the world with the gospel of Jesus.

That last part is the reasoning  from (S0me) man's view, not   from God's.

What is called Calvinism is a multi faceted jewel. It's opponents gave five points  to be presented at the Synod of Dort. Those were not the points  of support by adherents of the Bible which does make a declaration of God's predestination.

The overall argument goes way back before  Calvin's and Arminius's followers.

 I am a Freewill Calvinist myself, saved by the mercy and grace of God alone, even while rejecting God up to the moment I could no longer muster up argument this side of sanity against the Holy Spirit's call made specifically to me to turn about from rejecting God altogether  and instead bow a knee to Jesus, my Lord ,God, and savior. 

I am predestined by God as well as having been foreknown of to God. I am called specifically by God  the Holy Spirit. I am to go  and share  of the gospel of Jesus with an unsaved world. I save no one, no one at all. That is the doing of God alone.

It is an awesome God we serve as soldiers of Christ Jesus, going wherever led, when led, doing so  as result of the faith of Jesus, not our own faith.

 

God saves out whom He will. Man saves no one.  God uses the foolish things, including Christians, in his  bringing about what He has foreknown from before the beginning and predestined.

His son willingly sacrificed of Himself to accomplish His Father's will, and that too  was, is, and will be - foreknown and predestined by  God the Father. Even the time of Jesus' return is known but to God the Father. Yet Jesus is God. so is the Holy Spirit.

If I do not believe Jesus I believe Him for the acts and that  is counted as faith within me that saves. I do not find that faith to be born by me, but in spite of me. 

Understanding is not a requirement for any of us. Fun yes necessary no. Our God is not a trickster. If you have been called  of the Holy Spirit to knowing Jesus is your Lord rejoice! Love God - Love one another.

 

[com7fy8]

7 hours ago, FJK said:

Could anyone that believes in this, or disbelieves in it, explain it to me?

 

If people believe in free will, they might think predestination means that God knew ahead of time who would freely choose to trust in Jesus (Ephesians 1:12), and He therefore predestined those people to be saved.

But there are people who believe predestination means God has made the choice of who will be saved.

Arminian people are one group who believe each human makes his or her choice in his or her own free will, and Calvinists are one group who believe God has decided who will be saved.

And people can use the Bible to support their "free will" belief, while others can use the Bible to support their belief that God has made the choice of who will be saved.

You consider it to not be logical to have predestination plus preaching, if people will be saved anyway.

But in case God does choose who will be saved, He also is personal and He pleases to share as family with His children. And so, even if He makes choices, He includes His children in doing what He has decided to do. Plus, He has us help people to get saved, so we can share as family with other saved people and prepare together for eternity with Jesus.

And He uses His word > His word is guaranteed to accomplish what He desires . . . doing exactly all He Himself pleases >

"'So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;

  It shall not return to Me void,

  But it shall accomplish what I please,

  And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.'" 

        (Isaiah 55:11)      

God's word does God's own meaning so better than we could know to choose, even at each moment.

And it is like how God said for there to be mankind. God spoke it, then He Himself had it happen the way He meant it. Adam did not choose to exist.

But Adam and we have indeed made choices, haven't we? And we now are reaping so much more, including emotionally, than we thought we were choosing earlier in our lives! We will reap > Galatians 6:7-8 > however we really have been becoming in this life. So we need, then, how Jesus changes us to become and love like Him so we reap in ourselves how we will be and love like Jesus, for eternity.

So we need, then, to constantly depend on God in us, and not trust in our own human will's ability. We need to stay attentive and submissive to God, all the time, how God has us grow and succeed in this >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

This is what we need to always be choosing. But it seems a number of people in their wills are not freely choosing to change in their character so we are and love like Jesus. So, I do not recommend that you depend on what you are humanly able to do in your own will, in any case.

"Therefore submit to God." (in James 4:7)

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by com7fy8

[AnOrangeCat]

15 hours ago, FJK said:

Could anyone that believes in this, or disbelieves in it, explain it to me?

As others have pointed out there's a whole lot that's been said on it on the forum, and it's been going on since before any of us were born and will continue until God reveals it to us. Even within the two camps there are degrees and differing views on how far it goes (like Calvinism vs Hypercalvinism), so read up on it and draw your own conclusions.

For my part I find the idea of God going "Yeah, you go to Heaven. You go to Hell." to be antithetical to the nature of God as described in the Bible. Ezekiel 33:11 tells us that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked and would prefer that they come to repentance. II Peter 3:9 echoes this sentiment. The Bible is full of people being presented with choices, as well as God presenting promises that are conditional. So why all the choices presented if there's no choice at all, and why would God act against His own clearly stated desires in the verses mentioned above? I've never heard an answer to it that satisfies me. So I personally interpret the mentions of predestination as meaning God knows well in advance and has prepared things for us before we ever get there, but that the choice of whether or not to go as the Holy Spirit prompts us is ours.

Like Neighbor mentioned Calvinism is multifaceted. Not all of it is about predestination. Ultimately both it and Arminianism are interpretations of scripture made by fallible men.