3 - Down, 1 to Go, Then 1 to Go

[Montana Marv]

3 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

All post trib means is When Christ returns it is as LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS TO rule

Post - trib is a position for the timing for the Harpozo

Pre-trib; mid-trib; pre-Wrath and Post-trib.  All are doctrinal issues for the timing of the Rapture.  Nothing to do with the Second Coming.

That is where are differences may be coming from.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[DeighAnn]

22 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Abraham's seed  will inhabit the Land.  Which seed.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Looks like you are asking the difference between the House of Judah and the House of Israel and the different jobs (promises, blessings and cursings) they were given.  Is that correct?  Would you like for me to go through the captivities and where they each went when released and who was scattered to go throughout the world a couple hundred years before and how they would be sifted amongst the heathen not to remember who they were but would become many nations a company of nations and a great nation and how when the sheep heard his voice THE CHURCH...and who went back to Jerusalem to build the temple for the 1st Advent who would carry the law and never forget who they were?   

[DeighAnn]

8 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Post - trib is a position for the timing for the Harpozo

Pre-trib; mid-trib; pre-Wrath and Post-trib.  All are doctrinal issues for the timing of the Rapture.  Nothing to do with the Second Coming.

That is where are differences may be coming from.

In Christ

Montana Marv

The ONLY catching up is the alive and remaining changed at the 2nd Advent.  

[DeighAnn]

9 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

  Nothing to do with the Second Coming.

Everything to do with the 2nd coming.  THE CHURCH AS A WHOLE IS NEVER BEING TAKEN TO HEAVEN.  IT IS BEING ASSEMBLED IN HEAVEN ONE MAN AT A TIME as everyone partakes of the flesh and blood and then dies, either going to heaven or hell, those to heaven to return with Him for the Lords Day.  

Didn't you ever wonder why there is nothing written about the church in heaven, or it ascending up there or what happens once it gets there or simply anything other than what it is on earth?  Or what it does there or why it goes there when GOD ALREADY has all those from the Old Covenant and every saved soul who has ever lived and died already up there.
 
Hasn't it ever bothered you that GOD speaks of the two Houses time and again as the two going back to one, as being HIS INHERITANCE, etc, but NEVER A WORD about the church?  

I would sure bother me
 

[Montana Marv]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

HOW DO YOU DO THAT?  BLOCK A PERSON FROM YOUR THREAD?

It used to be a feature a few years ago.  I remember using it a few times, and may have been blocked a few times also. It was to keep people who kept posting unwanted topics on ones thread from posting again, but only for that one thread.

That blocking mechanism may have been removed.  I do not see it listed.  Ignore or block poster was an option. I think it was a good option.  It saves lot of unwanted dogma on a thread.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

Whoa Woman, let's get back topic. Bit of a slang there.  I don't want this to be a "hot. hot" topic.  Look at what we are doing.. I like attention, but not that much.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Selah7]

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Two fatal errors I see.  One is that the Bridegroom comes in the sky/air as the Bridegroom, and him only.  The Harpozo.  Where in 1 Thes 4:16,17 do you see him coming to earth.  Not there, up in the air is where the joining takes place.

1 Thes. 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

We need to understand what subject is being discussed here.  Is it the return of Christ?  No.  Actually, we need to go back and read verse 13 to find the subject.

1 Thes. 4:13 (KJV)  But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep (in death), that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

So the subject here is “where are those who have died”?  Paul doesn't want us to be ignorant about where the dead are.  ….because the Sadducees were misinforming everyone, claiming that there is no such thing as a resurrection or life after death.

[14]  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

So if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, then we must also believe that our loved ones who have died, knowing Jesus, 
rose also (changed, of course, into their spiritual bodies) to be with Him, and so they are with Him.  In other words, when Jesus returns at the second advent, He will bring these folks with Him.

[16] (KJV) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

That's the purpose of Paul explaining this... "I don't want you to be ignorant concerning where the dead are."

So the "dead in Christ,” those who have died believing in the Lord, 
who are with Him now, will rise first when Christ returns.

Let's look again at 1 Thes. 4:17

[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The Greek word translated "air" is aer, which refers to our spiritual body, our "breath" of life body.  We gather back to Christ, alongside our brethren who have already passed away and are already in their spiritual bodies. Now we are going to gather with them and Christ in a group, we also being in our new spiritual bodies.  The phrase “in the clouds” means “in a group.”  When Jesus returns, we are going to gather together in a large group with the saints that are coming with Him.  Paul uses the same colloquial expression in Hebrews 12:1 when he speaks about a great cloud of witnesses, in other words, a large group of witnesses.  

Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Christ is returning to the Mount of Olives where He will stand, and this is where we gather to Him, not up in the sky in the clouds.  And…

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed (into spiritual bodies). For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

s e l a h

[NConly]

1 hour ago, Selah7 said:

shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:

The above appears to be believers in Christ or Christians

1 hour ago, Selah7 said:

Christ is returning to the Mount of Olives where He will stand, and this is where we gather to Him, not up in the sky in the clouds

The Jews who fled to the wilderness in the middle of the tribulation period will return to the Mount of Olives to meet the true Messiah. This appears not to be Christians

there is always a chance im wrong

[Montana Marv]

1 hour ago, Selah7 said:

1 Thes. 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Is this a Resurrection or an ascension.  Definitively not a Resurrection because those Alive in Christ go up, no death on their part.  This is an ascension of the whole of the Body of Christ in tandem. But when?  The dead fleshly bodies being reunited with their Spiritual Bodies.  Those Alive in Christ's physical bodies being transformed into a Spiritual and Physical body.

1 hour ago, Selah7 said:

[14]  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

So if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, then we must also believe that our loved ones who have died, knowing Jesus, 
rose also (changed, of course, into their spiritual bodies) to be with Him, and so they are with Him.  In other words, when Jesus returns at the second advent, He will bring these folks with Him.

No problem with this at all.  The question is when did they go up to the heavens.  And with that, why did those alive in Christ (not dead) go with them.  Not a Resurrection

1 hour ago, Selah7 said:

So the "dead in Christ,” those who have died believing in the Lord, 
who are with Him now, will rise first when Christ returns.

No they(N.T. Believers) have already gone up to meet the Bridegroom, later to come back with the Lord of Lord's and King of King's.  Those who arise at the 2nd Coming are of Israel to receive their allotted inheritance, which is the Land promised in the Abrahamic Covenant. according to Daniel 12:13.  And Christ will rule over them sitting on King Davids Throne.

2 hours ago, Selah7 said:

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed (into spiritual bodies). For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Again this happens in Stages.  The rest of the dead do not arise until after the 1000 years. (All the Just from Adam to the crucifixion, excluding those of Israel)  Their souls went to heaven at the Ascension, voiding Paradise in the earths center.  Their bodies reunite with their spiritual bodies at this time.

Christ First, the Bride Second, those under the Altar in Heaven Third, those of Israel Fourth, all before the 1000 year reign begins. Then those who ascended with Christ on high (excluding those of Israel) receive their immortal bodies at the end of the 1000 years along with those who did not follow Satan after the 1000 years.  In total all these have taken part in the Resurrection for the Just, or the First Resurrection.

 In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[truth7t7]

5 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

No they(N.T. Believers) have already gone up to meet the Bridegroom, later to come back with the Lord of Lord's and King of King's.  Those who arise at the 2nd Coming are of Israel to receive their allotted inheritance, which is the Land promised in the Abrahamic Covenant. according to Daniel 12:13.  And Christ will rule over them sitting on King Davids Throne.

"False" there is one future resurrection of "All" that have lived, and it takes place on (The Last Day)

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life

2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

Daniel 12:1-2KJV

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Edited March 24, 2023 by truth7t7